Old 02-21-2013, 02:18 AM   #1
ivansc
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Default Had a look at logic last night

and realised that the main thing that makes a lot of the commercial DAW softs look "good" is that they are very clear in ultra high res.

2x24" monitors and the user had a ton of information spread across the two screens, all very clear and yet very very compact.

He was only running 1900x1200 or whatever te Mc equivalent is, but it was all very small but VERY legible & the plugin interfaces came up with a larger GUI which I felt was appropriate.

So

Maybe our wonderful band of themers could focus on making things really clear at high res and seeing what they can come up with?
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Old 02-21-2013, 02:40 AM   #2
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and realised that the main thing that makes a lot of the commercial DAW softs look "good" is that they are very clear in ultra high res.

2x24" monitors and the user had a ton of information spread across the two screens, all very clear and yet very very compact.

He was only running 1900x1200 or whatever te Mc equivalent is, but it was all very small but VERY legible & the plugin interfaces came up with a larger GUI which I felt was appropriate.

So

Maybe our wonderful band of themers could focus on making things really clear at high res and seeing what they can come up with?
Ive been trying somehow to achieve a similar feeling here however there are quite a few dealbreakers.

Firstly Reaper has many more buttons/elements on the mcp and tcp to have a full functionality than Logic.

Secondly Logic uses high quality Tiff image files for the interface, which results in almost 400MB of images.

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Old 02-21-2013, 04:11 AM   #3
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For me the beauty is I can omit certain things from my layouts but still retain the functionality via right click.
I know this is sort of counter intuitive for some but for me it`s a fair trade off between getting a clear looking theme and easily accessing every single feature.

This was the very reason I tried to make my own theme, some things I just simply did not need to see and for my own workflow I like things to be as simple and fluid as possible.

Again this comes back to the beauty of reaper, the fact that all this functionality and customization is right at everyones finger tips means you can make it how you like

Taste is purely subjective after all, you can only hope other people have similar tastes and might like and be able to use your stuff.


I do agree though with what you say about logic, hence the reason the ui has remained largely unchanged.

Not too sure about the new cubase though, I`m not keen on the horizontally stretchy mixer, seems a bit funky to me.

I think a decent look would be a cross between logic for clarity, ableton for simplicity and pro-tools for ergonomics.

I think janne`s latest universe theme he`s working on has pretty much nailed the ultimate layout for me, so simple and clear.
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Old 02-22-2013, 12:01 AM   #4
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Kes - the only reason I mentioned Logic was that it WAS the first UI I had seen that actually impressed me, even if my previous experiences with Logic had been poor.
I have used and still own several of the major DAW products and to me there is little to choose between them visually, including Reaper.

But the Logic "look" is nice. Maybe it IS mostly the graphics file format.....
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Old 02-22-2013, 03:08 AM   #5
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Maybe our wonderful band of themers could focus on making things really clear at high res and seeing what they can come up with?

I'm new to theming but i try something like that, with a complementary between mcp and tcp not twice the same button and as clear as possible..

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Old 02-22-2013, 04:26 AM   #6
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Your text and meters look great!
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Old 02-22-2013, 04:39 AM   #7
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I've shopped hi-res images from Logic into "ReaperLogic" themes and, whilst still looking drop dead stunning, they still lacked a certain "slickness" that Logic has going on in its GUI ... and it is very hard to put a thumb on a single culprit.

Sure, 400mb of tiff files rendered within an inch of their lives, couldn't hurt to improve and help achieve this slickness. But I'm not so sure that that is the magic bullet.

I've worked extensively with Cubase and Nuendo for well over a decade... right up to the latest versions, and they both seem to have a "blandness" in the GUI, to me.
Familiarity breeds contempt.

Conversely, Logic and ProTools look "exotic" to me (even very old versions) ... maybe if i worked with them for 10 years they too would look bland.


Having said that, I've never worked with Live and its GUI looks like a total train wreck
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Old 02-22-2013, 05:20 AM   #8
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Your text and meters look great!
for the moment meter or few other things have been made by White Tie from his colonial thème...

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Old 02-22-2013, 05:43 AM   #9
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Conversely, Logic and ProTools look "exotic" to me (even very old versions) ... maybe if i worked with them for 10 years they too would look bland.
Yes, logic does have a certain something about it that makes it desirable to use, my friend brought his new macbook round with logic and damn it looked sharp and sexy!
He`s very excited for when logic fully supports retina.

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Having said that, I've never worked with Live and its GUI looks like a total train wreck
Yeah, I`ve used live in the past and while it`s fine for creating and stuff It always felt cramped when it came to mixing duties, just didnt work.
They should at least make the mixer undockable.
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Old 02-22-2013, 10:54 AM   #10
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serenityjazz, is that theme available anywhere?
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Old 02-22-2013, 11:28 AM   #11
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Maybe our wonderful band of themers could focus on making things really clear at high res and seeing what they can come up with?
The answer is simple and old, apparently themes need to be SVG. I think the default theme is SVG. This is, for practical reasons just now, out of reach for home themers.
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Old 02-22-2013, 11:35 AM   #12
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excuse my french but what is SVG ?

@compasspnt: not yet it's a work in progress...
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Old 02-28-2013, 10:28 AM   #13
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Some of my biggest issues with themes which LOOK amazing
but don't FUNCTION amazing are:

- TCP/MCP text font size (can you see it without squinting?)

- TCP/MCP text display length (how much text you can see on one track?)

- Button state/configuration (contrast between "rec-arm_on" vs "rec arm_off")

- Color-coding things to make them easier to differentiate (I/O panel, etc.)

- Colored border around TCPs & MCPs to denote selection
(the theme 'Unempty Minima 73' does this amazingly well.)
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Old 02-28-2013, 10:48 AM   #14
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excuse my french but what is SVG ?
Excuse my spanish but SVG is a vector based graphics format.

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Old 03-22-2013, 03:19 AM   #15
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There is not one, but many things that make Apple products stand out from the crowd when it comes to design. Simplicity comes first, then design strategy (ux and usability) - every element from that interface is in a good relation to everything else providing a very well thought workflow. Balance is another important aspect: locations, size, colors, are all in mathematical balance.

And maybe the most important aspect is the design philosophy, and I couldn't switch on Mac because of it. Apple is, at any time, willing to sacrifice functionality over design. And for an advanced user this can be really frustrating.
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Old 03-22-2013, 06:26 AM   #16
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There is not one, but many things that make Apple products stand out from the crowd when it comes to design. Simplicity comes first, then design strategy (ux and usability) - every element from that interface is in a good relation to everything else providing a very well thought workflow. Balance is another important aspect: locations, size, colors, are all in mathematical balance.

And maybe the most important aspect is the design philosophy, and I couldn't switch on Mac because of it. Apple is, at any time, willing to sacrifice functionality over design. And for an advanced user this can be really frustrating.
But Logic looked fantastic way before Apple bought it. I still open up my pc version of 5.3 every now and then just to gaze upon it's smooth, clutter-free, harmonious design before reluctantly skulking back to Reaper, where I can do all the things I need to do in this day and age (and it doesn't crash 75% of the time)
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Old 03-22-2013, 07:08 AM   #17
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But Logic looked fantastic way before Apple bought it.
Apple did a good job uncluttering the interface and choosing a more relaxing colour scheme. I like the new version too, it may be my favorite looking DAW at present.


Logic 5.5:



Logic 9:



fwiw I was using Logic from about version 2 to 5.5 and haven't touched it much since apple took over. I used it at a friends house and managed to get around it pretty easily. Of course there is some nostalgia looking at the new interface, so I'm probably biased. I still enjoy using REAPER more, and my friend eventually found it on his own (I didn't pimp the software) and uses it instead of Logic.
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Old 03-22-2013, 07:58 AM   #18
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Logic Audio Hell!!!

That brings back some memories. The first DAW I ever tried back in 1999. I was convinced after the experience that it just wasn't possible to mix on a computer yet - until someone showed me Protools. Night, meet day.

The best part was holding your breath while you printed the midi automation track(s) - their crude form of automation. You had to choose between printing these midi tracks for 'touch' automation if you wanted to record your fader moves vs. drawing and clicking points manually. Try to modify anything in the midi track with the manual tools (and they let you as it was intended to work) and all your automation instantly corrupts and no longer works.

Constantly saving after the smallest milestones.

Then all the manual trial and error plugin latency compensation...

Apple cleaned up the most outrageous bugs but it was still Logic Audio Hell last time I checked (v9).
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Old 03-22-2013, 09:01 AM   #19
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But Logic looked fantastic way before Apple bought it. I still open up my pc version of 5.3 every now and then just to gaze upon it's smooth, clutter-free, harmonious design before reluctantly skulking back to Reaper, where I can do all the things I need to do in this day and age (and it doesn't crash 75% of the time)
Well, to me nothing was logic when i fired up Logic5 back in the days. I found cubase to be much more usable in every way. Then when i found Reaper, everything was where i felt it should be and worked as if this is the way it supposed to be.

Back to logic5: it's easy to look good when you only have 2 buttons on a track.

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Old 03-22-2013, 10:24 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by mikeroephonics View Post
Some of my biggest issues with themes which LOOK amazing
but don't FUNCTION amazing are:

- TCP/MCP text font size (can you see it without squinting?)

- TCP/MCP text display length (how much text you can see on one track?)

- Button state/configuration (contrast between "rec-arm_on" vs "rec arm_off")

- Color-coding things to make them easier to differentiate (I/O panel, etc.)

- Colored border around TCPs & MCPs to denote selection
(the theme 'Unempty Minima 73' does this amazingly well.)

While, Reaper offers insane customizability, I too agree, it gets difficult to read the fonts/text clearly. On a dual 27", sitting about a feet away, there are times you have to lean in to read a parameter or value. Also, my vision isn't perfect, but had no such trouble with Logic.

Track Name, Insert Name visibility is another area which could use clarity on the MCP.

On the Mac, I often use Control Zooming to get a better view.


I honestly wouldn't mind a 400MB HD or Retina version of Reaper download for general studio use
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Old 03-25-2013, 09:45 AM   #21
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Reaper theme for big monitors
http://www.houseofwhitetie.com/reape..._imperial.html

haven't tested.. because I don't have big monitor yet... but I guess many buttons are still small ?
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Old 03-25-2013, 10:53 AM   #22
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I still thing Pro Tools 9's GUI is the best....
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Old 03-26-2013, 02:24 AM   #23
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Reaper theme for big monitors
http://www.houseofwhitetie.com/reape..._imperial.html

haven't tested.. because I don't have big monitor yet... but I guess many buttons are still small ?
More than button sizes, I think the text needs clarity. I'm running Dark Imperial for my current sessions on a dual 27" setup.



Quote:
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I still thing Pro Tools 9's GUI is the best....
Protools did a good job revamping their design in 9, but personally, I find Protools on the whole a bit uninspiring. Everything is crystal clear though.
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Old 03-26-2013, 03:38 AM   #24
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More than button sizes, I think the text needs clarity. I'm running Dark Imperial for my current sessions on a dual 27" setup.
if you have large monitors.. have you tried to increase the size of UI elements in General options Advanced settings? it's hidden there...
"Scale UI elements of track/mixer panels, transport etc"
maybe it helps
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Old 03-26-2013, 09:49 AM   #25
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Protools did a good job revamping their design in 9, but personally, I find Protools on the whole a bit uninspiring. Everything is crystal clear though.
I just find the color scheme super easy on the eyes for long sessions, the Logic screen shots are nice tho!
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Old 03-26-2013, 01:06 PM   #26
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Reapers flexibility is its biggest problem for the UI design.

One of the reasons I keep coming back to the default theme of Reaper is that I cannot be bothered to compromise on how well I can access features in Reaper at any given time.

I need access to the FX button in a clear fashion and some themes fail at that. I need to see the automation state of each track easily and a LOT of themes screw that up fantastically because the theme author probably has little use for those features.


Logics GUI is flexible and has lots of features trimmed away in many areas compared to Reaper.

In Reaper you don't have to go anywhere else but the arrangement view to setup and perform recording, mixing or editing.

If you want to emulate the design philosophy behind some of the other DAWs, you'll have to cut away features from Reapers two main views, the arrangement and the mixer.

Also remember that you can create static layouts as well in Reaper, like Protools has in its mixer with its laughable two MCP layouts . It's just that most themers have chosen to create dynamic ones and more of them.

Take your pick.
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Old 03-27-2013, 08:09 AM   #27
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IS THIS BIG ENOUGH or should I go double or triple the size?



lol, just kidding... I love you airon
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Old 03-27-2013, 08:13 AM   #28
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Protools did a good job revamping their design in 9, but personally, I find Protools on the whole a bit uninspiring. Everything is crystal clear though.
Ya know what I find funny? Some of the most expensive applications look like dog shit in terms of fancy "inspiring" interfaces... but as you say things are at least clear... it makes you wonder if the real pros actually give a shit about such things or is it really mostly marketing. obviously DAWs are a bit different because you have marketing goons stand behind you as you mix, but the actual producer/mixers typically just want stuff to work
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Old 04-01-2013, 03:52 PM   #29
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pro daws are supposed to be standard so you're not all like WTF? when you go from a studio in LA to one in NY.

as far as crystal clear, there's nothing clearer than SVG. i forgot why SVG is supposed to be impossible on osx or windows 8. theres a reason though for the impossibility i imagine.
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Old 04-02-2013, 12:08 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by reapercurious View Post
apparently themes need to be SVG. I think the default theme is SVG.
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as far as crystal clear, there's nothing clearer than SVG. i forgot why SVG is supposed to be impossible on osx or windows 8.
You need to immediately stop listening to whoever has been telling you all this stuff, due to potentially life threatening levels of wrongness...
  • Nonsense
  • No it isn't
  • No, that's meaningless, its just a vector file format
  • svg works in all modern browsers on all modern OSs, for a start. look
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