Old 07-07-2019, 03:14 PM   #1
sjs94704
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Default ReaComp .............. It's all in the make-up gain.....

Hey, All:

I have been struggling a lot with trying to get my vocals to sound right.
I have been watching a lot of YouTube videos about compression and have seen a lot said about make-up gain.

On a lot of the videos on this topic the people are using other DAWs and the compression plugins they are using has a make-up gain knob.

However, looking at ReaComp, it does NOT have one. I have been very confused about this part because very little is actually talked about it in the videos I have seen, or, it might be that I was just not understanding what they were saying. The point is, I wish ReaComp had a make-up gain knob like so many other compressor plugins. I suppose there might be a reason for this. I've seen the checkbox there the whole time but just never have seen any videos that spend very much time if at all talking about it.

I just so happened to come across one today that touched on it for about 30 seconds .......

I am glad that I finally figured it out because it makes my waveform much more manageable and needs almost no dynamic vocal processing whereas before, my waveforms were all over the place! it also help a bunch with the volume of my vocal track, including the delay and reverb.......

So, just goes to show you (and me) how just one setting, be it a check box or a switch, or whatever can make all the difference in how things can sound on your tracks!!!!
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Old 07-07-2019, 03:57 PM   #2
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Or you can just forget compression and just ride the faders with volume Automation and also preserve all the beautiful transients at the same time.

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/bruc...sion-kids.html


https://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-m...kids-quot.html
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Old 07-07-2019, 04:19 PM   #3
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Quote:
On a lot of the videos on this topic the people are using other DAWs and the compression plugins they are using has a make-up gain knob.

However, looking at ReaComp, it does NOT have one.
hi Steven, actually ReaComp does have an "auto makeup gain", you can find it just below the meters.
It isn't something you can adjust but I find very useful, and how it works will depend on your other adjustments
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Old 07-07-2019, 04:46 PM   #4
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hi Steven, actually ReaComp does have an "auto makeup gain", you can find it just below the meters.
It isn't something you can adjust but I find very useful, and how it works will depend on your other adjustments
Hey, Tod:
I went back and read my original message and I guess I was not entirely clear. What I was trying to say is that I did finally discover this auto make-up gain checkbox just a couple days ago! And, it has simply changed everything about how my vocals sound!
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Old 07-07-2019, 04:52 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coachz View Post
Or you can just forget compression and just ride the faders with volume Automation and also preserve all the beautiful transients at the same time.

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/bruc...sion-kids.html


https://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-m...kids-quot.html
Yeah, I agree and something can be said bout that, but that's something that needs to be done on a track by track basis, and back in the old days that's all we had.

Also the many video's about proper recording technics, such as mic placement, vocal training, along with many other things, has improved the understanding of recording today.

Vocals are the most difficult and prominent when you consider the aspect of recording and mixing, and that's where using envelopes can do a lot.
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Old 07-07-2019, 05:16 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tod View Post
Yeah, I agree and something can be said bout that, but that's something that needs to be done on a track by track basis, and back in the old days that's all we had.

Also the many video's about proper recording technics, such as mic placement, vocal training, along with many other things, has improved the understanding of recording today.

Vocals are the most difficult and prominent when you consider the aspect of recording and mixing, and that's where using envelopes can do a lot.
And you can also eq individual syllables and add fx to very short phrases with automation.
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Old 07-07-2019, 07:31 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sjs94704 View Post
Hey, Tod:
I went back and read my original message and I guess I was not entirely clear. What I was trying to say is that I did finally discover this auto make-up gain checkbox just a couple days ago! And, it has simply changed everything about how my vocals sound!
Good for you Steven, keep in mind too when adjusting a compressor listen for a kind of a pumping
sound, you'll probably want to start backing off at that point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coachz View Post
And you can also eq individual syllables and add fx to very short phrases with automation.
Yeah, your right Coachz, there's an envelope for every thing now days. In all honesty I'm pretty
conservative with the envelopes. Even back when I was producing songwriters and stage musicians, I used
them when I had to, sometimes more then I should have. One thing I can say coming from the tape days,
I certainly appreciate what we have now.
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Old 07-07-2019, 08:28 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coachz View Post
Or you can just forget compression and just ride the faders with volume Automation and also preserve all the beautiful transients at the same time.

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/bruc...sion-kids.html


https://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-m...kids-quot.html
So, I just went and read at least most of these threads (at least enough to get the idea). I then pulled up my song "Evergreen" by Barbra Streisand.

My Lead Vocal Started out with:

1. EQ
2: reaComp
3: Waves Tune Real-Time

I just cut the reaComp out of the chain and am getting a good sound. The waveform is not too crazy all over the place

I'm guessing that I should ride the faders only if and when I think I should, right? I pulled up a few videos on 'Riding the Faders', and in the examples they used, it may have been for the sake of providing an example, but, the spots where they were riding the faders there were very obvious volume differences.
.
.
.
.
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Old 07-07-2019, 08:39 PM   #9
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ReaComp has Wet gain slider to compensate gain reduction post compression, which basically the same as make up gain.

I never use auto make up gain because on many cases it would overcompensate the post reduction gain higher than input signal.
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Old 07-07-2019, 09:08 PM   #10
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Since EQ on the vocal is what is left after this discussion, I thought I'd show you what I'm doing with it.

Awhile back I had picked up MTurboReverb from Melda Productions. It is an awesome Reverb. Tod has taught me a lot about how to use it correctly.

They also have an EQ plugin that is FREE with purchase of another plugin called 'MEqualizer'. I use it a lot because I like the interface. It is easy to understand (at least for me)

The point in sharing this with you is... here is the PRESET EQ for the vocal ...
.

.
.
.

However, after watching yet another video, one guy EQed his Lead Vocal this way and when I tried it, it sounds a bit brighter...
.

.
.
Yes, yes..... I know..... there is no one way to do this, I just thought I'd share this.
.
.
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Old 07-08-2019, 04:27 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sjs94704 View Post
So, I just went and read at least most of these threads (at least enough to get the idea). I then pulled up my song "Evergreen" by Barbra Streisand.

My Lead Vocal Started out with:

1. EQ
2: reaComp
3: Waves Tune Real-Time

I just cut the reaComp out of the chain and am getting a good sound. The waveform is not too crazy all over the place

I'm guessing that I should ride the faders only if and when I think I should, right? I pulled up a few videos on 'Riding the Faders', and in the examples they used, it may have been for the sake of providing an example, but, the spots where they were riding the faders there were very obvious volume differences.
.
.
.
.
The way I do it as I get all of the other parts of the song working including Rhythm Section solos and miscellaneous percussion sounds. Everything except background harmonies and lead vocals. Then I put the fader in latch mode for the vocal and ride it until it is exactly sitting just above the mix slightly and then I do the same thing for the background vocals putting them wherever they need to sound right.

This way your vocal sits just on top of the mix slightly and it's always peeking out without ever being too loud. In latch mode I can set it up over certain sections and just keep looping over until I get it exactly how I want it and then move on to the next section and loop over that if needed.

Usually I do a first run-through with no loops and latch mode. Then for small tweaks I switch to touch mode because then after I let go of the fader it goes right back to where it was. I also have a toolbar on the left side right next to the tracks that have buttons for all the modes and more so that all I have to do is Select my track and select the button for the mode and I'm good to go and then when I'm done I select the button for read mode and I'm back and everything doing it's magic.

I also have my keyboard shortcut letter R set to the reaper action to reduce the number of points in an envelope and as I go through Section by section I will highlight all of the envelope points and keep pressing R to get just the points I need. Reaper writes a ton of envelope points and it's just way too many for me. I wish there was a setting to cause Reaper to write many fewer points during automation

Use your ears and mix at the volume you think others will be listening to your mix at and you'll get it right every time.
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Old 07-08-2019, 06:06 AM   #12
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I just went and played back a practice run through on of my songs and it sounds like I will need to ride the faders on the music itself vs. the vocal.

I say this because I have it set so that the music sits at about -18 at the loudest parts of the song. So, that means that I'll have to bring up the volume of the softer parts of the song.

I guess that now that I am paying attention to that I can hear it more.
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Old 07-08-2019, 06:36 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sjs94704 View Post
I just went and played back a practice run through on of my songs and it sounds like I will need to ride the faders on the music itself vs. the vocal.

I say this because I have it set so that the music sits at about -18 at the loudest parts of the song. So, that means that I'll have to bring up the volume of the softer parts of the song.

I guess that now that I am paying attention to that I can hear it more.
I don't worry about the DB levels on the individual tracks but instead just get the mix sounding the way I want and then on the master effects I adjust the gain up or down to get that lufs level that I want. the tracks themselves are not going to clip and have plenty of hheadroom so all I worry about is setting my output limiter to -0.2 DB and adjusting the master effects gain as needed
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Old 07-08-2019, 07:31 AM   #14
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Quote:
I just cut the reaComp out of the chain and am getting a good sound. The waveform is not too crazy all over the place.
Hi Steven, first let me say that compression will not hurt you vocal or make it sound crazy if it's setup right. Below is a picture of ReeaComp. Notice the settings on it:

Attack: around 3ms
Release: 100 to 150 (this is just a round about figure)
Ratio: set it at 4 for now.
Threshold: When set to 0.0dB, the compressor does nothing, it just passes the signal unaltered.

So load ReaComp back in your vocal track and put it after the EQ as you had it. Then set it up as shown in
the picture and remember to check "Auto make-up".

Now solo your vocal, hit play and slowly start bringing the threshold down as you listen. The first thing
you should hear is the softer parts of you vocals coming up and smoothing out the vocal. Then as you continue
lowering the threshold, it will appear to get louder and eventually you should hear kind of a pumping sound
which means you've gone too far.

So bring the threshold up again to 0.0dB and as you play the vocal, adjust the threshold down to where it sounds good to you.



Quote:
Originally Posted by sjs94704 View Post
I just went and played back a practice run through on of my songs and it sounds like I will need to ride the faders on the music itself vs. the vocal.

I say this because I have it set so that the music sits at about -18 at the loudest parts of the song. So, that means that I'll have to bring up the volume of the softer parts of the song.

I guess that now that I am paying attention to that I can hear it more.
I don't have time right now Steven, but as soon as I can, I will show you how to adjust the backing instruments
through out the song using a VCA.
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