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07-24-2018, 11:02 AM
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#1
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 430
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Setting up midi controllers to control plugins, any tips?
I've spent the last week trying to setup a bunch of midi controllers to control my synths and plugins in general. It has been more time consuming and frustrating, than I'd ever imagine, but I really think the end result could be amazing for my workflow.
I use continuous knobs with relative mode and Realearn on the input fx to adjust the increments to get the right feel for every knob, but it is a lot of trial and error. I'm starting to get the hang of it, but the interface is not very well optimized... It is a free plugin after all... So I wanted to know if any of you have any tips on setting up controllers with or without Realearn or another plugin.
Lastly I've stumbled upon the term (N)RPN and I wanted to know what it is used for. Should I use this instead of normal midi relative for the controllers that support it? What are the benefits of it over normal relative mode? I hate jumping parameters, so I want to avoid that at all costs.
Cheers
Ketil
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07-24-2018, 07:05 PM
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#2
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 998
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiggerdyret
I've spent the last week trying to setup a bunch of midi controllers to control my synths and plugins in general. It has been more time consuming and frustrating, than I'd ever imagine, but I really think the end result could be amazing for my workflow.
I use continuous knobs with relative mode and Realearn on the input fx to adjust the increments to get the right feel for every knob, but it is a lot of trial and error. I'm starting to get the hang of it, but the interface is not very well optimized... It is a free plugin after all... So I wanted to know if any of you have any tips on setting up controllers with or without Realearn or another plugin.
Lastly I've stumbled upon the term (N)RPN and I wanted to know what it is used for. Should I use this instead of normal midi relative for the controllers that support it? What are the benefits of it over normal relative mode? I hate jumping parameters, so I want to avoid that at all costs.
Cheers
Ketil
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Realearn is fantastic! Helgoboss just rolled out a huge update and really is a great piece of software!
I use it in conjunction with this:
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=204972
LBX SRD Smart Knob Script
I use Realearn to map my controller(s) to the faderbox plugin(the thread and instructions explains the setup). But with this setup I have midi feedback on my Midi Fighter twister and plugins always remember the mappings, very very reliable. Please let me know if I can help in setting it up as it is a touch difficult (at least for me lol)
This isn't really a proper demo of anything but I took a short video on my phone of what it looks like and does.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Aae...ew?usp=sharing
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07-24-2018, 07:42 PM
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#3
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Great Lakes, N. A.
Posts: 1,872
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RPN = Registered Practical Nurse
She'll help you with your headaches.
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07-25-2018, 12:01 AM
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#4
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 430
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjewellstudios
Realearn is fantastic! Helgoboss just rolled out a huge update and really is a great piece of software!
I use it in conjunction with this:
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=204972
LBX SRD Smart Knob Script
I use Realearn to map my controller(s) to the faderbox plugin(the thread and instructions explains the setup). But with this setup I have midi feedback on my Midi Fighter twister and plugins always remember the mappings, very very reliable. Please let me know if I can help in setting it up as it is a touch difficult (at least for me lol)
This isn't really a proper demo of anything but I took a short video on my phone of what it looks like and does.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Aae...ew?usp=sharing
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What is the benefit of using this besides midi feedback? Does it mean I don't have to have Realearn on every single input fx channel? What do you use Realearn for?
I also want to setup Realearn to control multiple plugins in different groups of and have hotkeys to switch what is being used on and off. This might not be possible with this script, since it only work on the plugin being active.
Last edited by Tiggerdyret; 07-25-2018 at 12:16 AM.
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07-25-2018, 04:29 AM
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#5
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 998
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiggerdyret
What is the benefit of using this besides midi feedback? Does it mean I don't have to have Realearn on every single input fx channel? What do you use Realearn for?
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Benefits of this setup:
-Interface is very simple
-it remembers your mappings very well (I don't know how many times I've had to remap things with native midi learn)
Cons:
You got it, just the active plugin. I'm looking at it from a mixing standpoint though so that's not a dealbreaker for me. In fact it let's me use the knobs for an infinite amount if things instead of having a knob be dedicated to one specific thing(so in that way its a benefit)
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Precisely! I actually just use one instance of realearn. The smart knobs script works by using a plugin the author made called faderbox. Then he uses faderbox to link to the active plugin (that's just my understanding)
I use realearn to map my controller to the faderbox. I do this for two reasons. Midi feedback (the smart knob script also does this but realearn seems to do it better) and realearn really does a great job of cutting out parameter jumps.
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Do you have the latest version of realearn? He recently updated the targeting allowing for way more flexibility. I'm pretty sure you don't have to have a separate realearn on every track to do what you want to do.
Alternatively, you could stack up a few instances of realearn on a track and set up custom actions to switch which one was unbypassed.
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07-25-2018, 05:36 AM
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#6
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 430
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjewellstudios
Benefits of this setup:
-Interface is very simple
-it remembers your mappings very well (I don't know how many times I've had to remap things with native midi learn)
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Yeah, feature wise Realearn is great, but the interface is still very cumbersome. I think an update is coming in one of the next releases.
I don't think Realearn has trouble with forgetting mappings.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjewellstudios
Precisely! I actually just use one instance of realearn. The smart knobs script works by using a plugin the author made called faderbox. Then he uses faderbox to link to the active plugin (that's just my understanding)
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I'm getting more confused you route your controller through 3 plugins? Or are you just talking about featured of the last plugin?
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjewellstudios
I use realearn to map my controller to the faderbox. I do this for two reasons. Midi feedback (the smart knob script also does this but realearn seems to do it better) and realearn really does a great job of cutting out parameter jumps.
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How is your controller set up? Do you use absolute, soft-takeover or relative mode?
Did you adjust the increment speed of every parameter? I do that and it takes such a long time, but I feel like you have to, since some parameters has either too many or too few increments.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjewellstudios
Do you have the latest version of realearn? He recently updated the targeting allowing for way more flexibility. I'm pretty sure you don't have to have a separate realearn on every track to do what you want to do.
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Yes, I think I have it, unless he updated in the last two weeks or so. I'll just install it again to be sure.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjewellstudios
Alternatively, you could stack up a few instances of realearn on a track and set up custom actions to switch which one was unbypassed.
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This is what I plan on doing. Setting up a bunch of controllers for different group tasks like EQs, Comps, Reverbs and so on. Then I can just hit a button to load unload the Realearn instances for that particular task. Right now I just have an issue where Realearn is reading my inputs even when it's bypassed. I'll have to troubleshoot why this is happening. Maybe I have Realearn enabled on another track or something.
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07-25-2018, 06:45 AM
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#7
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 998
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Yeah sorry for any confusion. I think the disconnect here is I'm mainly using the smart knob script to map plugins. That script is doing the bulk of the work in my setup. The way that particular script works is it communicates with a js plugin called faderbox and then the script links the parameters in the js plugin to the active plugin. My "simple interface" comment was speaking of the gui on the smart knob script.
Realearn comes into play because you have to map your controller to faderbox. And doing it with realearn instead of the native midi learn took care of the parameter jumps and added midi feedback.
As for how the controller set up, I just leave it on absolute. With the midi feedback enabled on realearn, I don't need anything like soft takeover, the parameters just move as expected. If I want fiber movements, the mf twister has the functionality where if you push the encoder down you get smaller increments.
With any issues with realearn. Helgoboss is super generous and helpful in this thread:
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=178015
feel free to PM me or continue here. I'd love to help if I can.
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07-25-2018, 10:56 AM
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#8
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 430
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjewellstudios
Yeah sorry for any confusion. I think the disconnect here is I'm mainly using the smart knob script to map plugins. That script is doing the bulk of the work in my setup. The way that particular script works is it communicates with a js plugin called faderbox and then the script links the parameters in the js plugin to the active plugin. My "simple interface" comment was speaking of the gui on the smart knob script.
Realearn comes into play because you have to map your controller to faderbox. And doing it with realearn instead of the native midi learn took care of the parameter jumps and added midi feedback.
As for how the controller set up, I just leave it on absolute. With the midi feedback enabled on realearn, I don't need anything like soft takeover, the parameters just move as expected. If I want fiber movements, the mf twister has the functionality where if you push the encoder down you get smaller increments.
With any issues with realearn. Helgoboss is super generous and helpful in this thread:
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=178015
feel free to PM me or continue here. I'd love to help if I can.
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Don't worry, it's a very confusing subject and you've been very helpful
So my controller definitely jumps, when in absolute mode. Just to make it clear, what I mean by jump, are the jumps happening, when you adjust a parameter with the mouse or adjust another plugin to change a different parameter the parameter will then jump to the point where the knob was last at.
Is this jump prevention a feedback feature exclusive to the MF Twister or the plugin you describe?
I think Helgoboss is on a well earned vacation right now. Hasn't responded in a couple of days. I did donate to him and he did also write one of my suggestions on the bucket-list. In case your'e interested, I suggested an acceleration function which will make the increments bigger the faster you turn the knob, so ideally you can do fine adjustments with small movements and then make coarse jumps just by moving your knobs faster or slower. If he can crack the code on this it will make many cheap relative controllers much more powerful and easy to set up.
Last edited by Tiggerdyret; 07-25-2018 at 11:10 AM.
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07-25-2018, 11:33 AM
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#9
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 998
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Awesome! I'm subscribed to that thread and I saw that idea mentioned! Apparently I wasn't paying attention the the usernames lol. I think its a great idea though.
I definitely know what you mean by jumping. Very annoying!
So it's actually realearn that is taking care of the parameter jumping for me. I wonder if having the midi feedback (two way communication) is what's getting rid of the jumps.
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07-25-2018, 12:07 PM
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#10
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 430
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Hmm, sadly I don't have a store with a Twister near me so I can test it out myself. But it does say (no feedback) after the midi knob source type. Does your say (with feedback) or something similar, when you enter learn a source?
Last edited by Tiggerdyret; 07-25-2018 at 12:16 PM.
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07-25-2018, 07:45 PM
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#11
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 998
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiggerdyret
Hmm, sadly I don't have a store with a Twister near me so I can test it out myself. But it does say (no feedback) after the midi knob source type. Does your say (with feedback) or something similar, when you enter learn a source?
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Actually no, I don't get that at all.
Did you choose a "feedback device"?
I tried to upload a screenshot of my settings but I am failing hard with the uploading for this forum. But basically I have chosen my feedback device. And then on the edit tabs within the mapping, on the top row there are checkboxes for "control enabled" and "feedback" enabled those are both checked (and they were for me by default)
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07-26-2018, 04:22 AM
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#12
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 430
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjewellstudios
Actually no, I don't get that at all.
Did you choose a "feedback device"?
I tried to upload a screenshot of my settings but I am failing hard with the uploading for this forum. But basically I have chosen my feedback device. And then on the edit tabs within the mapping, on the top row there are checkboxes for "control enabled" and "feedback" enabled those are both checked (and they were for me by default)
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Yes, I've enabled all of those, so it's probably because my Beatstep isn't sending back feedback.
For pics try: https://imgur.com/
By the way, do you suffer from crashes with Realearn? I mainly get them, when I'm copying the Realearn to other tracks or move them in the chain. It happens every 5 minutes or so, when I'm messing around with Realearn.
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07-26-2018, 04:32 AM
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#13
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 998
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Yes I did experience some crashing related to realearn. When copying a realearn instance or duplicating a track with realearn on it. It wasn't all the time so I never bothered to mention it to Helgoboss.
But since I moved from using realearn on every track to this new setup I haven't crashed at all. I actually have another instance of realearn mapping a behringer tc64 to actions as well so two realearn instances and no crashes.
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07-26-2018, 06:34 AM
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#14
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 430
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I think you've convinced me to turn in my Beatstep for a Twister and use your setup method. Realearn can't be used for groups atm, but I think opening/closing plugins with hotkeys like you do is the best solution anyway.
How is the fine/coarse mode working in your setup? Does it work like expected?
I want to say this is my last question, but it probably isn't ... Is it possible to map more than 32 buttons to a plugin? Is it just a matter of adding another instance of LBX's plugin and map Realearn to that? Omnisphere has a lot of knobs
Thanks again for taking your time to respond. Reaper does really have an amazing community!
Last edited by Tiggerdyret; 07-26-2018 at 06:41 AM.
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08-01-2018, 09:30 AM
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#15
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 998
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiggerdyret
I think you've convinced me to turn in my Beatstep for a Twister and use your setup method. Realearn can't be used for groups atm, but I think opening/closing plugins with hotkeys like you do is the best solution anyway.
How is the fine/coarse mode working in your setup? Does it work like expected?
I want to say this is my last question, but it probably isn't ... Is it possible to map more than 32 buttons to a plugin? Is it just a matter of adding another instance of LBX's plugin and map Realearn to that? Omnisphere has a lot of knobs
Thanks again for taking your time to respond. Reaper does really have an amazing community!
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Sorry for the delay!!!
Yeah you can map a crazy amount of paramaters. That little faderbox plugin can do way more than that and then you could potentially just add another if you needed it. You probably already know that though through research on your own.
I actually don't use that function (I can test it out for you though!)
With the twister, basically you can map an encoder to one thing and then you can pick from a list of functions for when you press the encoder down (and turn) it can be the fine mode like you said, or it can control a whole other parameter.
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08-02-2018, 03:25 AM
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#16
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 430
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjewellstudios
Sorry for the delay!!!
Yeah you can map a crazy amount of paramaters. That little faderbox plugin can do way more than that and then you could potentially just add another if you needed it. You probably already know that though through research on your own.
I actually don't use that function (I can test it out for you though!)
With the twister, basically you can map an encoder to one thing and then you can pick from a list of functions for when you press the encoder down (and turn) it can be the fine mode like you said, or it can control a whole other parameter.
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No worries. I did order it, but I think I'll be very happy with it.
My question on the fine vs coarse was geared specifically to Reaper. I don't see how it could do that with standard midi, but it could be using NRPN, then it would probably work. But I'll test it out when I get and see if it works as intended in Reaper.
Well, thanks for all the help. I'l probably make a post here when I'm all set.
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08-02-2018, 02:07 PM
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#17
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 1,651
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjewellstudios
feel free to PM me or continue here. I'd love to help if I can.
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Hey there, I have stumbled on this thread and read through the others. I honestly can't quite understand between the 3 different things to use, where to put them, the order, etc. I get there is realearn, smart control, and faderbox. But what to put where and when and how is not clear.
Do you think you can post a write up? it looks awesome and all the feedback looks good, but I just can't figure it out based on the forums or the instructions.
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08-12-2018, 02:22 AM
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#18
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 998
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poetnprophet
Hey there, I have stumbled on this thread and read through the others. I honestly can't quite understand between the 3 different things to use, where to put them, the order, etc. I get there is realearn, smart control, and faderbox. But what to put where and when and how is not clear.
Do you think you can post a write up? it looks awesome and all the feedback looks good, but I just can't figure it out based on the forums or the instructions.
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I really wish I would get notifications to whatever thread I'm active on! I know I can do it manually and I'm subbed to about 30 threads at this point but I forgot to do this one.
And yeah, I can make a proper post about all of this. My time is fairly limited but I will try to get to this within a couple days!
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08-12-2018, 04:28 AM
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#19
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Black Forest
Posts: 5,067
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Much appreciated cjewellstudios!
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08-12-2018, 06:38 AM
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#20
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 430
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjewellstudios
I really wish I would get notifications to whatever thread I'm active on! I know I can do it manually and I'm subbed to about 30 threads at this point but I forgot to do this one.
And yeah, I can make a proper post about all of this. My time is fairly limited but I will try to get to this within a couple days!
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Yeah, I actually sent you a PM, but I may have messed that up. Anyway thanks for the effort. I'l start messing with it soon, but I have tasked myself to finish Syntorial before I start playing with my new gear as a little carrot. If I get it running before you post here I'll try to post my own setup guide.
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08-12-2018, 06:40 AM
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#21
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 998
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiggerdyret
Yeah, I actually sent you a PM, but I may have messed that up. Anyway thanks for the effort. I'l start messing with it soon, but I have tasked myself to finish Syntorial before I start playing with my new gear as a little carrot. If I get it running before you post here I'll try to post my own setup guide.
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Yeah that's actually why I saw this! I got the message! We'll talk soon.
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08-12-2018, 08:05 PM
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#22
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 998
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My Midi Controller Setup
I use the smartknob script from lb0. They only difference is I used Realearn instead of native midi learn to map my controller to the faderbox plugin. What that actually looks like in my session is:
You need a control track named __LBX_SKCTL (because that's the name that the script specifically looks for)
Put realearn on the input fx of that track and Faderbox in the regular fx chain. Right click on the record button and set it to "Recording disabled (input monitoring only)" and set your controller as the midi input. Leave the record button on (so it's always listening to your controller)
Use Realearn to map your controller to faderbox. I have 32 mappings (faders in faderbox) just because on my midi twister, I have 16 double purpose knobs (push and turn sends a different CC)
Feedback settings:
On Realearn - make sure your "feedback device" is set to the same controller you mapped to faderbox
On faderbox - Send midi feedback pulldown menu to "No" (I don't think the rest of the settings matter as they mostly have to do with the feedback)
When you run the Smart Knobs script, a GUI comes up (as long as you have the control track named properly) and from there whatever plugin is focused is what the GUI is displaying. Then you just click on an empty box in the gui and pick a parameter and it's mapped to that particular number fader in faderbox that you are controlling with realearn. lol There are alot of moving parts here, but basically it should be working now and all you have to do now is map the plugins you want to and rejoice
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I actually have one other script I am taking complete advantage of here:
LBX FX Positioner: https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=199400
What this does is make your plugins pop up in the same place every time. It comes with 4 scripts essentially. (Show FX, Next FX, Previous FX, Setup) AND lB0 actually added a functionality that allows us to focus the fx as we scroll through them! The smart knob script only works on one plugin at a time and it has to be focused. So setting this script up allows you to do the following:
You have a track selected (kick for example) you can run the action to show fx, the first fx pops up. Make your adjustments, run the action for next fx, the next fx pops up and it is automatically focused and ready to be controlled with your controller.
There is a sort of hidden setting in this script. You have to right click the setup button in the setup gui. Where it says "auto focus arrange..." you need to uncheck that. That way the plugins are focused as you scroll through them. I also put it on single so it does one plugin at a time.
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Specific to the midi twister: As far as I'm concerned there is a tiny bug (although I don't think they think it's one lol.) Above I mentioned a push and turn on a knob sends a different CC. They are called "shift encoders" and you have to set that up with the midi fighter utility. Anyhow, the bug is that you can't change the midi channel of the "shift CC" so for me the regular knobs are on channel 1 (this can be modified) and the shift encoders are on midi channel 5 (this cannot be modified). And it's quite a pain getting them to map correctly (in both native learn and realearn) because you have to go in and edit the mappings specifically to say what channel and cc it is and that it's an encoder.
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One more cool thing before I go. My faderport has some unused buttons so with the help of the faderport xt extension I was able to map the LBX FX Postioner actions to the faderport. So now I have nice hardware buttons and nice hardware knobs to navigate through and control plugins all for a pretty affordable price. I spent way too much time figuring this out but I'm really glad I did.
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I'm subbed to this thread now so you can reply here if you need help or DM me. I'd love to help.
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08-13-2018, 11:52 AM
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#23
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 430
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Thanks man, can't wait to try it out.
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08-19-2018, 08:40 AM
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#24
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 430
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I set it all up today and it works like a charm
I also want to make the benefits of Smart Knobs clear. The reasons why it is a good tool for midi control are:
1. It routes the parameters to every instance of vst, so you only need one track to to control every single instance of all your VSTs and you only need to set it up once for every type of plugin you use and it will automatically control other instances of this same plugin.
2. You get an clean overview of what you are controlling and what knobs correspond to what parameters in the Smart Knobs script gui. I've docked the GUI, so I know where to look.
3. It also has some automation benefits, which I have not looked at yet.
4. It is a bit faster to setup up for each plugin after the initial setup.
5. It has higher resolution faders than native midi... Realearn has this too, so it might not be important.
One thing that I had to find out myself is that you have to select the faderbox plugin in the edit section of Realearn and then select the f1-f32 from the dropdown menu under the source learn section. If you just learn it by moving the fader in the faderbox script Realearn will actually map to the VST you want to control and not faderbox. It least it did it for me.
I also docked the faderbox plugin, so I always know.
I also have another question. Do I have to save the track as a template/FX-chain every time I make changes or map a new VST to the faderbox plugin or is it saved in the Reaper setting?
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08-19-2018, 11:54 AM
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#25
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 998
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiggerdyret
I also have another question. Do I have to save the track as a template/FX-chain every time I make changes or map a new VST to the faderbox plugin or is it saved in the Reaper setting?
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Why are you mapping vsts to faderbox? Or do you mean the script gui (which I guess is the same thing so I get why you are saying it)
No need to dock the faderbox plugin (at least I dont see a need) when you are docking the more informative script gui
Also whenever you map a vst you hit save on the script gui, and it remembers it without having to save a track template. Something that tripped me up was you have to map the mono and stereo versions of vsts separately if they come up separately in your plugin list. Like the SSL e-channel for instance, the mono and stereo versions of the plug had to be mapped separately.
In this case, I think we are using realearn's finer resolution because that's what is controlling faderbox.
Either way, super glad you got this set up. I feel like if this were more accessible/easier to implement, people would love it!
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08-19-2018, 03:28 PM
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#26
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Krefeld, Germany
Posts: 14,781
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Search the forums for "surface".
-Michael
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08-19-2018, 04:04 PM
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#27
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 998
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mschnell
Search the forums for "surface".
-Michael
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Hey Michael,
(I'm not the OP btw) I assume you are speaking of Geoff Waddington's Control Surface Integration. I haven't dug into it partly because that thread is incredibly large, but also in part because the solution above is really elegant. Midi feedback, super fine control, and no parameter jumps. What Geoff is doing looks cool on the surface (see what I did there??) and I wish him well on his journey.
I will dive into it sometime but I have already devoted a large amount of time developing my current solution.
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08-19-2018, 05:07 PM
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#28
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Black Forest
Posts: 5,067
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cjewellstudios, thanks a lot for your extensive guide! This sounds like the controlling dream came true
At first, setting it up sounds very complex, but once it is done, it's plug and play, awesome!
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08-19-2018, 06:05 PM
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#29
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 998
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Stevie_
cjewellstudios, thanks a lot for your extensive guide! This sounds like the controlling dream came true
At first, setting it up sounds very complex, but once it is done, it's plug and play, awesome!
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It's really a pleasure to have helped someone set this up! I'd like to bring it to more people's attention but like you've pointed out it's a bit complex and convoluted.
Ooo just thinking out loud here but I wonder if I could set up a zip file with a track template and required scripts.
It would still have quite a few steps. Especially compared to something that is reapack ready. I mean I just heard about realauncher yesterday and it probably took about 5 min to update my repositories and install the script and make the preferred changes.
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08-19-2018, 10:00 PM
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#30
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Krefeld, Germany
Posts: 14,781
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjewellstudios
I assume you are speaking of Geoff Waddington's Control Surface Integration.
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Not only this one. There are "surface" (-device) options in Reaper out of the box, there are scripts, and there are multiple discussions on that issue.
-Michael
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08-20-2018, 01:56 AM
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#31
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Black Forest
Posts: 5,067
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjewellstudios
It's really a pleasure to have helped someone set this up! I'd like to bring it to more people's attention but like you've pointed out it's a bit complex and convoluted.
Ooo just thinking out loud here but I wonder if I could set up a zip file with a track template and required scripts.
It would still have quite a few steps. Especially compared to something that is reapack ready. I mean I just heard about realauncher yesterday and it probably took about 5 min to update my repositories and install the script and make the preferred changes.
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Actually, it would simplify things, if all the LBX scripts were available thru ReaPack.
I guess,a short GIF how to set up everything would suffice for must people here.
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08-20-2018, 04:59 AM
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#32
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 430
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@cjewellstudios:
I needed to map to the faderbox plugin and not the gui script. When I moved the gui fader after hitting learn source it learned the synth parameter and not the Faderbox parameter.
But I did dock the gui not the faderbox plugin I don't even think you can dock separate plugins without docking the fx-window itself. I would actually very much like to do that for BFD3 since I use it's editor to make drum-grooves and often make changes to that.
@Stevie
You are right, but I really hate tutorials in GIF form. Youtube, where you can easily start, stop and change the speed works much better. I know you can click to see the control on GIFs, but that doesn't always work for me.
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08-20-2018, 05:15 AM
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#33
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Black Forest
Posts: 5,067
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Well, yes, you are right concerning the GIFs
Today, i started to map everything to my Steinberg CMC-QC controller. It features 8 continuous encoder with LED, pretty much the same, as the Twister.
However, I experience a really strange behavior here. Some encoder work and others just transmit a toggle value (the faders in the faderbox plugin jump from 0-1). Then, when re-learning them, they work again. It seems intermittent and I have no idea,what the problem could be. And MIDI feedback, unfortunately, does not work at all with this device.
Did you guys experience so,etching similar with the Twister, or does this work flawlessly?
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08-20-2018, 05:47 AM
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#34
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 430
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Stevie_
Well, yes, you are right concerning the GIFs
Today, i started to map everything to my Steinberg CMC-QC controller. It features 8 continuous encoder with LED, pretty much the same, as the Twister.
However, I experience a really strange behavior here. Some encoder work and others just transmit a toggle value (the faders in the faderbox plugin jump from 0-1). Then, when re-learning them, they work again. It seems intermittent and I have no idea,what the problem could be. And MIDI feedback, unfortunately, does not work at all with this device.
Did you guys experience so,etching similar with the Twister, or does this work flawlessly?
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Yes, I had that problem, but only while mapping so far (I think), so it hasn't changed back or stopped working, but I haven't been messing enough with it to say anything with certainty.
No, midi feedback is a rare thing and the main reason why I payed thrice the value for a Midi Fighter Twister vs. some of the cheaper solutions like the Beatstep or X-Touch Mini. That said it has a lot of cool functionality that also makes it worth it's weight in gold. I'm definitely happy and might even shell out for another one down the line.
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08-20-2018, 09:50 AM
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#35
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Black Forest
Posts: 5,067
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Okay, so it's not my device going crazy :P
So, if I understand you correctly, the Twister is one of the rare devices, that
supports MIDI feedback? Okay, that of course makes it very attractive!
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08-20-2018, 10:11 AM
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#36
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 430
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Stevie_
Okay, so it's not my device going crazy :P
So, if I understand you correctly, the Twister is one of the rare devices, that
supports MIDI feedback? Okay, that of course makes it very attractive!
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Yes, it supports feedback and build like a tank, there are many knobs on a fairly small surface, every knob has push down functionality with a lot of different options; like sending out a different cc value when pushed down essentially giving you twice the amount of knobs (16 to 32) or have the parameters be controlled in smaller increments, when pushed down or they can function as a button and many more.
IMO nothing comes close to what this little beast can do in terms of plugin control, if you are willing to shell out.
If you are looking for cheaper options you could try to find a used Behringer BCF2000. Any controller with motorized faders should send feedback too, but I'm not sure if it is common for their encoders to also send feedback.
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08-20-2018, 10:33 AM
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#37
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 998
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Stevie_
Well, yes, you are right concerning the GIFs
Today, i started to map everything to my Steinberg CMC-QC controller. It features 8 continuous encoder with LED, pretty much the same, as the Twister.
However, I experience a really strange behavior here. Some encoder work and others just transmit a toggle value (the faders in the faderbox plugin jump from 0-1). Then, when re-learning them, they work again. It seems intermittent and I have no idea,what the problem could be. And MIDI feedback, unfortunately, does not work at all with this device.
Did you guys experience so,etching similar with the Twister, or does this work flawlessly?
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So I came across this too.
It was alot of fiddling around but basically after you make the mapping in realearn to faderbox, click on edit mapping.
In there you find all the intricate details of what's going on. I sometimes had to go in and set it to encoder and absolute (in their respective dropdown menus) instead switch and toggle.
Midi feedback should definitely work on your device (although I dont think it will be very useful)
What changes on your device is the brightness of the LED. So the higher the value, the more intense the color.
Make sure you've chosen the qmc controller in the midi feedback device dropdown on the top of the realearn gui.
I don't think the midi twister is one of those "rare devices" that can accept midi feedback. Anything usb midi is already able to have two way communication. I think it just comes down to how the daw decides to implement that.
Also @Tiggerdyret
I think there maybe something missing in your setup, I'm not at my studio right now but it sounds like you are having to jump through hoops I didn't experience. I could be wrong, it's really hard to communicate clearly on this when there is so much going on. I'm not at my pc though to look at some of my settings or test some of the troubles you mentioned.
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08-20-2018, 10:57 AM
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#38
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 430
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I've researched and tried many of the cheaper devices with continuous encoders like the Akai MPD218, Beatstep and X-Touch Mini and they don't have feedback. Or at least not feedback that works with Reaper. But the professional grade midi control surfaces and mixers, that any serious studio has probably all have feedback.
The drop down menu is not that big of a deal, but the way it works is that when I hit learn source in Realearn and move the gui script's fader Realearn connects directly to the plugin parameter that the gui hooks into and not the gui/faderbox itself. This of course result in the whole faderbox+gui script being circumvented. Maybe it's an update to the script or Realearn, but I have to manually pick the plugin under the edit menu in Realearn and then select the fader f1-f32 from the dropdown menu too. It not that big a deal took me 5 minutes to map all 16 faders... Probably spent more time writing this post
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08-20-2018, 11:10 AM
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#39
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 998
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiggerdyret
The drop down menu is not that big of a deal, but the way it works is that when I hit learn source in Realearn and move the gui script's fader Realearn connects directly to the plugin parameter that the gui hooks into and not the gui/faderbox itself. This of course result in the whole faderbox+gui script being circumvented. Maybe it's an update to the script or Realearn, but I have to manually pick the plugin under the edit menu in Realearn and then select the fader f1-f32 from the dropdown menu too. It not that big a deal took me 5 minutes to map all 16 faders... Probably spent more time writing this post
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This is the part that's throwing me for a loop.
Mapping realearn to faderbox should be done first and it should only have to happen once.
If you come up on that situation again, I would suggest to do the faderbox mapping in an empty session without the script running.
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08-20-2018, 12:12 PM
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#40
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 430
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjewellstudios
This is the part that's throwing me for a loop.
Mapping realearn to faderbox should be done first and it should only have to happen once.
If you come up on that situation again, I would suggest to do the faderbox mapping in an empty session without the script running.
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I only did it once, so no problem there. As far as I can see there are no faders to map the parameters to in the gui, when no plugin is selected.
Last edited by Tiggerdyret; 08-20-2018 at 12:31 PM.
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