Surround - One Mono Track Panned to Anywhere

phoo · 10-18-2015, 06:12 PM

I struggling to figure out how to do surround mixes, with 6 discrete outputs. Pretty much how to configure the hardware, master channel, and any individual channels. The whole thing.

Audio hardware is an Echo Gina. It has 8 discrete outputs that show up as 4 pair. What's confusing is that they have names like these in the Reaper Device Options:

1:Gina Analog (1/2)
2:Gina Analog (2)
3:Gina Analog (3/4)
4:Gina Analog (4)
5:Gina Analog (5/6)
6:Gina Analog (6)
7:Gina Analog (7/8)
8:Gina Analog (8)

I am using only the first 3 pair for 5.1 on the Gina, with 3/4 center and LFO. This is the physical hardware to the 5.1 amp. This are configured correctly. So the issues I have are with setting up Reaper.

I've set the Output Device Options to be:

First: 1:Gina Analog 1/2
Last: 6:Gina Analog 6

For 5.1 output from the master channel, I assume I select "Track Channels 6", but what hardware output routing, and what options for those? This is the first place my understanding of "Reaper" breaks down.

For playback, I am using just one mono wave as a source. I want to have that in one track and be able to pan it to any of the 5.1 channels, or at least Front L/R and Rear L/R.

I saw a post that used the JS: Surround Panner, but that plug-in isn't available. I've been experimenting with ReaSurround, but that's confusing and isn't working as expected.

Are there any clear step-by-steps for those of us new to surround in Reaper? I've done this many times on some other apps, but they all support surround panning natively. (and I'm not rich so I can't afford those anyway - Reaper blows them away in almost all other areas)

megawilsound · 10-18-2015, 07:21 PM

Hi phoo

jut to let you know I am working on a tutorial video on how to use the ReaRurround plugin for sound design, at the moment i am working on the print version. I hope to have the video up soon.

Megawilsound

audio2u · 10-20-2015, 10:17 PM

Phoo,
Persevere with ReaSurround... it's not that bad once you get your head around it! But I'll come to that in a sec.

As for your hardware setup, it sounds as though you've got that set up correctly based on what you've said. Let's step through this one bit at a time....

First up. Your audio track with the mono source on it. That track needs to be set to 6 channels (via the track count drop down menu in the I/O panel).
Now add an instance of ReaSurround. To begin with, see the drop down menu which says "stereo"? Open that up and select one of the 5.1 options. I personally use the ITU-R spec. When you do this, the number of input channels will automatically increase to 6. We don't need that. Change it back to one. You'll see that there is now only 1 puck in the GUI instead of 6. Also, 5 of the 6 channel input faders at the bottom left will disappear. So the input faders allow you to control how much signal from your audio track is feeding into the surround panner. The OUTPUT faders, as the name suggests, allow you to manually override what goes out of each channel, separately to your placement of the puck. Don't want signal going to the Ls Rs even though the puck is moving away from the front? Drop the output faders for the Ls Rs channels.

The trap for new players though, in terms of LFE, is that the dropdown menu at the bottom labelled "input faders" also doubles as your LFE send. Play with it. You'll figure it out if you've done this stuff before.

The "edit selected inputs" section has a whole bunch of different parameters you can automate. You can choose which 3 you want to designate to the 3 available controllers via the separate dropdown menus. The rotary controllers are infinite, but for them to work, your puck must be 'selected'. Simply click on it with your mouse and it'll grow wings. That lets you know it's selected. Not selected = no wings.

OK, so that's setting up ReaSurround.
Get out of there and back to your tracklay.
If your audio track is routed to a parent/folder, that parent/folder also needs to be set to 6 channel output (via the I/O panel), but does not require a ReaSurround plugin on it, as all the 6 channel routing has been done at the track level. Make sense?

Also, your master output needs to be set to 6 channel output.
You should now be rockin'.

And if you want to get your mind totally blown...

Reaper's unique "pin architecture" for plugins means you can load multiple instances of your favourite stereo compressor, but assign different inputs and outputs! Freakin' awesome or what? Love a Waves SSL compressor? Load it up 4 times on your channel/parent/master... in the first instance, leave the input/output pins assignment at its default. That will handle compression on 1/2 (Lf Rf). Go to the second instance of your compressor, bring up the pin controller, select inputs 3/3 and outputs 3/3. That compressor is now compressing just your centre channel. On your 3rd compressor, set the pins to in 4/4 and out 4/4. THAT compressor is just compressing your LFE channel. On the 4th compressor, set the pins to in 5/6 and out 5/6. And that compressor is handling your Ls Rs channels.

Sweet as honey.

Sing out if you're still stuck.

phoo · 10-21-2015, 03:50 PM

THANKS! I'll get up and give this a try in a bit.

( Just saw the replies. I'm not getting an email when folks post replies, but that's a different issue

)

audio2u · 10-21-2015, 03:51 PM

If you want replies to threads you've posted in, just click on the link at the bottom of the page which says "subscribe to this thread".

phoo · 10-21-2015, 04:05 PM

HA!!! Just did that with my last reply and it worked. I thought I already had when put up the initial post. Whoops. Didn't see that it didn't take until my last post.

Thanks for the VERY quick reply.

audio2u · 10-21-2015, 04:07 PM

No wukkas!
Let us know how you go with ReaSurrond! I've reas good things about the GRM Tools 'Space' plugin, too. It's a couple of hundred bucks to buy, and I'd happily spring for that if it wasn't for the bloody annoying iLok requirement. Grrrr(M).

phoo · 10-21-2015, 05:53 PM

I think I got it, thanks to your help!

The part I was missing was that the mono track needed to be set to 6 channels AND the master track needed to be set to 6 channels but the input channel count on ReSurround needed to be set back to 1 after selecting 5.1 (or whatever).

It's working almost as expected, and in hindsight, probably AS expected.

On thing, I was expecting the center channel to behave as just another speaker up front (nature of the GUI), but when panning far left or right those front sounds were still in the center speaker. It can be easily adjusted with the center trim or center out fader (as expected) In hindsight, this is almost the same as the LFE and it is as it should be. I like it.

Also, thanks for the LFE tip. Got that figured out quick, and I love the way it works. In my "other" surround mixing app I simply made a separate mono track (via an effects send) of what I wanted down there. It wasn't hard, but it wasn't terribly intuitive. ReaSurround makes LFE WAY easier.

THANKS!!!!

audio2u · 10-21-2015, 05:58 PM

No wukkas. Glad it helped.
One thing (and I should actually log a feature request for this).... the LFE send does NOT be default filter out-of-band content from the audio (as best as I can tell), so you need to put an eq on your master output, set the pin assignment to in 4/4 and out 4/4, and set it to low pass at 120Hz.
If you don't do this, your exported 6 channel .wav file will have full frequency content on channel 4. Now, in SOME systems, that's not a huge issue. But if it gets played back on a system where the subwoofer DOESN'T run it's own LPF, then there'll be full range audio going to the sub.
YMMV.

phoo · 10-21-2015, 06:10 PM

I agree. Most "even almost good systems" will low pass, but some don't.

A filter for the LFE right there would be a great feature addition.

(I'm got an relatively new JBL sub -- got it at a yard sale for cheap -- that doesn't filter at all. I know nothing about the model, but it was probably a part of a complete 5.1 low end for JBL system that did the filtering elsewhere.)