View Poll Results: Should we have an Enhanced for Midi Track Type?
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Yes!!!
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46 |
45.10% |
Noooooo
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52 |
50.98% |
I dont know and/or I don't care
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4 |
3.92% |
07-04-2010, 11:16 PM
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#1
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 324
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Should we have an "Enhanced for Midi" Track type/Inspector
Which would:
1) Make volume and pan send midi
2) On the selected "Track Channel" (or None to not rechannelize the track data)
3) Show transpose and patch name on the TCP (enhanced "Inspector")
4) Be an option that users would never have to use if they didnt want to
NOTE: If you "just want an inspector" that is still a YES vote, since that "inspector" presumably would only be on "enhanced midi tracks"
DF
Last edited by DarthFader; 07-05-2010 at 12:05 PM.
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07-05-2010, 12:16 AM
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#2
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Afford Slaughterhouse, FL
Posts: 624
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Yep. There are some things I miss from the Sonar MIDI tracks that could integrate well with Reaper universal track type. It would be nice that in the future we also have some fancy stuff like an Arpeggiator. ;-}
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07-05-2010, 01:38 AM
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#3
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-blänk-
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 11,359
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I would vote for more customization of tracks, so Reaper's unified tracks can mimic MIDI track type. I declare abstention from this poll
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07-05-2010, 02:05 AM
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#4
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 2
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It's not just that reaper needs a midi track type, it needs many midi enhancements. Both cubase & sonar have unique midi stuff. Just take the best of both and reproduce that and then go a step further and put in things that neither of them have.
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07-05-2010, 02:18 AM
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#5
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2009
Location: USSA
Posts: 31
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Why not just have a menu option similar to the "insert virtual instrument on new track"? Just make it chock full of MIDI goodness.
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07-05-2010, 02:22 AM
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#6
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 324
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e.g.:
Why not just have a menu option similar to the "insert virtual instrument on new track"? Just make it chock full of MIDI goodness.
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Define chock full of goodness as it relates to the features and UI.
And note -- not every midi track is a "Virtual Instrument"! There are hardware midi devices too.
It's for these non VSTi devices that this track type would help out so much more so than just a VSTi track.
For people that only use VSTi's they probably don't see half of what's clunky in this area.
DF
Last edited by DarthFader; 07-05-2010 at 02:29 AM.
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07-05-2010, 03:23 AM
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#7
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 24,798
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gofer
I would vote for more customization of tracks, so Reaper's unified tracks can mimic MIDI track type. I declare abstention from this poll
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Yup.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gofer
Ok, voted no. I think the plugin method is the way to go, apart from volume and pan faders being hopefully switchable to send MIDI data (of any kind I choose).
Knobs don't necessarily need to waste space. They could be any size, form, place or function if they just are improved in that direction.
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Word!
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07-05-2010, 03:27 AM
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#8
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Middle of nowhere (where the cheese comes from)
Posts: 483
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I'm on the same page as Gofer and EvilDragon - Voted no.
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07-05-2010, 03:54 AM
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#9
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 594
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Me too.
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07-05-2010, 10:56 AM
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#10
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: in the middle of the icecube.
Posts: 7,403
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vocalid
I'm on the same page as Gofer and EvilDragon - Voted no.
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ditto
.t
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07-05-2010, 10:07 AM
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#11
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,221
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voted "no" and i strongly echo technogremlin's sentiments, strikes me as much easier to implement.
i still don't understand why it's better for a fader to send midi volume instead of just control the volume of the outgoing audio.
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07-05-2010, 10:20 AM
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#12
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 21,551
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nym
i still don't understand why it's better for a fader to send midi volume instead of just control the volume of the outgoing audio.
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Not that it's a big deal (it's not at all Nym) but this has been covered over and over, the reason or circumstance why. Try mixing a very large R&B or dance track on a Proteus 2000 or similar without a midi mixer. It can be done but like cutting your toenails with scissors, it's better to use nail clippers.
If you guys want I can record the audio of one of it's demo tracks, which uses only it's internal sounds and effects. I think you might be a little surprised at the result given that there won't be a single audio plugin (eq, comp, etc.) on it anywhere.
On the higher end, do you honestly think anyone using this http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MotifXS8/ would spend that kind of money only to replace it's sounds with VSTI's? Or might they have some stereo stems from there and be doing a good bit of submixing in midi?
Last edited by Lawrence; 07-05-2010 at 10:38 AM.
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07-05-2010, 11:40 AM
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#13
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 324
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawrence
On the higher end, do you honestly think anyone using this http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MotifXS8/ would spend that kind of money only to replace it's sounds with VSTI's? Or might they have some stereo stems from there and be doing a good bit of submixing in midi?
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Funny you should mention that. I have an XS7
DF
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07-05-2010, 10:23 AM
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#14
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 3,795
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nym
i still don't understand why it's better for a fader to send midi volume instead of just control the volume of the outgoing audio.
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Here's why:
If you're sending MIDI to a VSTi on another track, the fader is currently useless and a complete waste of space.
Also MIDI volume in any multisampled VSTi is going to change the texture of the sound (different sample layers being triggered) whereas the audio volume only changes the output volume.
Also it seems like many of the people who are voting no, want the same thing as those voting yes and much of this argument is semantic.
__________________
FRs: v5 Media Explorer Requests, Global Quantization, Session View
Win10 Pro 64-bit, Reaper 6(x64), AMD 3950x, Aorus X570 Master, 64GB DDR4 3600, PowerColor Red Devil 5700XT, EVO 970 2TB, 10TB HD, Define R6
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07-05-2010, 11:11 AM
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#15
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 2,629
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PitchSlap
If you're sending MIDI to a VSTi on another track...
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... then just STOP DOING THAT
Just kidding of course. I've been an outboard hardware guy for decades so I do understand the need for some people to get better midi-control on a track. Although I don't really need that myself (gone totally software years ago), that's why I made the statement about an option to set a track to midi-control (should go nice with the 'one track paradigm'), because I actually do know what it can do for outboard synths and such
However, I still have a Kawai K1rII lying around that I haven't use for years and when I get my fasttrack ultra I might hook it up again (as I will have a few inputs spare then).
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07-05-2010, 11:31 AM
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#16
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 324
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PitchSlap
Here's why:
If you're sending MIDI to a VSTi on another track, the fader is currently useless and a complete waste of space.
Also MIDI volume in any multisampled VSTi is going to change the texture of the sound (different sample layers being triggered) whereas the audio volume only changes the output volume.
Also it seems like many of the people who are voting no, want the same thing as those voting yes and much of this argument is semantic.
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Well. Volume shouldn't change the timbre. Velocity should.
I agree that a lot of people voting no should be voting yes....
If you "just want an inspector" ... that would be a YES vote, because, presumably that inspector wouldn't be on every track, it would just be on "enhanced" midi tracks...(and the primary thing "enhanced" about them could easily be that they have an inspector).
DF
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07-05-2010, 01:50 PM
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#17
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 3,795
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthFader
Well. Volume shouldn't change the timbre. Velocity should.
DF
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Yes you guys are correct. It's been so long since I've used a working MIDI fader I forget what it does, lol
__________________
FRs: v5 Media Explorer Requests, Global Quantization, Session View
Win10 Pro 64-bit, Reaper 6(x64), AMD 3950x, Aorus X570 Master, 64GB DDR4 3600, PowerColor Red Devil 5700XT, EVO 970 2TB, 10TB HD, Define R6
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07-05-2010, 02:42 PM
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#18
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 300
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voted "No"
Since my last project, I used Reaper's tracks not only as "one for all", but as "both on one", via "feedback in routing".
This is something I really don't wanna miss anymore!
I can mix my VSTi's different channels on the same track where I recorded midi. Awesome!
But I'd definetely be happy about sort of an "Inspector" thing, with all kind of controls in it... Pitch would work on both midi and audio, Velocity just for midi of course... not quite sure what would make sense here, to meet anyone's needs...
I'd see it like the SWS track list,maybe.
Something "floating", so I could place it wherever I wanted to, maybe even totally customizable...?
I could use it then, but I wouldn't have to.
Just some thoughts....
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07-05-2010, 11:50 AM
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#19
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: In perpetual hope
Posts: 265
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How about...
an unobtrusive grey icon, just like the folder icon, on each horizontal mixer field? This won't clash with the other icons or overload the area visually.
A capital M or DIN plug icon which opens a dropdown box with all the midi stuff for that track.
The same thing could be available on a per item basis within each track with both being effective. eg:
Click grey MIDI icon, apply a +12 pitch shift for the track - on one iem on the track click the grey MIDI icon and select -12....
The whole track, except that one item, is shifted up an octave.
Just the basics are needed to speed up workflow; pitch, patch, velocity scale........
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07-05-2010, 12:46 PM
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#20
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,221
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Quote:
Also MIDI volume in any multisampled VSTi is going to change the texture of the sound (different sample layers being triggered) whereas the audio volume only changes the output volume.
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you're talking about midi velocity, not volume...2 completely different things. cc7 is one thing, i would puke my pants if suddenly my track's volume fader suddenly started effing with my midi velocity. velocity, more than anything, is something that should be controlled via dedicated user-created TCP control - this functionality is native already with the included velocity control js fx.
lawrence, i have zero proteus experience, but i believe i can see your point. i'm envisioning a scenario where multiple midi channels control multiple instruments on a multitimbral synth/sampler/workstation outputting to a stereo track. incoming midi from your controller show up in individual tracks by channel perhaps in reaper, and then are exported to the proteus. here, i would definitely want cc7 volume control over the proteus easily accessible, as the stereo track prohibits a user from just using the volume fader to control different elements individually.
multi-out hardware ftw in this case...but in the meantime there's always this: (and TCP controls)
someday i reckon all TCP controls (including buttons and vol faders) will be more flexibly assigned
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