Old 10-23-2014, 05:06 PM   #2401
BanjoChris
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 17
Default

I think both sides are right and are actually talking about different things. A good song is a good song and people will respond to it. Better gear sounds better.

I wouldn't go as far as to say "gear doesn't matter", though. If the recording is such total crap that it's distracting then people won't want to listen to it. Otherwise I think people can "fill in the blanks", so to speak, in their minds and not get hung up on the fidelity of the recording.

The problem with "mega hits", especially in the last 20 years is that, please don't be offended, the content sucks. There is not one Justin Bieber song that is worth even the plastic shrinkwrap around a Beatles album . .so all that's left for the Beebs is high production value (and his "image"). The proverbial (well) polished turd . .and people eat it up. Justin Beiber could not make a hit on sub-par gear - especially if people couldn't see him and they could just hear the songs.

On the other hand, I love old time fiddle and banjo tunes. Some of the absolute greatest players of all time can only be heard (in their prime at least) on albums that sound terrible. So bad you can barely even hear what they're playing. Just a mess of screeching fiddles and background hiss and feet stomping the floor and who knows what else.

For however great these players are/where, I can't listen to it. Very few people can. So there's a case of great musicians playing great songs and it sounds like a bag of cats in a washing machine. Too bad they didn't have an mBox or whatever, lol.
BanjoChris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2014, 02:32 AM   #2402
ivansc
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Near Cambridge UK and Near Questembert, France
Posts: 19,051
Default

I have my new critical descriptive!!!


QUOTE: sounds like a bag of cats in a washing machine

You have made my day.
ivansc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2014, 03:35 AM   #2403
morgon
Human being with feelings
 
morgon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: 'straya
Posts: 9,073
Default

Better to skin them first, then wash the pelts imo.
morgon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2014, 05:03 AM   #2404
alanofoz
Human being with feelings
 
alanofoz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Oz - Blue Mountains NSW, formerly Geelong
Posts: 744
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by morgon View Post
Better to skin them first
Can you suggest a few ways to do that?
__________________
It's "its" except when it's "it is".

bunyipmusic.com
alanofoz is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2014, 06:40 AM   #2405
Lawrence
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 21,513
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BanjoChris View Post
I think both sides are right and are actually talking about different things. A good song is a good song and people will respond to it. Better gear sounds better.
It does. I'm sure that Yep, who's probably the best single contributor to this thread, has some good gear.

The thing is that you have to view "home studio" recording in context. For the most part we're recording really good demos because we start out with multiple practical disadvantages, not the least of which is not being able to afford the talents of other skilled professionals.

Not having better gear is only one of the many small disadvantages when comparing what we do to what happens at the higher levels. We also produce, arrange, mix, and master our own music, which is almost never as good as a succession of skilled people doing those individual things... and all along the way we often use affordable consumer level tools... in inferior rooms... with less overall experience.

Only really abnormally musically skilled people, like Prince, could probably pull that off working mostly by himself. For the rest of us, we're really happy if we sell 200 copies in a year on Bandcamp or iTunes.

It's largely why almost nobody produces an album at home and sells 500,000 copies. A rapper can go to a good project studio, finance his own album, and sell 50-70k copies though... if he's really good... and has a good music producer with some hot beats.

It's analogous to me playing against the NY Knicks, by myself, when they have a team of skilled players at every position, while I'm playing guard, center, forward, and also coaching myself. The gaps accumulate at every stage.

We do this mostly for pleasure. We make our music to enjoy the ride and to enjoy the accomplishment, not to compete in the market with songs being produced by R. Kelly or similar, that stuff (some of it) is really excellent.

I guess the point is, with work and study and practice and decent tools (which we all have) it's not very hard not to sound like ass... to not just suck... but that's not (or maybe shouldn't be) the goal, to not suck... the goal of most is to sound really, really great... which is a wee bit harder... and often a good bit more costly.

Last edited by Lawrence; 10-24-2014 at 08:28 AM.
Lawrence is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2014, 02:26 PM   #2406
technogremlin
Human being with feelings
 
technogremlin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 2,606
Default

A great song recorded on crap gear, will still sound like a great song.... and still sound like it was recorded on crap gear !

However, 'budget' gear does not equal 'crap' gear. You can absolutely do stellar recordings and mixes in a budget home studio. Besides that, lots of commercial (and successful) recordings today don't involve 'large analog consoles' at all: stuff is being recorded straight into protools and the likes, and mixed with plugins only. This is the same technology and plugins that we have access to within the 'budget' realm of things. And with even all the DYI stuff available on the acoustics side of things (think basetraps and such), we do actually have 'budget' access to pretty high-end stuff these days.

Now, if anyone can get me a impulse-response of the famous Sound Citty live room (now Fairfax Studio)....
technogremlin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2014, 05:09 PM   #2407
endorka
Human being with feelings
 
endorka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 441
Default

I already mentioned the difference the guidance in this thread from Yep and others has made to my recordings, but the proof of the pudding is in the eating! I composed the music for this short film trailer, recorded and mixed in my home studio;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8Fvq...ature=youtu.be

Interested to hear your thoughts on it.

Jennifer
__________________
Producer | Arranger | Composer | Bass guitar | Double bass
Web: www.jenclarkmusic.com
endorka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2014, 06:24 AM   #2408
Fex
Human being with feelings
 
Fex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Portsmouth, UK
Posts: 3,370
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by endorka View Post
Interested to hear your thoughts on it.
Love to share them, though you should perhaps start a dedicated thread, because this doesn't sound like ass (except for being on YouTube). It does look like ass, of course.

The piano's very nice. It's out of tune with the organ (which bleeds beautifully from the guitar) and the bass, but so far, not in a bad way. It's easy to fix, though, and worth doing IMHO.

The title Blue Hour has been used at least twice for movies. I saw a French film called L'heure Bleu ass a kid, and looking for it later, could only find some strange German gay romance drama thing....
Fex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2014, 08:30 AM   #2409
endorka
Human being with feelings
 
endorka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 441
Default

Thanks Fex, much appreciated. This particular recording may not sound like ass, but my efforts prior to reading this thread most assuredly did. I could not get them to click and "sound like a proper record", as a friend of mine puts it. Nor did they translate well on other audio systems.

That's some ears you have - I hadn't noticed the piano tuning, but since you mentioned it I had a closer listen and you're right enough. I think it wasn't too noticeable/offsensive because of the reverb & modulation effects going on in the mix. The piano ("Wurly Stage"), synth bass and organ are all from SampleTank 3. Checking them all with reatune reveals that many of the piano notes are a little sharp. A small adjustment to the fine tuning of the instrument in the sample edit improved it.

Jennifer
__________________
Producer | Arranger | Composer | Bass guitar | Double bass
Web: www.jenclarkmusic.com
endorka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2014, 09:29 PM   #2410
yep
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,012
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rbrando View Post
did anyone ever resolve the original question?
The answer is different for every person whose recordings sound like ass. The question is too broad to have a generic answer.

But oftentimes (I think most of the time), if you can narrow down the question correctly, the answer becomes immediately obvious. Sometimes that process takes years, maybe even decades of philosophical and scientific exploration. Other times, it's just because you were recording with the line/mic switch in the wrong position.

But most of the time, I think it comes down to some combination of bad monitoring technique, bad gain-staging, relying on gear/effects/plugins versus the plain evidence of your ears and senses, and/or failure to follow basic good studio and instrument practices.
yep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2014, 07:46 AM   #2411
endorka
Human being with feelings
 
endorka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 441
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by yep View Post
But most of the time, I think it comes down to some combination of bad monitoring technique, bad gain-staging, relying on gear/effects/plugins versus the plain evidence of your ears and senses, and/or failure to follow basic good studio and instrument practices.
Applying the antidote to all of the above, what I find is that the good music happens more often, and the bad music less. Making this routine means that you can capture the good ideas well, while you have them. The mechanics of recording become internalised, like tying your shoe laces, in a sense. The focus goes to the music rather than gear.

Something else I got from this thread was the "finished is better than perfect" concept. As someone who has a tendency to perfectionism, this serves as a good reality check. For example, it encourages doing a lot of mixes / arrangements / compositions, rather than spending a year trying to make one perfect. After working on several projects, the faults with the earlier ones tend to be obvious, and the fixes clearer, than they would have been with an entire year spent on the one.

Jennifer
__________________
Producer | Arranger | Composer | Bass guitar | Double bass
Web: www.jenclarkmusic.com
endorka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2014, 08:29 AM   #2412
Fex
Human being with feelings
 
Fex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Portsmouth, UK
Posts: 3,370
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by endorka View Post
The mechanics of recording become internalised, like tying your shoe laces, in a sense. The focus goes to the music rather than gear.
I've recently come to suspect that the reason I find some aspects of recording and editing tiring and occasionally stressful is to do with brain hemispheres. Both hemispheres contribute to the process of making music, but the more the more the mechanics are internalised, the less work the left hemisphere has to do, allowing the right hemisphere to be creative without me feeling like my head's going to explode.
Fex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2014, 10:36 PM   #2413
KMFrye
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 22
Default

Something else I got from this thread was the "finished is better than perfect" concept.
Jennifer[/QUOTE]

I'm taking Jennifer out of context a bit, but she used a phrase that resonates with me. But I want to take it one step further. Often,"finished" should be when it sounds "just right", and that is not always when it sounds "perfect".

My mother was a recording artist back during WW2 and into the early 50's (until I came along). Often, her records were done in just one or two takes, with the entire orchestra in the same room and only one or two mikes! This was the norm in those days. Mom was treated no differently than Bing Crosby or Rosie Clooney.

There is a spontaneity to those old records that is lost in today's clinically "perfect" recordings, with everything pitch corrected, time adjusted, and with duets recorded at different times by vocalists who never actually meet.

Today's recordings may be technically "better", but aurally, they're just not "alive". Too much time is spent on perfecting them, not enough on allowing the musicians to just be musicians.

Most every recording I've ever done has contained one or two tiny flaws, usually in the rhythm section (nothing big- small timing errors, very minor tuning glitches, a drum stick that clips the rim once,that sort of thing) that are there for the hearing. I like leaving them alone, so long as they don't truly affect the listener. Could I fix them? Yup. But I leave 'em in.

Last edited by KMFrye; 11-22-2014 at 10:49 PM.
KMFrye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2014, 12:19 AM   #2414
ivansc
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Near Cambridge UK and Near Questembert, France
Posts: 19,051
Default

All well and good but the tune I just posted on Soundcloud has pops and crackles all over it.
Couldnt really hear them that much before I mixed it down and rendered to MP3, but on listening AFTER I posted it, aagh!
Whilst I am no perfectionist and this IS just rough version, it would be reassuring to know that stuff I put out is at least technically correct!
Part of the problem is me being deaf as a post in one ear and partially deaf in the other, but it does beg the question "how do I compensate for my rose-coloured ears hen assessing my own work"?
ivansc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2014, 09:31 AM   #2415
Big Al Rocks
Human being with feelings
 
Big Al Rocks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Evansville, IN
Posts: 70
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KMFrye View Post
There is a spontaneity to those old records that is lost in today's clinically "perfect" recordings, with everything pitch corrected, time adjusted, and with duets recorded at different times by vocalists who never actually meet.
Totally agree with this!
Big Al Rocks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2014, 09:35 AM   #2416
karbomusic
Human being with feelings
 
karbomusic's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 24,889
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Al Rocks View Post
Totally agree with this!
I have grown to nearly despise perfect. I didn't know that "back in the day" but I do now since it's the flaws that provide true beauty and perfection minus flaws = mundane. Odd how that turns out to be true.
__________________
If it requires a null test to find it, it is by definition minuscule.
karbomusic is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2014, 09:55 AM   #2417
whiteaxxxe
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: United States of Europe, Germany, M÷nchengladbach
Posts: 2,047
Default

this todays clinical perfection I disgust to the bone.

but that doesnt mean that "imperfections" are flaws. never. what we call nowadays imperfections are the character. because I heard today some old albums from T.Rex, I thought about: would someone with such a voice (Marc Bolan) get a record contract? is his singing "imperfect"? or is it him? simply him with all what is to his character.

so he wouldnt get a contract, not with all these disgusting idiotic talent shows going on, where "good singing" is interpreted as coloratur sopran.

so I dont let the term "imperfection" go, because that would imply "he/she/it cant do it right". and therefor its not a flaw when someone sings like Marc Bolan. or Donovan or Robert Plant or John Lennon or or or ...

and because we can make it nowadays all "right", we dont have to do it. lets define first what that means, to do it "right". woukld Marc Bolan or someone else get into a recall? in the days where a Justin Bieber is considered to do it "right"? no way ... so get your conclusions from that.

its not about perfection or flaws. its about the definition of what is "perfect" and what is a "flaw". and these definitions are completely fucked up. all the great blues singers sing "wrong" in nowadays terms. think about that ... the environment for music has changed, and more and more people become driven away by that chart-bullshit.
whiteaxxxe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2014, 10:18 AM   #2418
karbomusic
Human being with feelings
 
karbomusic's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 24,889
Default

Quote:
but that doesnt mean that "imperfections" are flaws. never
It kind of does mean that since they are "loosely" synonyms and flaw is an antonym of perfection. One could argue the finer points of the differences between the two but it would be more of an exercise in semantics and over analyzing than differences in intended meaning. Which translates to they are close enough that we can likely all agree that no matter what we call it, it's missing from lots of commercial mundane music as of late.
__________________
If it requires a null test to find it, it is by definition minuscule.
karbomusic is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2014, 11:39 AM   #2419
endorka
Human being with feelings
 
endorka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 441
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KMFrye View Post
I'm taking Jennifer out of context a bit, but she used a phrase that resonates with me. But I want to take it one step further. Often,"finished" should be when it sounds "just right", and that is not always when it sounds "perfect".

My mother was a recording artist back during WW2 and into the early 50's (until I came along). Often, her records were done in just one or two takes, with the entire orchestra in the same room and only one or two mikes! This was the norm in those days. Mom was treated no differently than Bing Crosby or Rosie Clooney.

There is a spontaneity to those old records that is lost in today's clinically "perfect" recordings, with everything pitch corrected, time adjusted, and with duets recorded at different times by vocalists who never actually meet.

Today's recordings may be technically "better", but aurally, they're just not "alive". Too much time is spent on perfecting them, not enough on allowing the musicians to just be musicians.
Indeed. Are any of you mother's recordings available to listen to online? It would be interesting to hear them!

I was listening to track the other that exemplifies that which you describe. I'd love to know the who, when, where, and how of this recording, Benny Goodman's "Sing Sing Sing";

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2S1I_ien6A

Jennifer
__________________
Producer | Arranger | Composer | Bass guitar | Double bass
Web: www.jenclarkmusic.com
endorka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2014, 01:16 PM   #2420
serr
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,381
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by whiteaxxxe View Post
this todays clinical perfection I disgust to the bone.

but that doesnt mean that "imperfections" are flaws. never. what we call nowadays imperfections are the character. because I heard today some old albums from T.Rex, I thought about: would someone with such a voice (Marc Bolan) get a record contract? is his singing "imperfect"? or is it him? simply him with all what is to his character.

so he wouldnt get a contract, not with all these disgusting idiotic talent shows going on, where "good singing" is interpreted as coloratur sopran.

so I dont let the term "imperfection" go, because that would imply "he/she/it cant do it right". and therefor its not a flaw when someone sings like Marc Bolan. or Donovan or Robert Plant or John Lennon or or or ...

and because we can make it nowadays all "right", we dont have to do it. lets define first what that means, to do it "right". woukld Marc Bolan or someone else get into a recall? in the days where a Justin Bieber is considered to do it "right"? no way ... so get your conclusions from that.

its not about perfection or flaws. its about the definition of what is "perfect" and what is a "flaw". and these definitions are completely fucked up. all the great blues singers sing "wrong" in nowadays terms. think about that ... the environment for music has changed, and more and more people become driven away by that chart-bullshit.
People are driven away from simpleton bs. I wouldn't call nuance an imperfection or a flaw. I'd like to suggest that the nuance that people nowadays like to call 'imperfections' or 'flaws' is nothing of the kind! There is all kinds of subtlety in music. Grace notes and scooping pitch being two very obvious examples. There has been musical notation to describe many very subtle details for a long time.

Music with a lot of expression and energy contains a lot of subtlety (just like real life). A demo from a Casio keyboard or a simple drum loop pasted to a crude grid sounds simple/childish because it lacks subtlety, not because someone wants to hear performance mistakes. This isn't to suggest something simple cannot be good. Sometimes a very mechanical simple drum machine beat has a certain charm or vibe that would be lost if it were to be more embellished. Just the suggestion that we crave to hear imperfections is WAY off base!

Last edited by serr; 11-24-2014 at 01:21 PM.
serr is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2014, 01:23 PM   #2421
karbomusic
Human being with feelings
 
karbomusic's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 24,889
Default

Quote:
Just the suggestion that we crave to hear imperfections is WAY off base!
Of all the stuff I've ever recorded or even been a part of recording throughout my entire life (that's a long time)... The ones with the imperfections and things the band thought and were outright mistakes, were always the ones most loved by the audience and the most enduring songs.

Humans, on the surface crave perfection but they long for character and uniqueness which perfection simply doesn't provide. It's that itty bitty scar on your Ex's face you miss more than their surface good looks every time. It's a strange thing really, we are conditioned to only except perfect yet it's the non-perfect that keeps us up late and crying in our beer at the end of the day.
__________________
If it requires a null test to find it, it is by definition minuscule.
karbomusic is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2014, 02:48 PM   #2422
serr
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,381
Default

I agree with that observation 100%. What I'm saying is that what people are calling 'imperfection' is actually wanted content. And further, calling something perfect because it lacks this content is what's off base. On the contrary, it's actually very juvenile music. Far from perfection.
serr is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2014, 10:57 AM   #2423
grinder
Human being with feelings
 
grinder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 2,101
Default

For me tone is important what I agree with is that good materialre song and instrumentals is a great start and a big thing. This said having a great"sound" is really important to and can be done relatively cheaply with a bit of effort.
I just completed a studio for myself helped by a builder and info re dimensions off the web. I also acoustically insulated the two rooms of the studio.
Similar can be done at far less cost by building booths in space challenged houses.
The difference to my work is astonishing and the resultant sound speaks I think for itself.
I dropped this on Sound cloud this rough mix has no reverb, delays or the like just a UAD 456 on the master.
https://soundcloud.com/steve-maitland-1/kicking-about
Room treatment I wish I had done (if I bothered looking back) straight after I purchased my first guitar!

Grinder
grinder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2014, 09:22 AM   #2424
burrahobbit
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 10
Default

Hello there! While I registered in the forum with the idea of more than doing this, I want my first post to be a huge thank you to guys like yep and smurf, whose contribution in this thread has been invaluable. Many thanks for sharing your knowledge, it's been really helpful to me!
burrahobbit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2014, 09:25 AM   #2425
Fex
Human being with feelings
 
Fex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Portsmouth, UK
Posts: 3,370
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by burrahobbit View Post
I want my first post to be a huge thank you to guys like yep and smurf, whose contribution in this thread has been invaluable.
That's what we like to see....
Welcome aboard!
Fex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2014, 01:58 PM   #2426
Ghaak
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 2
Default

Hello everyone

I just registered to thank yep and smurf and the other contributors for this golden thread. I'm only up to page 41 though, but the first few pages is the key. Common sense which I forgot for so long.

I want to mainly thank yep. Your fundamental approach is truly eye (ear) opening. My music and productions thereof have improved massively because of this.

-Make sure the music you're playing is worth recording first of all (not talking about recording a long experimental take etc)
-Record the best performance of it whether it be a vocal piece, drums, a guitar or a VST synth, the latter being most applicable to me
-LISTEN

I cannot thank you enough.

EDIT: I love EQ shaping across the board now. It makes me think of a sculpture - you take away from the material to show your creation. How wonderful! You create dynamics in exactly the same way with mixing. Defining your "sculpture" by chipping away at superfluous frequencies.

Last edited by Ghaak; 12-27-2014 at 02:09 PM.
Ghaak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2014, 02:17 PM   #2427
Fex
Human being with feelings
 
Fex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Portsmouth, UK
Posts: 3,370
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghaak View Post
Hello everyone
Hi, and welcome!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghaak View Post
My music and productions thereof have improved massively because of this.
So.... why do your recordings sound like Ghaak?
Fex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2014, 02:22 PM   #2428
Ghaak
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 2
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fex View Post
Hi, and welcome!

So.... why do your recordings sound like Ghaak?

It used to sound like shit because of mainly:

mixing too loudly
no EQing at all
arrogance
instrumentation
accepting poor first takes

Gha'ak I think is a Klingon delicacy.

Last edited by Ghaak; 12-27-2014 at 02:30 PM.
Ghaak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2015, 07:45 AM   #2429
pkev
Human being with feelings
 
pkev's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 62
Default Bridging the Gap - knowledge

Hi

It's probably only in the last 4/5 years I've begun to truly understand the process of mixing and recording and be able to apply it in music making and I've been playing music for 40 Years.

It has to be said that I'm more of a live sound mixing engineer / musician than recording engineer / musician.

Possibly like many other Small Studio / Bedroom recording musicians, my background is your average gigging musician, doing clubs , functions, small concerts etc using my own small PA system (HK Audio 1K rig) with Behringer UB 2442 FX Pro Desk and standard mics etc.

Bearing in mind the venues I used to play and the size of the stages, I used to think I got a good live sound, although after doing hundreds of gigs and knowing my gear and playing with the musicians etc I would have thought so.

Thing is, with these gigs, I did every one of them without a compressor, gate
graphic EQ and sometimes I didn't even use a separate Pre-amp

I would also get a half decent recording straight from the desk to my Yamaha MD4S Recorder

I still do some gigs without these processors available to me and can still get a decent sound.

In my ignorance, when I bought the desk / gear in my youth, the salesperson never told me that I would need a compressor / limiter / Gate / Graphic / Pre - amp as well!!

So many years later this is where the Gap in my knowledge appeared when it came to recording.

I now know what these processors do and I'm learning when and how to use them.

I'm still very much a `live mixing` person and would like to keep that approach when recording so I will tend to Compress / Limit / Gate on way in

I also appreciate the knowledge that is imparted on threads like this so thanks everyone

Pkev
__________________
ASUS M2V Mobo, AMD Athlon 64, Dual Core 3.6 Ghz CPU, XP Pro
3GB Ram, Presonus FP10, Reaper, Mixcraft 8, Harrison Mixbus, Cubase 5,
1 x 160 GB Int HD, 1 x 230 GB Internal Sata Drive, 160 GB Ext F/W Drive
pkev is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2015, 11:17 AM   #2430
rphillips
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 2
Default dB measurements

First, like a lot of others, thank you, Yep, for a very useful thread. Second, I deal with dB measurements some in my line of work. The technical definition of a dB measurement includes the distance. Officially, dB measurements are made at a distance of one meter. As to the comment about listening position, I am not disagreeing. Let's say your speakers are playing at 83 dB. You will probably find the sound to be most listenable at a distance of one meter from the speakers. If you are two meters away, you will probably turn the speakers up until the sound pressure level at your location is 83 dB. At one meter, the sound level will be more like 86 dB. Of course, the further away you are, the more likely you are going to be to over-drive your speakers and introduce distortion. However, if you double the number of speakers, you increase the sound level. This is how stadium sound system produce high volumes with clear sound, lots of speakers. Also, be aware that there are at least two definitions of dB. One of them is used with a flat EQ. The other, and more useful one for our purposes, is EQ'd to provide a better match to the human ear's EQ response. I forget, at the moment, the designations of the two systems. One is called dBA. I forget what the other is called, or which is which. If you want to learn more, I'm sure a short search on the internet will give you more resources.
rphillips is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2015, 08:42 AM   #2431
Subwayrocket
Human being with feelings
 
Subwayrocket's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Ne Pa
Posts: 22
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by yep View Post

It is important to work fast. Finished is always better than perfect. Always. In more ways than one.

For one thing, you will change your mind about things as the recording develops. There are a thousand steps along the way, and if you get too stuck on one, you lose your inspiration and sense of proportion, you'll get frustrated and your ears will start to burn out, and you will start to hate the song and the sound. Recording it will start to feel like a chore and a burden and that state of mind will show in the finished product, if it ever gets to that state. More likely, the project will become a half-forgotten waste of hard disk space that never gets completed.
I've done exactly that ....I've got them on wasted hard disc space and old data cd's too
Subwayrocket is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2015, 09:58 AM   #2432
tgraph
Human being with feelings
 
tgraph's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Silver City, NM
Posts: 491
Default

Who is this 'yep' person and why is he so smart? A great thread to peruse over and over! I think I've achieved approximately 13% less ass.

Last edited by tgraph; 03-16-2015 at 10:04 AM.
tgraph is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2015, 05:20 PM   #2433
kj4lxw
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: St. Pete, FL
Posts: 50
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by grinder View Post
For me tone is important what I agree with is that good materialre song and instrumentals is a great start and a big thing. This said having a great"sound" is really important to and can be done relatively cheaply with a bit of effort.
I just completed a studio for myself helped by a builder and info re dimensions off the web. I also acoustically insulated the two rooms of the studio.
Similar can be done at far less cost by building booths in space challenged houses.
The difference to my work is astonishing and the resultant sound speaks I think for itself.
I dropped this on Sound cloud this rough mix has no reverb, delays or the like just a UAD 456 on the master.
https://soundcloud.com/steve-maitland-1/kicking-about
Room treatment I wish I had done (if I bothered looking back) straight after I purchased my first guitar!

Grinder
Listened, sounded great!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Subwayrocket View Post
I've done exactly that ....I've got them on wasted hard disc space and old data cd's too
Agreed on Yep's statement. Very much applies to where I am currently.
__________________
My music: www.soundcloud.com/kj4lxw
kj4lxw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2015, 09:10 AM   #2434
bonfilio
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 40
Default

Not sure if mentioned (probably is), weakest link is practice and technique. If you/whatever your recording can't play, no amount of gear will make it better.

[have only read the first of 60+ pages :P]
bonfilio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2015, 07:35 PM   #2435
ringing phone
Human being with feelings
 
ringing phone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 157
Default

A lot of the time the weakest link is because the song just sucks...poorly written, boring changes, terribly sung. Amateur doesn't have to sound like ass but it sure often does!
__________________
nothing to see here
ringing phone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2015, 10:59 PM   #2436
SaulT
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 768
Default

I've read this at least three times now over the last few years, and it seems like each time I absorb some different aspect of it. For me this time the takeaway from a large part of the thread was organization and preparation. If your gear isn't on hand and ready to go, you're not ready. If your cables and mics aren't in order, you're not ready. If you can't find your batteries, your guitars aren't setup and intonated, if you can't seem to find your picks, if you misplaced that one notebook that you keep your notes in.... you're not ready, and you'll be wasting time and be far less efficient in accomplishing anything.

After reflecting about how a few days earlier I'd spent 15 minutes looking for a stupid screwdriver, it inspired me to go on an organizational binge. Y'know, it's really nice knowing where everything is. I highly recommend it!
SaulT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2015, 05:19 PM   #2437
ringing phone
Human being with feelings
 
ringing phone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 157
Default

Organizational binges are a great way to procrastinate
__________________
nothing to see here
ringing phone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2015, 11:54 AM   #2438
stevedcook
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 31
Default day late and dollar short

only just found this and made it through the end. sure glad it's still around. thanks yep and all the posters with valuable info. I'm learning to trust my ears and it's making incredible difference.
stevedcook is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2015, 01:14 PM   #2439
jerome_oneil
Human being with feelings
 
jerome_oneil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Seattle
Posts: 5,335
Default

This thread needs a bump on a semi-regular basis, anyway.
jerome_oneil is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2015, 01:17 PM   #2440
Cosmic
Human being with feelings
 
Cosmic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Online
Posts: 4,643
Default

Booyaka.

Must have a new read of it
__________________
it aint worth a bop,if it dont got that pop
Cosmic is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:45 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.