Old 11-14-2016, 09:20 PM   #121
karbomusic
Human being with feelings
 
karbomusic's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 24,563
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tod View Post

I'm assuming th "BS.1770 Integrated Loudness" is the main LUFS we want to shoot for.
Hi Tod,

Yes, integrated is the one that considers the entirety of the audio file.

Quote:
What exactly is "LRA", I've been assuming it's "Left Right Average" but the number "5.4" doesn't mean anything to me, what is it?
For the contest we don't need it but academically... "Loudness RAnge", it is similar to Dynamic Range but it doesn't consider the bottom 10% or top 5% of the signal when it does that calculation so don't expect it to always match something like TT-DR. So thinking about that, if you extended your render by 30 seconds but that was silence (less than 10%), it wouldn't change the LRA, but if that 30 seconds were some instrument at say 11% volume, then the LRA would change because it would then take that long low-level signal into the LRA calculation.

Quote:
Also, what exactly does "Highest Reconstructed Peak Level" mean, and how should we interprete it, along with the "Reconstructed Peaks Above 0 dBFS"?
The first one should be considering intersample peaks (aka reconstructed waveform). The second term is the same thing but tells how many of any ISPs went above 0 dBFS. So you can use "Highest Recontstructed Peak Level" as your -0.5 target (There is a possible exception but I don't think it matters unless someone corrects us).

Quote:
In the picture below, there was only 0.1dB difference as to how hard I hit the limiter.
I don't know too much about that other than whatever difference that makes, it applies to every sample in the song (well as far as the totality of the calculation goes me thinks). Meaning, I'm not familiar enough with how the algorithms work. It's still sort of sinking in after reading up on Saturday and could be missing something.
__________________
If it requires a null test to find it, it is by definition minuscule.

Last edited by karbomusic; 11-14-2016 at 09:39 PM.
karbomusic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2016, 09:34 PM   #122
karbomusic
Human being with feelings
 
karbomusic's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 24,563
Default

Thanks insub, I'd have tried those options had I known (and may use them in the future) but no one was around so I had to read up and figure something out.
__________________
If it requires a null test to find it, it is by definition minuscule.
karbomusic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2016, 10:07 PM   #123
thunderbroom
Human being with feelings
 
thunderbroom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 372
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by insub View Post
Thunderbroom, your zip should ONLY contain the project file and any additional files necessary. NONE of the original source files should be included. Additional files should be any reverb impulses and JS FX not included in the standard Reaper installation.

Hopefully, you did not need to glue or freeze any tracks/items that would have generated new audio files. And, if for some reason you did need to do so, you should use the FLAC file type for those generated files to reduce the total upload size.

Any of the original SOURCE files should be removed from your zip file.
Thanks for that. I'm certain this will make a major difference. I guess I misunderstood the submission directions; I assumed that when it said not to change the title of the 'Source' folder, that it needed to be included. I'll re-zip and (hopefully that should work just fine. Thanks!
__________________
Cheers,
thunderbroom
http://www.machineroomstudio.com
thunderbroom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2016, 10:15 PM   #124
thunderbroom
Human being with feelings
 
thunderbroom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 372
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by insub View Post
Thunderbroom, your zip should ONLY contain the project file and any additional files necessary. NONE of the original source files should be included. Additional files should be any reverb impulses and JS FX not included in the standard Reaper installation.

Hopefully, you did not need to glue or freeze any tracks/items that would have generated new audio files. And, if for some reason you did need to do so, you should use the FLAC file type for those generated files to reduce the total upload size.

Any of the original SOURCE files should be removed from your zip file.
By the project file do you mean only the one listed as "Reaper Project File", not to include any of the "Reaper Peak Files", or the "Wav sounds" files, correct? I've not had to freeze or glue any tracks.
__________________
Cheers,
thunderbroom
http://www.machineroomstudio.com
thunderbroom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2016, 11:35 PM   #125
insub
Human being with feelings
 
insub's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Louisville, KY, USA
Posts: 1,039
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by karbomusic View Post
Thanks insub, I'd have tried those options had I known (and may use them in the future) but no one was around so I had to read up and figure something out.
You're welcome.
Just so everyone knows, the SWS/BR Analyze Loudness contains all of those measurements you and Tod have been discussing, except # of times the ISP exceed 0 dBFS. It shows the Loudness Range too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderbroom View Post
By the project file do you mean only the one listed as "Reaper Project File", not to include any of the "Reaper Peak Files", or the "Wav sounds" files, correct? I've not had to freeze or glue any tracks.
For the last competition my zip folder contained only these files:

TheProject.rpp
MyReaperForumUserID.txt
MySubmission.mp3
[Subfolder "impulses"] containing used reverb impulses (wavs)

Total ZIP file size: 11.4 MB
__________________
Everything you need to know about samplerates and oversampling... maybe!
My Essential FREE 64bit VST Effects, ReaEQ Presets for Instruments
Windows 10 64 bit; MOTU 828 MKII, Audio Express, & 8PRE; Behringer ADA8000
insub is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2016, 10:14 AM   #126
thunderbroom
Human being with feelings
 
thunderbroom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 372
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by insub View Post
You're welcome.
Just so everyone knows, the SWS/BR Analyze Loudness contains all of those measurements you and Tod have been discussing, except # of times the ISP exceed 0 dBFS. It shows the Loudness Range too.

For the last competition my zip folder contained only these files:

TheProject.rpp
MyReaperForumUserID.txt
MySubmission.mp3
[Subfolder "impulses"] containing used reverb impulses (wavs)

Total ZIP file size: 11.4 MB
Thank you very much. I keep treating like this where I am sending an entire project folder to a client, not stopping to think that in this scenario, the recipient has Reaper, and the original project (audio) files.
__________________
Cheers,
thunderbroom
http://www.machineroomstudio.com

Last edited by thunderbroom; 11-15-2016 at 10:15 AM. Reason: spelling
thunderbroom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2016, 10:44 AM   #127
Tod
Human being with feelings
 
Tod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Just outside of Glacier National Park
Posts: 12,551
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by karbomusic View Post
Yes, integrated is the one that considers the entirety of the audio file.

For the contest we don't need it but academically... "Loudness RAnge", it is similar to Dynamic Range but it doesn't consider the bottom 10% or top 5% of the signal when it does that calculation so don't expect it to always match something like TT-DR. So thinking about that, if you extended your render by 30 seconds but that was silence (less than 10%), it wouldn't change the LRA, but if that 30 seconds were some instrument at say 11% volume, then the LRA would change because it would then take that long low-level signal into the LRA calculation.

The first one should be considering intersample peaks (aka reconstructed waveform). The second term is the same thing but tells how many of any ISPs went above 0 dBFS. So you can use "Highest Recontstructed Peak Level" as your -0.5 target (There is a possible exception but I don't think it matters unless someone corrects us).

I don't know too much about that other than whatever difference that makes, it applies to every sample in the song (well as far as the totality of the calculation goes me thinks). Meaning, I'm not familiar enough with how the algorithms work. It's still sort of sinking in after reading up on Saturday and could be missing something.
Okay, thanks again Karbo.
__________________
Kontakt Vid Tutorials->Create Outputs / Create Templates -|- SMDrums Free drums -|- Elk Video Productions -|- Tod's Music
Tod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2016, 02:26 PM   #128
DaveKeehl
Human being with feelings
 
DaveKeehl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 1,839
Default

Thunderbroom can you please send me what's missing?


Last edited by DaveKeehl; 11-15-2016 at 02:32 PM.
DaveKeehl is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2016, 02:51 PM   #129
DaveKeehl
Human being with feelings
 
DaveKeehl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 1,839
Default

still 5 days to go!

only 3 submissions until now! come on!
DaveKeehl is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2016, 03:24 PM   #130
insub
Human being with feelings
 
insub's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Louisville, KY, USA
Posts: 1,039
Default

I think after seeing the results of last month's contest people may be taking it more seriously. I feel like I'm doing some things in this mix that I learned since last month. I've got a couple more evenings available to work on it, so I'm trying to use them to iron out some details. I finally found a reference track that I wanted to use last night, and that practically threw most of my existing mix out the window. Plus, trying to use new techniques takes a bit more effort than doing the same old thing. Out of my comfort zone, and happy to be there.

This has really been a great exercise for me to learn more in depth about things I've glossed over with Reaper over the last few years.
__________________
Everything you need to know about samplerates and oversampling... maybe!
My Essential FREE 64bit VST Effects, ReaEQ Presets for Instruments
Windows 10 64 bit; MOTU 828 MKII, Audio Express, & 8PRE; Behringer ADA8000
insub is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2016, 03:37 PM   #131
insub
Human being with feelings
 
insub's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Louisville, KY, USA
Posts: 1,039
Default

Is anyone using drum replacement?

I've had the worst time with these drums. I'm sure it's probably just my lack of experience and mixing skills, but I really do not like the way the drums were tracked on a lot of levels. If this were me mixing my own band I'd go ahead and replace some of the drums with samples, but I've been trying to avoid doing so in this contest for a couple of reasons:

1. I don't want to add to the upload/download files.
2. I want to learn from something from what I don't know how to deal with right away.

I'm really interested to see how some of you handled the drums in your mixes when this is over.

Also, does anyone mind recommending some Mid-Side JS tools?
I downloaded ReaPack the other day, but haven't had much time to sift through the available resources yet, and they are many.
__________________
Everything you need to know about samplerates and oversampling... maybe!
My Essential FREE 64bit VST Effects, ReaEQ Presets for Instruments
Windows 10 64 bit; MOTU 828 MKII, Audio Express, & 8PRE; Behringer ADA8000
insub is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2016, 03:54 PM   #132
karbomusic
Human being with feelings
 
karbomusic's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 24,563
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by insub View Post
I think after seeing the results of last month's contest people may be taking it more seriously. I feel like I'm doing some things in this mix that I learned since last month. I've got a couple more evenings available to work on it, so I'm trying to use them to iron out some details.
I can't say I'm going overboard at all but I'd have a difficult time not trying to do a decent job for lack of a better term. I basically mixed so it sounds like the way I mix - whatever that happens to be.

Quote:
This has really been a great exercise for me to learn more in depth about things I've glossed over with Reaper over the last few years.
The eye-opener for me is I haven't mixed anything I didn't play 95% of the instruments on in years. Seems like that would be easier but it isn't because typically, if I hear a track I don't think fits soncially, I just replay the damn thing. Can't do that here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by insub View Post
Is anyone using drum replacement?
I'm not, don't know about the others.

Quote:
I'm really interested to see how some of you handled the drums in your mixes when this is over.
I didn't spend a huge amount of time on them - that could mean my drums suck but they sound fine to me in context at the moment. As I said, I'm down to sub dB changes on a handful of tracks.


Edit: There are things I've considered/noticed while mixing, I hope we can step back and discuss post contest as I think all our thoughts and that conversation may be even more valuable than the mixing work.
__________________
If it requires a null test to find it, it is by definition minuscule.

Last edited by karbomusic; 11-15-2016 at 05:34 PM.
karbomusic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2016, 05:53 PM   #133
Tod
Human being with feelings
 
Tod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Just outside of Glacier National Park
Posts: 12,551
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by insub View Post
Is anyone using drum replacement?

I've had the worst time with these drums. I'm sure it's probably just my lack of experience and mixing skills, but I really do not like the way the drums were tracked on a lot of levels. If this were me mixing my own band I'd go ahead and replace some of the drums with samples, but I've been trying to avoid doing so in this contest for a couple of reasons:

1. I don't want to add to the upload/download files.
2. I want to learn from something from what I don't know how to deal with right away.

I'm really interested to see how some of you handled the drums in your mixes when this is over.
Yeah, the drums are less then ideal, but I think for something like this they are probably on par as average, and no I'm not using any drum replacement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by karbomusic View Post
I can't say I'm going overboard at all but I'd have a difficult time not trying to do a decent job for lack of a better term. I'm not spending lots of time editing etc. such as all those player flubs and groove flubs (I did fix one or two really annoying ones though). I basically mixed so it sounds like the way I mix - whatever that happens to be.

The eye-opener for me is I haven't mixed anything I didn't play 95% of the instruments on in years. Seems like that would be easier but it isn't because typically, if I hear a track I don't think fits soncially, I just replay the damn thing. Can't do that here.
Yeah I'm trying to mix so it sounds good to me too, but this kind of music is totally different from what I work with. I've been looking for some reference material, but since I don't really listen to this kind of thing, I don't have a clue where to look.

My situation is that nearly all my clients have been single artists for the last 15 to 20 years, and like you, I've created my own tracks.

I've also been dealing with some Reaper glitches and bugs. I spent at least two hours this morning trying to send a track to a reverb bus, very simple, but no matter what I did I couldn't get it to go to the reverb. Finally I just removed the send, reapplied it, and it worked just as it should.

Heh heh, the biggest problem I'm having is getting in compliance with the -0.5dB/-14.0LUFS thingy. I'm really glad you posted the Orban meter Karbo, but now it's driving me nuts.
__________________
Kontakt Vid Tutorials->Create Outputs / Create Templates -|- SMDrums Free drums -|- Elk Video Productions -|- Tod's Music
Tod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2016, 06:02 PM   #134
karbomusic
Human being with feelings
 
karbomusic's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 24,563
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tod View Post

Yeah I'm trying to mix so it sounds good to me too, but this kind of music is totally different from what I work with. I've been looking for some reference material, but since I don't really listen to this kind of thing, I don't have a clue where to look.
IMHO it's like (or can be treated like) most non-electronic rock genres since the '70s - Simply because it's a couple guitars, bass, drums, vocal with a live feel so I don't think I would even worry about the mold it is supposed to fit if there even is one. The closest I've come to reference tracks is an occasional sanity check on frequency response and dynamics, stylistically, I've not really cared.

Quote:
I've also been dealing with some Reaper glitches and bugs. I spent at least two hours this morning trying to send a track to a reverb bus, very simple, but no matter what I did I couldn't get it to go to the reverb. Finally I just removed the send, reapplied it, and it worked just as it should.
That's odd, I'll keep any eye out.

Quote:
Heh heh, the biggest problem I'm having is getting in compliance with the -0.5dB/-14.0LUFS thingy. I'm really glad you posted the Orban meter Karbo, but now it's driving me nuts.
Insub's suggestion might be easier, I just wasn't aware of it and had to find my own way so that's what I did. I'm also not going to be losing sleep over 1/2 dB or so; if I get close to that, I'm sticking a fork in it and calling it done.
__________________
If it requires a null test to find it, it is by definition minuscule.

Last edited by karbomusic; 11-15-2016 at 06:10 PM.
karbomusic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2016, 06:19 PM   #135
insub
Human being with feelings
 
insub's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Louisville, KY, USA
Posts: 1,039
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by karbomusic View Post
Edit: There are things I've considered/noticed while mixing, I hope we can step back and discuss post contest as I think all our thoughts and that conversation may be even more valuable than the mixing work.
I'm hoping for some conversation afterwards which didn't really occur last month. Probably because the new contest started and people were moving to get started on the next mix. Honestly, I still haven't given the other projects the in-depth inspection I was planning to do. I checked out the things I noticed most where I was lacking, but only gave a brief look into the rest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tod View Post
Yeah, the drums are less then ideal, but I think for something like this they are probably on par as average, and no I'm not using any drum replacement.
I was wondering if it was just me. Most of the live drums I've mixed to date were the ones I had tracked. In those cases I had plenty of time to confer with the drummer and experiment with mic placement. Honestly, I prefer some of those drum recordings over these, and they were recorded with cheap-ass mics in a bedroom by amateurs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tod View Post
Heh heh, the biggest problem I'm having is getting in compliance with the -0.5dB/-14.0LUFS thingy. I'm really glad you posted the Orban meter Karbo, but now it's driving me nuts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by karbomusic View Post
Insub's suggestion might be easier, I just wasn't aware of it and had to find my own way so that's what I did. I'm also not going to be losing sleep over 1/2 dB or so; if I get close to that, I'm sticking a fork in it and calling it done.
I wouldn't sweat it either. Honestly, if you're slightly hotter than the requirement is probably better. At least then your mix is unlikely to get limited more for voting distribution. Just your peaks may be ever-so-slightly less then the rest.
__________________
Everything you need to know about samplerates and oversampling... maybe!
My Essential FREE 64bit VST Effects, ReaEQ Presets for Instruments
Windows 10 64 bit; MOTU 828 MKII, Audio Express, & 8PRE; Behringer ADA8000
insub is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2016, 07:08 PM   #136
thunderbroom
Human being with feelings
 
thunderbroom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 372
Default In reviewing all the most recent comments about the project

I too had some difficulty making decisions about the mix. That said, I took Tod's approach and simply mixed it as I know how, and how I think it will work best. Instead of drum replacement and such, I just set up lots of parallel compression busses, and some fun vocal effects. As I didn't participate last month, but I still have the session tracks, I might give that a go once I'm finished with my current client mix.
__________________
Cheers,
thunderbroom
http://www.machineroomstudio.com
thunderbroom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2016, 07:40 PM   #137
MikComposer
Human being with feelings
 
MikComposer's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Brighton
Posts: 1,988
Default

Hi,

Do we need to only use reaper plugins or can we use other plugins, like nova free ? Thanks
__________________
My Royalty Free Music library

Last edited by MikComposer; 11-15-2016 at 07:58 PM.
MikComposer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2016, 08:33 PM   #138
Tod
Human being with feelings
 
Tod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Just outside of Glacier National Park
Posts: 12,551
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikComposer View Post
Hi,

Do we need to only use reaper plugins or can we use other plugins, like nova free ? Thanks
It's best that you use Reaper plugins, that's part of the rules, and has it's good reasons. I missed a couple of other plugins too, but I actually learned how to use some of the ReaPlugs I'd never used before.
__________________
Kontakt Vid Tutorials->Create Outputs / Create Templates -|- SMDrums Free drums -|- Elk Video Productions -|- Tod's Music
Tod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2016, 08:37 PM   #139
Tod
Human being with feelings
 
Tod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Just outside of Glacier National Park
Posts: 12,551
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by insub View Post
I wouldn't sweat it either. Honestly, if you're slightly hotter than the requirement is probably better. At least then your mix is unlikely to get limited more for voting distribution. Just your peaks may be ever-so-slightly less then the rest.
Yeah, I'm not sure how much difference there is between -14.0LUFS and something like -13.2LUFS. I'll probably check that out tomorrow, I think I'm about ready to submit.
__________________
Kontakt Vid Tutorials->Create Outputs / Create Templates -|- SMDrums Free drums -|- Elk Video Productions -|- Tod's Music
Tod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2016, 03:46 AM   #140
DaveKeehl
Human being with feelings
 
DaveKeehl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 1,839
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikComposer View Post
Hi,

Do we need to only use reaper plugins or can we use other plugins, like nova free ? Thanks
not to be rude but it's literally written at the top of the first post
DaveKeehl is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2016, 02:38 PM   #141
Tod
Human being with feelings
 
Tod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Just outside of Glacier National Park
Posts: 12,551
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveKeehl View Post
  • a master mix (limited to -0.5 dB and at -14 LUFS): MP3 320kps
Hi Dave, I've got a question regarding this. What I'd like to do is send you a mp3 with these specifications, just to see if we are in the same ball park, just to make sure that what you use to measure this is the same.

I've just been using the Orban meter software (thanks Karbo), and this is my first experience at trying to fit a standard like this. Heh heh, I must say, although it's been frustrating it's been very enlightening as well.

If you're up to it Dave, all I need is a place to send it to you, maybe your email. It's a little less than 8MB, so will fit as an attachment.

I've actually already learned a lot about some of the Reaper plugins, and how to better use them, things that I can use every day, even some of the ones I use every day.

EDIT: Aah, I just checked out the first post, should I just send it here? reaper.contest@gmail.com
__________________
Kontakt Vid Tutorials->Create Outputs / Create Templates -|- SMDrums Free drums -|- Elk Video Productions -|- Tod's Music

Last edited by Tod; 11-16-2016 at 02:45 PM.
Tod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2016, 02:58 PM   #142
DaveKeehl
Human being with feelings
 
DaveKeehl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 1,839
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tod View Post
Hi Dave, I've got a question regarding this. What I'd like to do is send you a mp3 with these specifications, just to see if we are in the same ball park, just to make sure that what you use to measure this is the same.

I've just been using the Orban meter software (thanks Karbo), and this is my first experience at trying to fit a standard like this. Heh heh, I must say, although it's been frustrating it's been very enlightening as well.

If you're up to it Dave, all I need is a place to send it to you, maybe your email. It's a little less than 8MB, so will fit as an attachment.

I've actually already learned a lot about some of the Reaper plugins, and how to better use them, things that I can use every day, even some of the ones I use every day.

EDIT: Aah, I just checked out the first post, should I just send it here? reaper.contest@gmail.com
Hey Tod yeah sure send it whenever you want!
DaveKeehl is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2016, 03:09 PM   #143
richie43
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 8,552
Default

Todd:
I also am using Orban. An interesting thing about all of this measurements is that the same render as a wav will not have the same final measurements as the mp3 (for me at least). MP3's can have overages that do not happen in wav...Try it. After you get the final measurements you want, change the output format and re-render. Analyze that in Orban.....For instance, to get the final highest peak to -.5db my final limeter ceiling had to be as low as -1.5! But if I render a wav the final highest peak is....gues.....-1.5.
But in defense of Orban, I have re-checked using 2 other real-time tools (not batch process) and they all came up with the same results.
__________________
http://soundyaudio.com/ The Sounds of the Hear and Now
richie43 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2016, 03:26 PM   #144
karbomusic
Human being with feelings
 
karbomusic's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 24,563
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by richie43 View Post
Todd:
I also am using Orban. An interesting thing about all of this measurements is that the same render as a wav will not have the same final measurements as the mp3 (for me at least). MP3's can have overages that do not happen in wav...Try it. After you get the final measurements you want, change the output format and re-render. Analyze that in Orban.....For instance, to get the final highest peak to -.5db my final limeter ceiling had to be as low as -1.5! But if I render a wav the final highest peak is....gues.....-1.5.
But in defense of Orban, I have re-checked using 2 other real-time tools (not batch process) and they all came up with the same results.
Right, it's not the meter, it's just the ISPs AFAIK, Orban and others are measuring those ISPs just so we can be aware. Basically I did the same, rendered the master, analyzed in orban then backed off in the next render by about the same amount so instead of -0.5 I ended up with something like -1 which resulted in this:



I also did some tests using the built in stuff insub mentioned and it's basically the same thing so just use what you like best. Btw, I really like the histogram in Orban, does a good job of showing the distribution of various levels (aka the orange bars).
__________________
If it requires a null test to find it, it is by definition minuscule.
karbomusic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2016, 03:34 PM   #145
richie43
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 8,552
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by karbomusic View Post
Right, it's not the meter, it's just the ISPs AFAIK, Orban and others are measuring those ISPs just so we can be aware.
Absolutely. I typed fast and may have left out thoughts....ha ha. I was just referring to the levels and how they pertain to the specific format (mp3). I would have rather submitted a wav, even CD format...but I didn't make the rules.
__________________
http://soundyaudio.com/ The Sounds of the Hear and Now
richie43 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2016, 03:36 PM   #146
karbomusic
Human being with feelings
 
karbomusic's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 24,563
Default

It's 320kbs isn't it? That should be OK.
__________________
If it requires a null test to find it, it is by definition minuscule.
karbomusic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2016, 03:45 PM   #147
richie43
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 8,552
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by karbomusic View Post
It's 320kbs isn't it? That should be OK.
Sure, it SOUNDS ok.....But it's an mp3, and we all know that we lose bits with mp3's, and my brain would rather submit a "better" wav......ha ha (I didn't mean to start the war....)

__________________
http://soundyaudio.com/ The Sounds of the Hear and Now
richie43 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2016, 03:59 PM   #148
Tod
Human being with feelings
 
Tod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Just outside of Glacier National Park
Posts: 12,551
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by richie43 View Post
Todd:
I also am using Orban. An interesting thing about all of this measurements is that the same render as a wav will not have the same final measurements as the mp3 (for me at least). MP3's can have overages that do not happen in wav...Try it. After you get the final measurements you want, change the output format and re-render. Analyze that in Orban.....For instance, to get the final highest peak to -.5db my final limeter ceiling had to be as low as -1.5! But if I render a wav the final highest peak is....gues.....-1.5.
But in defense of Orban, I have re-checked using 2 other real-time tools (not batch process) and they all came up with the same results.
You're absolutely right Richie, I had a wave file that ended up at -14.1LUFS, but when I made it into an mp3, it ended up at -13.2LUFS. Bummer.

EDIT: So Dave, I'm going to send you the mp3, and if you would, could you make the adjustment that you would for the contest and then send it back to me. That way I can test it to see what's happening. Also I'll post here what I find out.
__________________
Kontakt Vid Tutorials->Create Outputs / Create Templates -|- SMDrums Free drums -|- Elk Video Productions -|- Tod's Music

Last edited by Tod; 11-16-2016 at 04:05 PM.
Tod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2016, 04:10 PM   #149
DaveKeehl
Human being with feelings
 
DaveKeehl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 1,839
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by richie43 View Post
Sure, it SOUNDS ok.....But it's an mp3, and we all know that we lose bits with mp3's, and my brain would rather submit a "better" wav......ha ha (I didn't mean to start the war....)

You're absolutely right Richie. I've written MP3 because I'm using google drive at the moment and you cannot preview other audio formats. I don't you to download anything but this time I'll provide an RPP with all the submissions, so you choose whether you want to judge directly via browser or using Reaper.
DaveKeehl is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2016, 04:16 PM   #150
Tod
Human being with feelings
 
Tod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Just outside of Glacier National Park
Posts: 12,551
Default

Okay, I tried to send it to you Dave, but I get a message saying "I don't have permissions". I'm definitely logged in because I can get around in the files.
__________________
Kontakt Vid Tutorials->Create Outputs / Create Templates -|- SMDrums Free drums -|- Elk Video Productions -|- Tod's Music
Tod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2016, 04:20 PM   #151
DaveKeehl
Human being with feelings
 
DaveKeehl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 1,839
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tod View Post
You're absolutely right Richie, I had a wave file that ended up at -14.1LUFS, but when I made it into an mp3, it ended up at -13.2LUFS. Bummer.

EDIT: So Dave, I'm going to send you the mp3, and if you would, could you make the adjustment that you would for the contest and then send it back to me. That way I can test it to see what's happening. Also I'll post here what I find out.
I don't actually care whether your mix perfectly match with my requirements. I just want to make sure the submissions are equally loud. I would prefer do the adjustments at the end of the mixing part
DaveKeehl is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2016, 04:29 PM   #152
Tod
Human being with feelings
 
Tod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Just outside of Glacier National Park
Posts: 12,551
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveKeehl View Post
I don't actually care whether your mix perfectly match with my requirements. I just want to make sure the submissions are equally loud. I would prefer do the adjustments at the end of the mixing part
Okay, based on what Richie and Karbo are saying, the Orban is close enough, so I can make my own tests.

One thing of concern though, is my inability to submit the mp3 I was going to submit. I do have my own account with Google drive so I don't think there should be a problem.

Another thing of note, I had to be signed in to get into the files. What about the folks that don't have an account?
__________________
Kontakt Vid Tutorials->Create Outputs / Create Templates -|- SMDrums Free drums -|- Elk Video Productions -|- Tod's Music
Tod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2016, 04:30 PM   #153
DaveKeehl
Human being with feelings
 
DaveKeehl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 1,839
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tod View Post
Okay, I tried to send it to you Dave, but I get a message saying "I don't have permissions". I'm definitely logged in because I can get around in the files.
I don't understand why you should need permissions to send me an email... Everyone has never had any issue sending me files, so I'm pretty sure you're doing something wrong
DaveKeehl is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2016, 04:36 PM   #154
DaveKeehl
Human being with feelings
 
DaveKeehl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 1,839
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tod View Post
Okay, based on what Richie and Karbo are saying, the Orban is close enough, so I can make my own tests.

One thing of concern though, is my inability to submit the mp3 I was going to submit. I do have my own account with Google drive so I don't think there should be a problem.

Another thing of note, I had to be signed in to get into the files. What about the folks that don't have an account?
let me check...
DaveKeehl is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2016, 04:42 PM   #155
DaveKeehl
Human being with feelings
 
DaveKeehl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 1,839
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tod View Post
One thing of concern though, is my inability to submit the mp3 I was going to submit. I do have my own account with Google drive so I don't think there should be a problem.
I don't understand what you mean. Why can't you submit the mp3 you were going to submit?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tod View Post
Another thing of note, I had to be signed in to get into the files. What about the folks that don't have an account?
If you mean the zip file with the source material at point 1 of the first post, you don't need to have a google account to be able to download it.
DaveKeehl is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2016, 05:13 PM   #156
EpicSounds
Human being with feelings
 
EpicSounds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,526
Default

are you guys done your mixes or are you all busy debating loudness measurements. Really seems like you guys are getting hung up on the least important part.
I really enjoyed mixing the song but this discussion is soooo boring LOL

Quote:
I just want to make sure the submissions are equally loud. I would prefer do the adjustments at the end of the mixing part
yes! it's a mixing contest. let the judge level match them.
__________________
REAPER Video Tutorials, Tips & Tricks and more at The REAPER Blog
EpicSounds is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2016, 05:16 PM   #157
DaveKeehl
Human being with feelings
 
DaveKeehl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 1,839
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EpicSounds View Post
are you guys done your mixes or are you all busy debating loudness measurements. Really seems like you guys are getting hung up on the least important part.
I really enjoyed mixing the song but this discussion is soooo boring LOL



yes! it's a mixing contest. let the judge level match them.
+1
DaveKeehl is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2016, 05:28 PM   #158
Tod
Human being with feelings
 
Tod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Just outside of Glacier National Park
Posts: 12,551
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveKeehl View Post
I don't understand what you mean. Why can't you submit the mp3 you were going to submit?

If you mean the zip file with the source material at point 1 of the first post, you don't need to have a google account to be able to download it.
This is what I get. I can't drag the file in and when I can't select "New", this is what I get.



And when I try to access the account without signing in I get a message that I'm not signed in?
__________________
Kontakt Vid Tutorials->Create Outputs / Create Templates -|- SMDrums Free drums -|- Elk Video Productions -|- Tod's Music
Tod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2016, 05:34 PM   #159
Tod
Human being with feelings
 
Tod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Just outside of Glacier National Park
Posts: 12,551
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EpicSounds View Post
are you guys done your mixes or are you all busy debating loudness measurements. Really seems like you guys are getting hung up on the least important part.
I really enjoyed mixing the song but this discussion is soooo boring LOL



yes! it's a mixing contest. let the judge level match them.
Hey Jon, heh heh, I know this old hat to you, but some of us old, old, farts have never been involved with something like this, so you'll have to give us a little latitude here, since I decided to do it, Karbo talked me into it (it's all your fault Karbo ), I'm taking it seriously, is that okay.
__________________
Kontakt Vid Tutorials->Create Outputs / Create Templates -|- SMDrums Free drums -|- Elk Video Productions -|- Tod's Music
Tod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2016, 05:56 PM   #160
DaveKeehl
Human being with feelings
 
DaveKeehl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 1,839
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tod View Post
This is what I get. I can't drag the file in and when I can't select "New", this is what I get.



And when I try to access the account without signing in I get a message that I'm not signed in?
There's nothing wrong about it. You're not supposed to be able to edit the folder, you have to send me the mp3 via email. It would be completely pointless to have a folder where everyone can upload and delete files... Come on Tod it's not that difficult
DaveKeehl is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:53 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.