Old 04-01-2014, 06:34 PM   #321
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Lol. Yeah, they seem to be fixing a lot of stuff quickly, which is good. They fixed the PDC issue already, which was (apparently) just too low a max delay ceiling or something.
Its because they have no other choice if they want to survive. I hope they can keep such speed when they become bold company like Ableton today....but thats another story...
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Old 04-01-2014, 06:44 PM   #322
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Anyway, missing features aside, that Java UI really is a thing of beauty, imo, the way the windows are designed.

If it was designed for linear recording and editing and mixing I'd be giving it a really hard look towards buying it but... alas... it's not.

Detaching windows (triple screen profile below) gives you full app windows with everything up top just like the main window including the full transport, all the menus, the time display, and the song tabs. It displays like every detached window is a full application window.

Great f'ing UI design... imo... mmv.

Here's the detached mixer with the browser also on it.



Here's the detached audio editor with the full Inspector on it and with track automation lanes in the same window.

This puts the lack of arrange track vertical re sizing in a bit of a different context, because most others don't actually do anything like this.

(Note: Link to a big full screen editor pic with clip gain and automation)



Here's the detached key editor, with the full Inspector and with all automation in the same window.



Notice that the full browser is in both windows below at the same time, the arrange window and the detached mixer. No need to go looking for the browser,
it exists and operates separately in every relevant window. Also, in the other two windows above the Inspectors are independent.

I was wondering if the browser detaches but in this design it actually doesn't have to because it's everywhere already.


Last edited by Lawrence; 04-01-2014 at 08:42 PM.
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Old 04-01-2014, 06:54 PM   #323
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Another day, another update (1.0.5)...
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Lol. Yeah, they seem to be fixing a lot of stuff quickly, which is good.
All software whether it be a DAW, website or word processor... The development/iteration/activity goes through the roof and is higher just after release than at any other time during it's entire lifecycle (typically). It's an expected and natural cycle. Just an FYI.

No dog, no fight it just caught my programmer's eye.
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Old 04-01-2014, 07:02 PM   #324
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All software whether it be a DAW, website or word processor... The development/iteration/activity goes through the roof and is higher just after release than at any other time during it's entire lifecycle (typically). It's an expected and natural cycle. Just an FYI.

No dog, no fight it just caught my programmer's eye.
True.

The big difference there - as anyone ever involved in a closed beta can likely attest to - is actually pushing those things out so fast. More typically companies would hold back and would have maybe put all of that stuff that's up to 1.05 now into the 1.01, 5 days later. It would be the exact same time period to get to the exact same place it's at now, but it would have felt a little slower because of the slightly longer pause and the lower version number.

I mean, the thing hasn't been out a full week yet so any published update already in a week is perceived as a fast update, even if it's just one.

So them pushing them out as soon as they're ready is probably a good sign... and it makes people happy and gives a perception that's good.

Last edited by Lawrence; 04-01-2014 at 07:22 PM.
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Old 04-01-2014, 07:20 PM   #325
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P.S. @ Karbo, obviously "spying" on that UI was mostly a non-starter.
I was just cruising through, I'm not sure I understand. No worries though.
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Old 04-01-2014, 07:25 PM   #326
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I was just cruising through, I'm not sure I understand. No worries though.
I was wondering if it had multiple exposed classes to SPY++, sub classes in the larger window like Reaper or some others, but it doesn't, just the one main class ('bitwig') is directly exposed, the whole window.

I look at all these windows apps with SPY++ to see if there are any easy opportunities to make a few bucks with add ons.
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Old 04-01-2014, 07:30 PM   #327
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bit-ing
-- my gut is saying, there'll be some of this magic afloat in the DEV's minds, and has been for some whiles.
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Old 04-02-2014, 08:41 AM   #328
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May I suggest Reaper developers take a close look at Bitwig and Live and what people love about these apps, then they create the Reaper equivalent and then Reaper as a DAW will just rule all over them.

The snappiness and ultraflexibility of Reaper as a DAW is just fabulous.

If only Cockos would develop some synths that are efficient and great sounding at the same time without loosing snappiness...
I would love a DX7 in Reaper, like PX7 in Reason.

The synth pack would be an additional optional install but including for sure a MPC like sampler and fullblown sampler with converter functionality...

One can dream for versions 5,6,7..
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Old 04-02-2014, 11:23 AM   #329
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May I suggest Reaper developers take a close look at Bitwig and Live and what people love about these apps, then they create the Reaper equivalent and then Reaper as a DAW will just rule all over them.
http://forum.cockos.com/showpost.php...&postcount=109


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One can dream for versions 5,6,7..
They can.
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Old 04-02-2014, 11:26 AM   #330
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I was wondering if it had multiple exposed classes to SPY++, sub classes in the larger window like Reaper or some others, but it doesn't, just the one main class ('bitwig') is directly exposed, the whole window.

I look at all these windows apps with SPY++ to see if there are any easy opportunities to make a few bucks with add ons.
I thought some of it was Java and if so that might be why. Not sure if Swing Explorer will show anything or not. I'm so removed from most of the discussion, I know nothing about the app you guys are discussing so could be wrong.
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Old 04-02-2014, 02:08 PM   #331
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@Karbo: I knew the main window class would show up, even with Java it's still running inside Windows and has to have a window and a handle there but yeah, it was probably overly optimistic to think i might see any sub classes directly with SPY++.

It's odd that most newer apps do that, even some apps written in C++. They seem to have all of the sub classes hidden behind the main window class or a shell class, where in Reaper or Cubase or some others you can identify the sub classes directly, like "transport", whatever, etc, smaller parts of the main app window. That may be a result of more modern compilers, or just different coding methods, no clue.

Thanks Karbo. Live long and prosper.
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Old 04-02-2014, 02:30 PM   #332
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People reports GUI becomes very sluggish in heavy projects..hm
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Old 04-02-2014, 03:43 PM   #333
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People reports GUI becomes very sluggish in heavy projects..hm
Bro. Its a 1.x what do you expect? I dont know WHY people expect the GUI not to lag!?! I mean what did you expect.
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Old 04-02-2014, 03:45 PM   #334
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Bro. Its a 1.x what do you expect? I dont know WHY people expect the GUI not to lag!?! I mean what did you expect.
But why not?
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Old 04-02-2014, 03:55 PM   #335
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People reports GUI becomes very sluggish in heavy projects..hm
I wouldn't extrapolate any particular universal reality from that...

http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.p...ht=Slow+redraw
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Old 04-02-2014, 03:57 PM   #336
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But why not?
And how. Or not as some half-wits would have you believe.

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I wouldn't extrapolate any particular universal reality from that...

http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.p...ht=Slow+redraw
What do you know. It got fixed! Stalker much? LOL. Go outside big guy! Its nice out there...

Last edited by lxm; 04-02-2014 at 04:04 PM.
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Old 04-02-2014, 04:05 PM   #337
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Are you really gonna hold this grudge forever and keep sniping? Lol. I didn't link that because you made that report, that was a coincidence, i just remembered the report.

Anyway, if it's a big problem there for lots of their users, i didn't see it personally but computer systems vary obviously, I'm sure they'll get around to fixing it.

The report of that can't be more than a week old.

Let's call a truce, or do you intend to keep sniping about a 3 day old disagreement for like... months?

Stalker? You keep sniping at and quoting me, not the other way around, I was talking to Viente? I've gotten over it already.
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Old 04-02-2014, 04:14 PM   #338
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I wasn't talking to you but of course you chimed in as per usual(stalking). Bringing up my threads from here and other forums. Get a life! You don't like repeating things? Huh, I guess this must be bizzaroworld... Up is down and down is up.
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Old 04-02-2014, 04:25 PM   #339
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So.. because we disagreed 3 days ago i can't reply to anyone else's post here? Really?

And your repeated comments sniping from afar about an old and long dead (to me anyway) disagreement where I never replied to you or quoted you since then? Like where you asked me to stop hammering a point, and I did exactly that, but you still actually can't let it go?

You mean that? You are the only one here still sniping about that 1.0 disagreement stuff.

I extended you an olive branch man, suggested we call a truce and act like adults. Are you really that butt hurt by that stupid disagreement that you actually can't just move past it?

If not, let's put each other on our ignore lists to end it.

But I'll ask again, truce? Or ... sniping?
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Old 04-02-2014, 04:28 PM   #340
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Jeez guys, get a room.
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Old 04-02-2014, 04:36 PM   #341
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So.. because we disagreed 3 days ago i can't reply to anyone else's post here? Really?

And your repeated comments sniping from afar about an old and long dead (to me anyway) disagreement where I never replied to you or quoted you since then? Like where you asked me to stop hammering a point, and I did exactly that, but you still actually can't let it go?

You mean that? You are the only one here still sniping about that 1.0 disagreement stuff.

I extended you an olive branch man, suggested we call a truce and act like adults. Are you really that butt hurt by that stupid disagreement that you actually can't just move past it?

If not, let's put each other on our ignore lists to end it.

But I'll ask again, truce? Or ... sniping?
Sniping? Like a hockey target simulation/game? The loser has to be beheaded k.

Even the DEVS tell you that you are out to lunch and you STILL try to prove your ridiculous argument by stalking me. Truce? Sure. Ignore? And how!
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Old 04-02-2014, 04:40 PM   #342
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People reports GUI becomes very sluggish in heavy projects..hm
Anyway V, I didn't personally experience that and i ran some really heavy projects with the demo. But you know how all that goes with different systems.

No idea if it's widespread or not, probably too early to tell. If you think it might be a problem, try the demo with some heavy VI's and a heavy ram load and see if it happens to you on your system or not.

Could be a major issue there, or not, no personal clue. I didn't experience that.
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Old 04-02-2014, 04:47 PM   #343
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Is it too early to ask for a Bitwig Reaper theme?

Seriously though, I kind of like the color scheme and a lot of the gui elements.

Reaper plus the Bitwig look= perfect.
(ReaWig)
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Old 04-02-2014, 04:49 PM   #344
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Is it too early to ask for a Bitwig Reaper theme?
you mean a native instruments theme? ;p
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Old 04-02-2014, 04:51 PM   #345
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There''s a "theme" file in the demo install folder that (in Win Explorer anyway) lists here as a 'Windows desktop theme'. I tried to open it up just to see what it was or what was in it, but no luck.
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Old 04-02-2014, 06:20 PM   #346
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Hate to say it but the expectations of what arrives in any 1.0 vs what is actually in any 1.0 are not the same thing EVER. One can argue that feature X should be a given but I can say that no creator of anything has unlimited time, money and resources and neither does a single person in this forum. There are two choices, understand why 1.0 is aptly called 1.0 or argue unecessarily.

Let me be clear that I'm not referring to BitWig's or Reaper's bad and good points. I'm referring to the sillyness of this whole 1.0 argument. Trust me when I say what the proverbial you considers complete for 1.0 is not going to match every proverbial others idea of that. Yes, that even covers a sluggish GUI. It doesn't matter how good or high a standard the developers have or how many beta testers because release is the thing that truly exposes weaknesses so they can be fixed then guess what happens, new version. That's the way it is supposed to happen, let it go already.

Now to play devils advocate, I think it is only natural to point out what is missing and see no problem with it. That's how as I just explained, products become better but arguing the politics of version numbers has way more to do with pissing on each other than it does making either Reaper or BitWig a bit better.

grabs hat, fades into distance again....
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Old 04-02-2014, 11:01 PM   #347
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I assume there are a lot of people who have downloaded and testet BitWig, but I wonder how the sales are? How many of you guys have bought it so far and do you know many people who have?
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Old 04-03-2014, 08:04 AM   #348
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Default Yes, yes....Soon!!!

I know some one interested to get it but he does'nt know if he's gonna stop use Ableton.
This person opened my eyes on some specifics of Bitwig so he's got his pros/cons.
For me it's not the case. I keep comparing this soft with Ableton that I have because I think Bitwig is an Ableton chalenger (maybe FL Studio....) but some limitations can't convince me but I keep an eye on it because I wait for an Ableton where U can make Parallel processing for several tracks for example, "freely", a track list (ala Reaper....in my dreams..but possible...) and some folder tracks it'll be cool.
By now Ableton is my tool for sliced drums or voices etc...EDM stuffs so to speak (lol) and he's good for that and I can redirect his outs to Reaper so....
It's a good tool but Reaper stay in front (lol)....
Bitwig can't get a midi message to an other track!!! There's some good stuff in it but the routings are not as complete as Ableton so...
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Old 04-03-2014, 11:12 AM   #349
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I assume there are a lot of people who have downloaded and testet BitWig, but I wonder how the sales are? How many of you guys have bought it so far and do you know many people who have?
Bitwig is goonna sell more in one month than Pro Tools in one year !
It┤s a GERMAN company
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Old 04-03-2014, 11:21 PM   #350
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Hi,
the search showed no result:
No Notation editing with bitwig, so, no deeper interest in.
horst
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Old 04-04-2014, 12:27 AM   #351
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Is it too early to ask for a Bitwig Reaper theme?

Seriously though, I kind of like the color scheme and a lot of the gui elements.

Reaper plus the Bitwig look= perfect.
(ReaWig)
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There''s a "theme" file in the demo install folder that (in Win Explorer anyway) lists here as a 'Windows desktop theme'. I tried to open it up just to see what it was or what was in it, but no luck.
I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard to do a quick and dirty one by using a resource explorer and directly copying the GUI elements, but I think that's a little less than legit, so one that's merely "inspired by Bitwig" but actually newly created would be best.

It's beyond my abilities, bit if someone made one I'd definitely give it a shot (been using a Cubase clone theme for many years now)...
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Old 04-04-2014, 11:09 AM   #352
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So I installed it, gave a quick mouse around and decided to record something. Within 30 seconds I'd discovered a show stopping bug. Recording 4 bars of MIDI over a 2 bar drums loop in their session view results in the last bar of MIDI being repeated before the 4 start looping.

The clip record button can't be MIDI learned and if you hit it after the number of bars you want it creates an extra empty bar instead of quantizing the clip length back a few milliseconds.

This is in Ubuntu 13. I don't have high expectations for a first release, but it's bamboozling that these issues are present.

+1000 for a session type view in Reaper.
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Old 04-04-2014, 02:59 PM   #353
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I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard to do a quick and dirty one by using a resource explorer and directly copying the GUI elements, but I think that's a little less than legit, so one that's merely "inspired by Bitwig" but actually newly created would be best.

It's beyond my abilities, bit if someone made one I'd definitely give it a shot (been using a Cubase clone theme for many years now)...
Unfortunately it's way beyond my skills so I'm at the mercy of more talented people than me.
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Old 04-04-2014, 11:16 PM   #354
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+1000 for a session type view in Reaper.
I have used Live since version 5. And even though I like the session view it's not THE feature that I find most useful. What I miss about using Live when I use any other daw is stuff like:

- drum/instrument racks and the setup of fx chains inside
- the chain selector inside of racks
- simpler & sampler
- unlinking the automation from the clip
- the fold feature in the midi edit window
- the midi fx

Don't get me wrong, session view is nice. The idea of scenes and follow actions get much use in my studio. But I'd get more use from having the above items in Reaper than I would session view.
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Old 04-04-2014, 11:40 PM   #355
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you mean a native instruments theme? ;p
hahaha, I agree, the influence or maybe even participation of NI (Berlin!) is pretty obvious. Since I already have NI Komplete = a very lot of NI plugins, I do not want my daw to look like NI, too, that would be a little too much for my eyes . All jokes aside. I would like to know the age of those who are thrilled about Bitwig┤s GUI/theme only to find out if my assumption concerning Bitwig┤s target is right or not.

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Old 05-15-2014, 05:58 AM   #356
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Getting ready to gear up a little recording/production studio and just heard about BitWig a couple weeks ago. I'm interested in EDM hybrid work. This is a great thread. Thank you everyone who has contributed. =)

I see a great many familiar faces from almost 3-4 years ago. Excited to make some music!
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Old 06-25-2014, 03:57 AM   #357
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I've been using the Bitwig demo, and I really, really want to buy it.
Problem is, it's too expensive for me -- actually too expensive, because I'm unemployed. If I had regular work, I'd shell out the $$ for sure.

I'm a long-time Reaper user who loves many things about the program but is continually frustrated by others -- yes, I make electronic music. I've spent many, many hours f*^#ing around with macros trying to create a system that will let me switch loops on and off live (I play live A LOT, I started in a punk band and crave the ability to improvise) but I've never found a way to do it that doesn't make Reaper sh*t the bed in unpredictable ways. So I basically end up using it, in the live context, as a glorified karaoke machine when it could be so much more.

When it comes to pure audio and mixing -- yes, Reaper is genius. The flexibility of routing, the degree of control, crossfades, bussing, yes all that stuff is great. VST stability, great. Detailed EQs, sample-level editing, fantastic. But for MAKING MUSIC -- as an instrument -- no. Something relatively simple like getting a soft-synth to arpeggiate reliably in sync with the grid can be like pulling teeth. Setting an easily controlled sample-based drum machine from your own samples, likewise. Have a loop snapped to grid, duplicate, and ten bars later it's mysteriously out of sync. Like many others have already said, Reaper just isn't designed for that stuff. And that's fine. I've got a lot of use out Reaper and don't regret for a moment having paid the very reasonable license fee.

What makes me want to buy Bitwig?
-The clip launcher. Better design than Ableton; you can see the clip launcher and the traditional DAW arrangement view simultaneously and drag clips between them.
-Modulation; Bitwig expects you to cross-modulate like crazy, and once the possibilities are there, you really realise how much sonic potential there is. (One of those things that's much more relevant to electronic producers.)
-FX chains... the way FX chains are structured is brilliant, inserts within inserts, feedback FX etc are v. easy to achieve. Combined with the modulation abilities, it's easy to take a single synth and make a huge, complex and continually evolving sound world out of it. It's also very easy to create multi-layered samples, different FX chains for different samples from the same sampler, etc, once you know which instrument container to use.
-I like the built-in instruments. One subtractive synth, one FM, a basic kick/clap etc percussion synth... doesn't sound like much, but they get better the longer you spend with them, and they integrate so beautifully with the inbuilt modulation that you can do special things.

In other words, it's an instrument. A huge synth/sampler/FX unit. Can't touch Reaper for mixing, and wouldn't be as good to record live audio into, but that's not the point. I want it. I just wish they'd made the damn thing a bit cheaper.
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Old 06-25-2014, 04:31 AM   #358
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for a bitwig reaper theme check out my theme: https://stash.reaper.fm/theme/1435/Beatwing%20v2.2.zip
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