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Old 10-16-2021, 06:11 AM   #1
frozenpeas
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Default Monitored Sound vs Recorded Sound

I have a Yamaha THR5A acoustic amp that connects to the PC via USB and outputs to Reaper through the ASIO driver. I listen to the playback by using headphones connected to the amp.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Asio Driver Yamaha Steinberg USB Audio

Enable Inputs Tick
First THR5A Guitar L
Last THR5A Guitar R
--------------------------------------
Output Range
First THR5A L
Last THR5A R
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

However, when I record to Reaper the output doesn't sound the same.
I have tried:
1. Adding VST effects to the input FX
2. Adding VST effects to the track FX window
3. Tried changing the recording type (Record Input Audio/Midi)
4. Tried changing the recording type to (Record Output Stereo/Latency compensated)

The only way I am able to record exactly what I hear is by putting a jack splitter in the headphone output and using a zoom recorder.

Am I doing something wrong here ?
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Old 10-16-2021, 07:06 AM   #2
martmix
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are you record in 24bit ?
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Old 10-16-2021, 07:48 AM   #3
domzy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frozenpeas View Post

However, when I record to Reaper the output doesn't sound the same.
I have tried:
1. Adding VST effects to the input FX
2. Adding VST effects to the track FX window
3. Tried changing the recording type (Record Input Audio/Midi)
4. Tried changing the recording type to (Record Output Stereo/Latency compensated)

The only way I am able to record exactly what I hear is by putting a jack splitter in the headphone output and using a zoom recorder.
i'm not sure i'm following what you are doing with plugins etc., but if you have no plugins in the project & you record guitar are you saying it sounds different on monitoring than it does on playback?

How is it different, can you describe?

Are you using direct monitoring from the amp or is the monitored signal going through Reaper?

Are you recording in stereo or mono?
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Old 10-16-2021, 08:57 AM   #4
serr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frozenpeas View Post
I have a Yamaha THR5A acoustic amp that connects to the PC via USB and outputs to Reaper through the ASIO driver. I listen to the playback by using headphones connected to the amp.
Do you mean to say that you listen to playback from Reaper using the amp/interface as your output device?

Quote:
Originally Posted by frozenpeas View Post
Asio Driver Yamaha Steinberg USB Audio

Enable Inputs Tick
First THR5A Guitar L
Last THR5A Guitar R
--------------------------------------
Output Range
First THR5A L
Last THR5A R
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Looks like you're running Windows and using the method to connect to the interface where you have to tell it the number of ins/outs. When the device itself isn't an option in the device list. Sounds correct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by frozenpeas View Post
However, when I record to Reaper the output doesn't sound the same.
The recorded output? When you play it back like you mentioned above?

Quote:
Originally Posted by frozenpeas View Post
I have tried:
1. Adding VST effects to the input FX
Well that would obviously change the sound. Adding fx.

Quote:
Originally Posted by frozenpeas View Post
2. Adding VST effects to the track FX window
Again, adding fx should be an obvious change.

Quote:
Originally Posted by frozenpeas View Post
3. Tried changing the recording type (Record Input Audio/Midi)
Huh? Audio and MIDI machine code are pretty different things. Audio is audio. MIDI is control codes to run a MIDI sound module.

Quote:
Originally Posted by frozenpeas View Post
4. Tried changing the recording type to (Record Output Stereo/Latency compensated)
That would record your input post fader in the track in question. If you had any fx inserted in that track, the processed sound would be recorded instead of the raw input. Latency compensated per the calibration value in Preferences/Audio/Recording (The normal way of doing that. No lag issues and matching monitoring the input in real time.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by frozenpeas View Post
The only way I am able to record exactly what I hear is by putting a jack splitter in the headphone output and using a zoom recorder.
That suggests the headphone output is different than the direct output sent to the computer over the USB audio interface connection. You should investigate if there are any fx dialed up in the amp/interface for its headphone output that aren't included in the direct USB output.
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Old 10-16-2021, 11:05 AM   #5
frozenpeas
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@martmix
Yes 24bit
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
@domzy
"saying it sounds different on monitoring than it does on playback?"
Yes it sounds different e.g. Valhalla Reverb sounds different recorded than it does just playing the guitar through Reaper (before recording)

"How is it different, can you describe?"
It sounds different. Basically, not the same. Can't identify what's going on. Like it's being processed differently.

"Are you using direct monitoring from the amp or is the monitored signal going through Reaper?"
With this amp the sound is monitored through headphones or the amps internal speakers. The sound is not monitored through Reaper as far as I'm aware. There is no option to select an alternative output under Pref/Audio Device.

"Are you recording in stereo or mono?"
Stereo
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
@serr
"Do you mean to say that you listen to playback from Reaper using the amp/interface as your output device?"
Yes

"The recorded output? When you play it back like you mentioned above?"
I play the guitar without recording and get the sound I like through VST's. The sound comes out of the amp headphones or speakers.
When I then record this and play it back through the amp headphones or speakers the output does not sound the same.

"Well that would obviously change the sound. Adding fx."
Yes I know that VST's change the sound. However, the rehearsal sound (before record) sounds perfect but the recording of the same sound does not sound the same.

"Huh? Audio and MIDI machine code are pretty different things. Audio is audio. MIDI is control codes to run a MIDI sound module."
Right click the record button on a track and this is the choice you are given. That's Reaper not me.

"That suggests the headphone output is different than the direct output sent to the computer over the USB audio interface connection. You should investigate if there are any fx dialed up in the amp/interface for its headphone output that aren't included in the direct USB output."
That's a very good point. But surely if I set up the sound whilst listening to the guitar with headphones and then record the same and listen to it back through headphones it should be the same ?
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Thanks everyone for replying. I'm stumped.
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Old 10-16-2021, 11:34 AM   #6
domzy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frozenpeas View Post
"Are you using direct monitoring from the amp or is the monitored signal going through Reaper?"
With this amp the sound is monitored through headphones or the amps internal speakers. The sound is not monitored through Reaper as far as I'm aware. There is no option to select an alternative output under Pref/Audio Device.
when people say "direct monitoring" in this context, it means that the signal goes from your interface / amp straight to your headphones or speakers.
If you are able to hear VST fx when monitoring, that means that you are monitoring through Reaper (even though the sound is still coming from the headphones - it's going from your amp to Reaper and back again). Interfaces often have a knob or switch to select direct monitoring or not.

Did you mention whether you tried recording with no additional VST fx and if that sounds different or not?

(For what it's worth, it's always been my experience that a live take sounds slightly different to listening back to the recording. I've always thought this was normal & attributable to physical, environmental & "vibe" factors - dunno if you are talking about this though?)
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Old 10-16-2021, 01:53 PM   #7
serr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frozenpeas View Post
I play the guitar without recording and get the sound I like through VST's. The sound comes out of the amp headphones or speakers.
When I then record this and play it back through the amp headphones or speakers the output does not sound the same.
It sounds like you are saying that you are using the amp/interface as your output device from Reaper and using plugins in Reaper to do this. Is that correct?

If you're doing something like that...

Guitar amps are part of the sound creation with guitars. Not just a "turn it up" device. So... If you are basically inserting a DAW for guitar fx like that, that result will get mangled through the amp like the amp does. That would be world of different than processing the recorded guitar amp sound with those plugins after the fact! It's the difference between guitar fx (think stomp box) and studio fx on recorded sound.

If you want to hear what it would sound like with some post production while you track live, you need to monitor that with your interface for your monitor speaker system. The usual way to do that is make what's called an aggregate device of your monitor audio interface + the amp/interface with your OS audio utility. Then select the aggregate device in Reaper instead of one or the other by itself. Now you can get the guitar interface input and play back through your monitor system.

I don't know if that's what you really want to do. But that's why those things sound very different and that's how you'd go about working around it if you wanted live post production in Reaper while tracking.

Or maybe you DID intend to use Reaper fx like stomp boxes?
You'd have to find a way to "insert" that and then record the incoming USB after a round trip... Might not be a way to do that. The USB connection with Reaper would be used as an insert. The only output with the result audio would be the amp/interface headphone output.
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