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Old 10-21-2015, 09:32 AM   #1
MRiddickW
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Default Question about plugin management on Windows

Hi all,

I was wondering what y'all recommend in terms of plugin management. I've just started messing with downloaded plugins, and they all seem to want to install themselves. My understanding is that, at least with VSTs, the plugin just consists of a single .dll file. If this is the case, is there any reason to not install if need be, copy the .dll file, and uninstall?

This question was brought to a head for me because REAPER just started crashing upon startup. I figured out it is due to some Softube plugins that were installed automatically but not registered. Once I took those out of the path and left only the free plugin (Saturation), REAPER started up no problem.

Which leads me to a secondary question: If you don't bother unistalling the plugin programs, where do install them to relative to the VST locations? I started by putting them all in the same folder (by brand), but this might be a bad idea.

Thanks!
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Old 10-21-2015, 09:41 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by MRiddickW View Post
Hi all,

If this is the case, is there any reason to not install if need be, copy the .dll file, and uninstall?
Sometimes the licensing mechanism or other settings may break by doing that - often but not always that's why it came as an installer instead of just a zip file for example. It is better to just install the DLL (via installer which often asks) to your proper VST directory. Here's the proper way to set those up.

- Create two VST directories, one for 32 bit and one for 64 bit VSTs. VST32 and VST64 will work for example. Keep these separate and don't place one inside the other.

- When installing VSTs point the actual VST part of the installer to that directory and give it a subdirectory. Example 64 bit VST "foo" should go into VST64/Foo.

- In Reaper set your VST scan path to those two directories.

- Very important: Make sure the last scan path in the list matches the bittness of the version of Reaper you are running. For example if you are running 64 bit Reaper, have the scan path list VST32 folder first, followed by the VST64 path. This is important because if there are 32 bit and 64 bit versions of a plugin, Reaper solves the conflict by loading the last one in the list. If you don't do this, you'll end up with 32 bit plugins being bridged in Reaper when you expected it to load the 64 bit version.

Lastly there is always the chance some VST installer simply wants to install the DLL wherever it wishes. If that is the case, just add that path to the end of the VST scan list and you are good to go.

*** Avoid installing the entire VST (settings, presets and the lot) to these VST directories or you'll potentially end up with weird delays in Reaper when it has to scan thousands of files that aren't actually DLLs - Ask Evil Dragon about this, he just saw this a few months back.
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Last edited by karbomusic; 10-21-2015 at 09:51 AM.
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Old 10-21-2015, 09:51 AM   #3
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<< too late, but already typed >>

Hello MRiddickW and welcome to these forums. You'll find many helpful people here and a lot of useful information. Make sure that you get the excellent User Guide too:
http://www.cockos.com/reaper/userguide.php

The basis of many of the plug-ins is a single .dll file. Some use other files in the same folder or in a different folder. For some, the folders can be moved, for others they cannot. Some use (Windows) Registry keys. Some can be easily moved after installation, others cannot.

I would ....
1. Take a step back
2. Install the plug-ins where you want them to be, not the default location
3. Keep the 64-bit and 32-bit plug-ins separate.
4. Create 2 main folders for the plug-ins, for example (on Windows) C:\VST_64 and C:\VST_32 (avoid the Program Files, Program Files (x86) and Reaper's own plug-ins folders),
5. Decide how how want to organise your plug-ins within those folders - by manufacturer, by type (synths, reverbs, EQs, samplers etc) or ...
6. Then install them,
7. If you possibly can, put all accompanying files somewhere outside the plug-in folders; for example in a sub-folder in C:\VST_Data\...

A little effort now will save you unnecessary issue later on.

Why not register / activate those Softube plug-ins?
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Old 10-22-2015, 09:10 PM   #4
MRiddickW
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Thanks y'all.

I was installing them all to a folder of my choosing already, but it was only separated by brand. So the data was in the same folder as the VSTs. I just wasn't sure if my scheme was good.

So here's what I'm thinking for file tree:

REAPER Plugins
|
|-VST
| |
| |-VST Data
| | |-Brand A
| | |-Brand B
| |
| |-VST 32 (list in REAPER)
| | |-Brand A
| | |-Brand B
| |
| |-VST 64 (list in REAPER)
| | |-Brand A
| | |-Brand B

Thanks for the tip about list order karbomusic; I never would have known about that!

DarkStar, I'd love to activate all those other plugins, but Saturation was the only free one on their website. Though I did just look at their website again, and it looks like they have more plugins free for Focusrite users. My lucky day, I guess! Edit: apparently it's only for purchases after 2015-09-01.

Assuming this file tree makes sense, I think I'll just uninstall all the plugins and start from scratch installing to the proper folders.
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Old 10-23-2015, 02:34 AM   #5
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Seems good to me.

When you install check closely what folder is used. Some installers add the developer name to the selected folder path (and some do it invisibly), others do not. It might need an uninstall / reinstall or two.
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Old 10-23-2015, 03:26 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MRiddickW View Post
Hi all,

I was wondering what y'all recommend in terms of plugin management. I've just started messing with downloaded plugins, and they all seem to want to install themselves. My understanding is that, at least with VSTs, the plugin just consists of a single .dll file. If this is the case, is there any reason to not install if need be, copy the .dll file, and uninstall?

This question was brought to a head for me because REAPER just started crashing upon startup. I figured out it is due to some Softube plugins that were installed automatically but not registered. Once I took those out of the path and left only the free plugin (Saturation), REAPER started up no problem.

Which leads me to a secondary question: If you don't bother unistalling the plugin programs, where do install them to relative to the VST locations? I started by putting them all in the same folder (by brand), but this might be a bad idea.

Thanks!
I let them install to the default location and then keep notes of where to point Reaper to in the VST plugin folder preferences; and for a few (Omnisphere, Spaces, Play by Eastwest) I manually copy and paste.

I also keep a spreadsheet of where everything is so there can never be confusion (this is useful if you have a lot of plugins and multiple computers as I do; so easy to forget stuff or get things mixed up).
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Old 10-23-2015, 06:37 AM   #7
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With installers that need a 'data' location and a .dll location I just let it install wherever it wants to for the data part then direct the .dll to my plugins folder which is simply Vst Plugins/Effects/Company Name Here (I organise by company rather than any other method). Are you installing the data part into the same location as the .dll then? If so I advise against it as I've come across plugins that don't like having that location changed.
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Old 10-23-2015, 06:57 AM   #8
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Are you installing the data part into the same location as the .dll then?
Looks like he is installing in a parent directory which should be fine so long as it is the installer that does it. However, there is the occasional VST that didn't come with enough forethought and testing so there is the occasional one like you said that has issues, not that I can remember which ones those might be.

We don't want them in the VST directory because it can cause Reaper grief/delays during startup scans. If you remember some of the older threads where people are complaining it takes 10 minutes load every time they open Reaper due to VST scans for no apparent reason? That's usually why.
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Old 10-23-2015, 08:05 AM   #9
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Looks like he is installing in a parent directory which should be fine so long as it is the installer that does it. However, there is the occasional VST that didn't come with enough forethought and testing so there is the occasional one like you said that has issues, not that I can remember which ones those might be.

We don't want them in the VST directory because it can cause Reaper grief/delays during startup scans. If you remember some of the older threads where people are complaining it takes 10 minutes load every time they open Reaper due to VST scans for no apparent reason? That's usually why.
Yes I remember reading about the 'flaws' in Reapers plugin scanning. EMU's free Proteus plugin definitely doesn't like anything about the installation changed - not even the .dll. All the problems I had with it disappeared once I reinstalled and left everything at default.
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