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Old 07-18-2015, 01:28 PM   #1
read
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Default why capo - guitar

So i was looking for song chords

and i get annoyed each time i see a capo as i have to translate those chords if i want to play them on keyboard

why is a capo needed? just for pitch purposes? I'm sure it can be played without capo....
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Old 07-18-2015, 01:30 PM   #2
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is it that you play same chord but an octave higher or something?

or their inversions?

when u use capo?
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Old 07-18-2015, 02:49 PM   #3
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A capo is usually used so that you can play open-position chords in a key where they don't fit. One might say that it's for lazy folks that don't want to learn barre chords, but sometimes it does make a real difference in the arrangement.

I personally can't deal with them. I can find any note or chord on the fretboard, transpose and invert and whatever in standard tuning. Retune the strings up or down and I'm fine. Put a capo on, though, and I'm completely lost. Trying to follow somebody else who's playing with a capo is even worse. Don't know what it is, but...
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Old 07-18-2015, 03:05 PM   #4
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Bar chords aint easy bro, and they don't sound the same as open chords, which is important for some music.

I love capos.
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Old 07-18-2015, 04:06 PM   #5
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I think the value of voicings is being overlooked, a capo serves far more purpose than as a "cheater" in the normal sense. I love them as one of my choices for that reason. I don't use it that often but when it's the right choice, it beats any other method short of sawing the guitar neck off at that spot and gluing a nut on. It expands the use of the instrument. They're no 'wronger' than using a slide, bar chord, open tuning or pick for that matter. An alien with 7 fingers on one hand, now that's a cheater.

And to add.. for anyone who approaches the instrument creatively, there is nothing that says that capo needs to cover all 6 strings.
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Old 07-18-2015, 04:22 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James HE View Post
Bar chords aint easy bro, and they don't sound the same as open chords, which is important for some music.

I love capos.
They are also an exquisite way of using the same guitar on two tracks. Also does a great job of creating the same mood a mandolin does, the list is pretty darn long as to what can be done with them. I can play bar chords and get around the neck just dandy as needed, that isn't the reason I might use a capo, it's strictly a musical, compositional or creative decision.
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Old 07-18-2015, 05:13 PM   #7
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I wouldn't be without one. I have two just in case one breaks down

But answering your keyboard question, why not just transpose? If you want 'D', just play in 'C' and raise it two semi-tones.
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Old 07-18-2015, 06:50 PM   #8
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Back when I was playing I don't think I ever used a capo. In fact I've never owned one. I really didn't think about it.

I can certainly understand why one would use one, and I have absolutely no problem with that.

But really and truly, using bar chords and the different inversions gives you a feel with the strings that you just can't get with a capo.

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Originally Posted by karbomusic View Post
They are also an exquisite way of using the same guitar on two tracks.
Yes I can understand that, and if I still played, I might possibly do that.
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Old 07-18-2015, 07:17 PM   #9
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But really and truly, using bar chords and the different inversions gives you a feel with the strings that you just can't get with a capo.
When using bar chords sounds best, that's what I use, when the capo sounds better that's what I use. You sort of hit the nail on the head though where some may think it is a second best replacement for something else but that's not why I (and I'm sure many) would use one. If I use one, it is because that sound can't be made any other way. I just pick the one that fits best at the time, whether that be bar chord, capo, alternate tuning, etc.
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Old 07-18-2015, 07:53 PM   #10
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Years ago when I was playing mainly electric guitar, I never used a capo.
When I started getting into acoustic guitar I was listening a lot to a guy who played mainly in DADGAD tuning.

I never had guitar lessons, so that was a bit of a revelation to me that people often used different tunings. Luckily he had good sleeve notes on one album with the tunings included

A big advantage with DADGAD for folk/trad stuff is that it has a "modal" sound where you can play melodies and keep the open strings ringing......and that means using a capo to retune to a key that fits your voice (or suits any other instruments like fiddles or whistles or smallpipes in different keys).

So you'll often find accomplished players like the guy I was listening to using capos, especially in folk and trad music. Other tunings like the lovely "bagpipe tuning" (DAAEAE) I got addicted to lately also need a capo for different keys.
_________

Using a capo with standard tuning :
I only recently settled on frequently using a capo on the 4th fret in standard tuning - the keys of B and E seem to suit my voice, and capo on the 4th fret gives good ol G shape as a base for songs in the key of B, and C shape as a base for songs in the key of E.
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Old 07-18-2015, 09:38 PM   #11
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Also there is the arrangement on an album-wide scale. Sometimes you write a song in open E or A or whatever and it's going swell but you REALLY want it between two songs on the album... and it just doesn't work out when you listen to them all in a row because the first is in F and the third in Bb. So you transpose all the parts up a semitone so that it goes F, F, Bb which has a nice cadential macro rhythm to it. In this case, the guitarists would put their capo on the first fret and the keyboard player would either relearn or use their transpose tool on their digital keyboard if they're really lazy and don't want to relearn the piece.
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Old 07-19-2015, 12:24 AM   #12
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I often use a capo on acoustic guitar:

- It allows me to play in a key that suits my voice,
- Using a capo higher up the neck gives me a differently 'coloured' sound to playing with barre chords, and
- As Karbo said, when recording two guitar parts, play one with a capo and one without (eg guitar 1 in key of G and guitar 2 capo-ed at the 3rd fret played in key of E)
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Old 07-19-2015, 01:34 AM   #13
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The capo is just another tool in the box. Sometimes you want to play G with a barre at the third fret, sometimes with a capo at the 7th. Sometimes both together. Some pieces can't be played without a capo, some would sound all wrong with a capo but right with a barre. I love them, I must say, and use them a lot. But in one of my bands I don't use a capo at all - it's just another tool. Choosing not to use it is like chosing to not use one of your fingers - why would you do that? If it is what's needed, grab it. If not, don't! Check out the partial capo too - just covers either the BEA notes or the EAC# notes. All your tired old chord changes suddently sound fresh and interesting. Brilliant!
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Old 07-19-2015, 05:52 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashcat_lt View Post
A capo is usually used so that you can play open-position chords in a key where they don't fit. One might say that it's for lazy folks that don't want to learn barre chords, but sometimes it does make a real difference in the arrangement.
Indeed - just think of "Here comes the Sun" played with a capo on the 7th fret I think. That bright sound would be hard to achieve without it I think. Cheating? No not really but I know it can make transcribing a bit confusing. No doubt very good practice though!
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Old 07-19-2015, 09:51 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by read View Post
is it that you play same chord but an octave higher or something?

or their inversions?

when u use capo?

i think i haven't received a clear answer regarding this yet.

also why do they usually put capo only up to 7th fret. as shown here

http://www.geneclark.com/capochordchart.html
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Old 07-19-2015, 10:18 AM   #16
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Generally a capo is used on an acoustic guitar. On most acoustic guitars you don't have very much access above the 12th fret. So with the capo at the 7th fret it leaves just enough room.


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Old 07-19-2015, 10:19 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by read View Post
i think i haven't received a clear answer regarding this yet.
Yes you have. To summarize:
1. Use a capo to allow finger positions that aren't possible in certain keys
2. Use a capo to permit additional voice leading techniques (like passing tones, neighbor tones) that is not possible when all fingers are needed for a barre chord
3. Use a capo to change tone in subtle ways

Etc.

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also why do they usually put capo only up to 7th fret. as shown here

http://www.geneclark.com/capochordchart.html
I don't think you're reading the chart properly if you think that most capos are applied at the 7th fret. That is simply the highest capo demonstrated on the chart. Keep in mind, the higher you go on the fretboard, the fewer options you have in terms of chord inversions, octave placement, etc.
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Old 07-19-2015, 10:21 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by read View Post
i think i haven't received a clear answer regarding this yet.
There's no one single answer.

Most people likely use the capo so they can play the same chords with their fingers, but in a key which suits their voice.
Others use it for artistic reasons like the different quality of sound when you play, say, a E chord with no capo or an E chord with capo on 4th fret (in which case you'd play a "C shape" to hear an E chord.

Others use it because they use alternative tunings like DADGAD, DAAEAE etc where the guitar might not be playable in their chosen key without having seven 12 inch fingers.

Quote:
also why do they usually put capo only up to 7th fret. as shown here

http://www.geneclark.com/capochordchart.html
For a few reasons :

1)The further up the neck you ho the more awkward it gets to fret chords.
2)The neck gets thicker, causing some capos to fit badly and fall off
3)The further up the neck you go the intonation can be innacurate, meaning you need to retune.
4)The guitar starts to sound weaker because it was designed to resonate better over lower frequencies.
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Old 07-19-2015, 10:24 AM   #19
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Does anyone else think the Capo/Chord chart referenced in post #16 is incorrect? Or am I just reading it wrong?

If you play a C chord with a capo at the first fret, its not a B (as the chart shows) it should be a C#, correct?


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Old 07-19-2015, 10:33 AM   #20
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Yes, indeed.
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Old 07-19-2015, 10:35 AM   #21
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But it can be understood an other way.
With capo 1, to get a C, you must play a B.
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Old 07-19-2015, 10:55 AM   #22
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When I was touring with a country band, I played acoustic guitar a lot with a capo (my first time using one). The idea is that you can play songs in any key and retain the sound of the open chords that you otherwise cannot get to sound properly when fretted (like any bar chords).

If you listen to a C or an E chord played in first position compared to its bar chord counterpart anywhere else along the fretboard, you'll notice that they have a far more open, bright and cheerful sound. The capo allows you to get that same sound along the fretboard. It's especially good for singing in various keys using the same open chord styling.
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Old 07-19-2015, 11:35 AM   #23
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I've been known to use one up to the 12 fret, no limits and I use on as much on electric. Just consider it as suggested earlier, expansion of choices.
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Old 07-19-2015, 12:58 PM   #24
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Capo is just a tool. It has appropriate uses. What I hate is transposers of songs where they get the chords wrong because they don't know anything about the fretboard beyond open chord shapes.

"capo 2"

Then it says "G"

So you play a G and it turns out it's not really a G, it's an A. Because that's the farkin' chord, you Muppet. The capo doesn't change that.

So put the chord down, not the chord shape.
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Old 07-19-2015, 02:52 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jerome_oneil View Post
Capo is just a tool. It has appropriate uses. What I hate is transposers of songs where they get the chords wrong because they don't know anything about the fretboard beyond open chord shapes.

"capo 2"

Then it says "G"

So you play a G and it turns out it's not really a G, it's an A. Because that's the farkin' chord, you Muppet. The capo doesn't change that.

So put the chord down, not the chord shape.
Amen to that. When I was learning guitar I had a Jethro Tull songbook. Ian Anderson is a very interesting acoustic guitarist and uses a capo extensively, playing quite involved and clever parts you simply can't do in normal tuning. However the dumb song book said the songs were in Eb or F without mentioning in fact they were played using C shapes with a capo. They still aren't simple but at least you can get there once you know that!

I use a capo on electric too BTW, and on one song I use a partial capo AND a normal one!
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Old 07-19-2015, 03:18 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jerome_oneil View Post
Capo is just a tool. It has appropriate uses. What I hate is transposers of songs where they get the chords wrong because they don't know anything about the fretboard beyond open chord shapes.

"capo 2"

Then it says "G"

So you play a G and it turns out it's not really a G, it's an A. Because that's the farkin' chord, you Muppet. The capo doesn't change that.

So put the chord down, not the chord shape.
Well perhaps they should write the Shape and then the actual chord in brackets or vice versa.

I never use books, but I'd imagine it's a good idea to tell a learner which Chord Shape to play....instead of expecting them to re-transpose the transposition in order to work it out!

I'm quite an experienced guitarist and I use a capo a lot, but I must admit if you placed the capo on the sixth fret and asked me to play a B flat major I'd have to think for a while....whereas if you told me play an E shape (and inform me that it's actually B flat major chord) I'd manage that immediately, without any swearing

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Old 07-19-2015, 03:22 PM   #27
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Old 07-19-2015, 04:54 PM   #28
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^^^^^^^ Master!
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Old 07-19-2015, 05:03 PM   #29
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Had to share the Beetles Medly Tommy Emmanuel was referring to:

http://youtu.be/W3XdIhnH0oY
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Old 07-19-2015, 05:05 PM   #30
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I always think back to an interview with Glen Campbell in which he attributed much of his early demand as a session player to his use of a capo at a time when very few players did.

He said that many a time the artist they were playing for in the session (or the arranger) would decide at the last moment to change the key of the song. All the other musicians would then descend into panic as they worked out the chord inversions and new fingerings for the song (bearing in mind in those days they were up against the clock) whilst all he would do was simply move the capo the required number of frets up or down the board and he was good to go!
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Old 07-19-2015, 06:21 PM   #31
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damn.... all this time and I thought it was the head of a mafia family
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Old 07-19-2015, 07:18 PM   #32
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Another use that I didn't see in prior postings is to make instrumental pieces reachable.

Fret spacing gets shorter as the pitch rises so a 4 fret stretch down at the 1st fret might not be reachable but playing a 4 fret stretch up the neck is doable.

I'm pretty sure that's why there is a capo used for this piece-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vV_Q5Og8cU
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Old 07-20-2015, 08:39 AM   #33
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Yeah, I shouldn't have said anything about cheating. I completely understand that there are a lot of good reasons to capo. Nobody has yet mentioned the way that the harmonic series sets up along the strings, and how fret position impacts what the pickups actually pick up, but it's also a not bad reason to use a capo on an electric.

The things just mess me up from both directions, though. I have used them at times, but they freak me out, so I usually end up retuning. In fact, I have several guitars in different tunings. I'm not saying there's really anything wrong with other people using them, unless they want me to play along without telling me the actual chords they're playing. :/
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Old 07-20-2015, 08:59 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashcat_lt View Post
... unless they want me to play along without telling me the actual chords they're playing. :/
I used to work with a guitar player who played left-handed but upside-down (like Hendrix and others).

Try figuring out wtf he's playing!



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Old 07-20-2015, 11:17 AM   #35
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Default what's wrong with variety?

Isn't it true to say generally that
if a guitarist relies on a capo a lot
they tend to use the same fingerings over and over
and that if a guitarist never uses a capo
they will tend to use different fingerings in different combinations?

[edit]
That may be one reason why folk and rock musicians use capos more than jazz guitarists, more interested in improv and variation.
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Old 07-20-2015, 11:17 AM   #36
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I used to work with a guitar player who played left-handed but upside-down (like Hendrix and others).

Try figuring out wtf he's playing!



When I was first learning to play, I taught my lefty friend at the same time. His mom forbid him to use left handed stringing because of Hendrix, but I think that's a myth. I got pretty used to looking at the strings upside down and figuring out how he might have to finger certain things. My left handed brother (who actually plays left hand strung) gets upset when I pick up his guitar and play, because he can't do the same with mine. Funnily enough, I can't play a mandolin or cello very well, even though they're kind of the same thing.
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Old 07-20-2015, 11:34 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msore View Post
Isn't it true to say generally that
if a guitarist relies on a capo a lot
they tend to use the same fingerings over and over
and that if a guitarist never uses a capo
they will tend to use different fingerings in different combinations?
It doesn't necessarily follow. A capo really only impacts open chords. If you're going to play out of 1st position at all, you still have to fret everything like you normally would.

Bluegrass players play the shit out of a capo because bluegrass forms are fairly fixed and it's really easy to adjust for a vocalist that way, so that's an example of "the same fingerings" but that doesn't hold for every genera. When Leo Kottkie uses a capo, you can rest assured he's still going to be all over the fretboard.
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Old 07-20-2015, 11:41 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PigPenofsoftware View Post
Another use that I didn't see in prior postings is to make instrumental pieces reachable.

Fret spacing gets shorter as the pitch rises so a 4 fret stretch down at the 1st fret might not be reachable but playing a 4 fret stretch up the neck is doable.

I'm pretty sure that's why there is a capo used for this piece-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vV_Q5Og8cU
Thanks for linking to that guitarist. I noticed on another piece by him that he was capoing at the FIRST fret, which makes me wonder why, since that is not very far from open, and was filled with bar-chords.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1WqYDq4EnM
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Old 07-20-2015, 12:28 PM   #39
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... that he was capoing at the FIRST fret
That capo is not on the 1st fret, it is actually on the nut. He must be storing his capo there for quick access.

Enjoy.


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Old 07-20-2015, 01:04 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msore View Post
Isn't it true to say generally that
if a guitarist relies on a capo a lot
they tend to use the same fingerings over and over
and that if a guitarist never uses a capo
they will tend to use different fingerings in different combinations?

[edit]
That may be one reason why folk and rock musicians use capos more than jazz guitarists, more interested in improv and variation.
No - it's true that many guitarists do that.

But, as a few people have pointed out, it's also true that many technically accomplished guitarists use capos for other reasons.

One reason is to be able to play arrangements that otherwise would be impossible, or would not have the intended effect.

For example, DADGAD is a popular tuning.
Played without a capo, the basic "D" sounding chord is in fact only firsts and fifths.....the G string is fretted on the second fret to give DADAAD.

The intention is mainly to use the Ds and As as drones for an accompanying melody line.

Now suppose you want that drone + melody capability but in F instead of D?

You either have to use a capo or retune your guitar.
To retune your guitar + 3 or + 4 semitones isn't often advisable.
You'd actually have to use very light strings, and even then they'd be overstretched and too much tension would be put on the guitar.

So what to do?
Keep the same strings and use a capo.

The same applies for other tunings like DAAEAE where the whole point is having ringing "open" strings available, as well as having chords or intervals that are not possible in other tunings.

_____

After all, "standard" guitar tuning isn't a universal law - it's only a compromise between playing in and maximising certain musical styles, and the physics of vibrating strings and their useable tension.

Standard tuning isn't suitable for all musical styles.

Last edited by viscofisy; 07-20-2015 at 01:13 PM.
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