Some (so far) good Windows XP news...

[Solar]

Originally Posted by DuX

Tallisman:"What a service it would be if you could create a generic .iso of that cut-down version and post it for us to download and rock!"

No problem! I could, and I would if you really want me to, but for now it makes no sense, because SP3 is around the corner and installing SP3 over nLited XP SP2 makes it as big as a normal install, and so far, IMHO SP3 is really worth having.

So when I get my greasy hands on official SP3, you'll get my "Audio XPSP3" ;-). It's the least I can do for this community of people I really like. I am a member of KVR for 8 years, but this forum is quickly becoming my favourite because it's spirit is kinda healthier. I have a need for a long time now to contribute somehow. Now you gave me a really good idea how. Thanks Tallisman! We'll work something out. Maybe even with this SP3RC1 if it *really* works without any problems - one cannot tell after just a few hours. So far, I'm quite thrilled with the update.

Cheers!

Thanx a lot DUX and yes that could be a very good idea if you could once you've played and optimize it with SP3, to upload an .ISO format so we can all benefit with this Unattended version and faster version. Thank you for the explanations. Appreciate it

[DuX]

The only thing I'm worried about is the legality of this, so I should talk to Justin, Cristophe or any moderator before posting any links to ISO's. I am a proud owner of the corporate edition of XP Pro which has no activation. I'm not sure ordinary XP serials will work with it.

What to do?

CheeRs!

p.s. or maybe we could do it "behind the curtain" somehow... I mean, outside the Reaper forum. Let me know what you think.

[Tallisman]

Originally Posted by DuX

The only thing I'm worried about is the legality of this, so I should talk to Justin, Cristophe or any moderator before posting any links to ISO's. I am a proud owner of the corporate edition of XP Pro which has no activation. I'm not sure ordinary XP serials will work with it.

What to do?

CheeRs!

p.s. or maybe we could do it "behind the curtain" somehow... I mean, outside the Reaper forum. Let me know what you think.

I'll FTP you an image of a XP pro iso if you like.
then you could use that and folks will need their current key.

t.

[DuX]

Hehe [deviously and self-satisfactorily], You don't have to do that Tallis, thanks, you're a great guy. In the mean time I asked a friend about it and he said "no problem", so I'll have a copy of normal XP Pro with activation whenever I need it, yay!

So far, everything keeps working well, or better. Have 3 PC's to test. Unfortunately all AMD, so if any of you who installed SP3RC1have Intel PC, post your impressions, would be cool.

CHeers!

[Alistair S]

I have a Core2Duo, and installed it this evening.

No issues so far. Seems good.

[Tallisman]

I have an address bar in my taskbar.
since SP3 I have to re-add it on boot up or it is MIA



a minor annoyance.
.t

[DuX]

I read somewhere in the SP3 documentation that address bar in task bar is actually gone in SP3, Tallisman. Strange you can even add it . [ahh MS and their programming...]

So it's a feature, not a bug.

Cheers!

[Tallisman]

that makes sense...
see I used to right click the taskbar and add it...
now I can only add it by clicking the other taskbar i have set up... adding it there and the dragging it out and up.

I have a taskbar on the right of the screen that is my computer, and my 2 main audio folders

.t

[pattonfreak1]

Originally Posted by Art Evans

Reading some relevant threads elsewhere rather quickly, it seems that this is a risky thing to try unless you really, really need it.

Whats risky?
dl'ing the new service pack?
or creating an n-lite version of SP3?

[DuX]

I think he meant installing SP3RC1, and he's right - coming from MicroSoft, you never know. So far, this SP is still a pleasant surprise for me. Everything working normally or better, again - *so far*.

However, making an nLited installation is a very tricky business, too, but if you just integrate SP3 into the installation and disable a few obvious things like "MS help services", "Windows Tour", "Windows backup" [use "Ghost" instead], Internet Explorer and Outlook Express, Movie Maker [what a terrible program, Virtualdub is much much better], MS Messenger, Games, Media Player, all those different languages except English, Windows Restore, Indexing, services like: autoupdate, remote desktop... you can cut down the installation by around 200MB for sure. The other 200MB is tricky business ;-).

The good thing is that most of these apps you can install later if you want, like it should have been in the first place - the main reason I don't like MicroSoft too much, forcing their [badly written and not satisfactory in general] apps upon us.

Cheers!

[pattonfreak1]

So.... should I dl the SP or not?

[DuX]

If you ask me... Yes DL it, it's worth it. but before installing it, make a backup of your system, just in case. I have tried it on 2 AMD PC's so far and no problems, on the contrary - makes the whole "eXPerience" a bit smoother. So far, even more reliable, it seems, but my system is very clean, and it's been running very reliably already except...

My biggest hope is that the ASIO hanging issues are resolved. So far I didn't have a single ASIO crash and didn't have to restart the bloody system, even though I've tested many plugins, mixed two songs, experimented, edited...

btw. for all my audio needs, I use Reaper 2.x, EnergyXT 1.41, Wavosaur and Audition 1.5. only, so all I say cannot guarantee you that Cubase, Sonar or anything else is working properly or better, as well.

Need4Speed Underground 2 is working very smoothly, though . Recommended. And lots of Kilkenny .

Cheers!

[politcat]

Originally Posted by pattonfreak1

So.... should I dl the SP or not?

"what am I waiting for
what am I waiting for
so give me something to believe
'cause I am living just to breathe
and I need something more
to keep on breathing for
so give me something to believe"

ha!

[Bassman1]

haha always hard to update when eveything is running so sweet.

So do i take the plunge???? Hmmmm I think I'll think about it a little longer

[DuX]

I have to start with "so far" again, because what I've learned from MicroSoft during the years is just to be extremely cautious with everything MS. So...

So far, I didn't have a single ASIO crash [or any other crash or problem for that matter], so maybe I would recommend the upgrade to those who suffer from ASIO crashes and hanging issues. Those with stable systems, do what you gotta do - usually it's best *not* to solve problems when there aren't any, most seriously.

But If SP3 resolves those crashes and hanging BS [or at least hanging] which draws the life force out of me every time I'm doing something with audio I'm gonna be in MF audio heaven .

btw. I didn't have those issues on Win2000... only since I've "upgraded" to XP last year, forced by the [ignorant and "all knowing"] customers who want the "latest" and "greatest". yea, right - "latest and greatest"... maybe if we're talking Apple or Linux, but maybe not even then, and certainly not MS .

Cheers!

[charles.monteiro]

Originally Posted by DuX

I have to start with "so far" "latest and greatest"... maybe if we're talking Apple or Linux, but maybe not even then, and certainly not MS .

Cheers!

well, certainly Leopard has had quite a few issues according to the press I see, so bleeding edgers will always pay

the only reoccuring issue I get seems to be associated with Firefox coming back from a period of system inactivity, btw, I'm not hibernating, but I digress

do you find your system smoother? i.e. startups, just in general? and how long did the process take.

[pattonfreak1]

Ok i installed it and it did seem to responds better HOWEVER: My bootups/shutdowns took LONGER and it messed my modem up and I couldnt connect to the interweb. uninstalled and now its fine.
I'll wait...

[LabbyRoad]

I've installed it on two machines now; one at work and one at home and have noticed a definite improvement in startup times and in program load times on both. Also, nothing broke as a result of installing the service pack.

[DuX]

As more people report their experiences, we'll see how all the PC's behave differently... that's the only thing I'm afraid of. Read my previous post carefully.

Therefore, I'll make my "audio XP" ISO available as soon as I'm sure SP3 works reliably, so people can use the same system as I do [and install on my customers PC's], customised and optimised painstakingly over a few months for multimedia work. You'll be surprised how good XP can be. Except if you're running an antivirus in the background - that's an utter no-no. In the system tray, I only have my audio cards mixer icon and the network icon, nothing else. I have only 14 services enabled - 12 on automatic and 2 on manual-that's 49 services on "disabled" plus some of them I completely removed, so it works with over 50 services disabled. When the reasonably fast booting finishes, it consumes a bit less than 70MB of memory... it's a PorscheXP . Some people's XP's consume almost 400MB of memory right from the start...

On my system Firefox is working normally, rendering pages and responsiveness in general seems better. The OS in general is a bit more responsive, too. I should do some benchmarking maybe...

Cheers!

[Solar]

Can i install this SP3 on my laptop that is running Win XP Home Edition with SP2? I have a toshiba satellite.. just asking so i can give the test a see how the Sp3 is. Thanx

[DuX]

Of course you can, just remember to backup C: first. It would be fabulous, as lots of people are using Dells and Toshibas for audio.

It would also be nice to see how it works on more "congested" systems than mine . Laptops always have lots of software installed and everything crawls at snail's pace by default.

[politcat]

I installed sp3 on my dell laptop. No problems so far with reaper or anything else after 2 days.

Seems faster but thats all I can say cuz i'm too lazy to go back and actually time loading etc. to compare sp2 to sp3.

[Solar]

Originally Posted by DuX

Of course you can, just remember to backup C: first. It would be fabulous, as lots of people are using Dells and Toshibas for audio.

It would also be nice to see how it works on more "congested" systems than mine . Laptops always have lots of software installed and everything crawls at snail's pace by default.

Thanx Dux... i will then give this a try and u're right in laptop PC when u buy them they always come with tons and tons unecesary loads of software installed thats just bugs your system but in my side, i've uninstalled them ALL. Try to keep it simple and clean. Only install what i use. i'm gonna give XP3 a try now.. we'll report thanx.

P.S Would u have any list of Services that i can shudown in my Xp Home edition without affecting the negtwork, internet and Audio like Reaper in my toshiba? I'm using the included cheap soundcard. I think i will get Asio4all. THanx


EDIT: On last thing Dux. Lets say install SP3 right now, this version we have here, when the "real" version will be announced by MS next year... i guess that version will have more bugs fixed etc.. right? So all we gotta do is download the MS release final and install on top and thats it there won';t be any problem or conflict with the fact we've installed this version?

[bluzkat]

Solar,

This version of SP3 is a 'Release Candidate' (RC). The only things that will be 'fixed' in this are any bugs that are reported and confirmed, there won't be more features added. When the 'final' version is released you should be able to 'roll back' the version you have installed, then install the final version (Microsoft may not require the SP3 RC to be removed, but it's probably not a bad idea). If your system is up to date with Windows Update you don't need to install this now, unless you want to tempt the 'beta' devil.

[DuX]

Services... Windows "dark territory", "encrypted" descriptions as MS wanted to spook us from fiddling with them, especially MS ones.

Anyway, it will be much shorter to write which ones are enabled in my XP, but pictures speak a 1000 words, especially if on the picture is Charlize Theron or Leelee Sobieski in a mini skirt and very thin white or black t-shirt . I have a thing for long-legged blondes with nice booties, can't help it...

These services are on "automatic startup" and more or less absolutely necessary for XP to work properly:
[IMG]http://img227.**************/img227/3076/duxxpautoservicesig6.th.png[/IMG]

These are on "manual" startup, because they might be needed once in a blue moon or more:
[IMG]http://img225.**************/img225/189/duxxpmanualservicesqw3.th.png[/IMG]

And now a few tips off the top of my head. This is the result of months of tweaking. I didn't just disable or put to manual all at once. Just a few at the time, with the help of very good "decrypted" descriptions from musicxp.net.

Remember that all PC's are specific and have specific needs.

My PC's don't have any modems, or printers and I use a router to connect to the Internet - therefore I don't need the "telephony", "DHCP" and "DNS" service. Only "DHCP" sometimes for specific reasons. You shouldn't disable those services if you use a modem or a common DSL modem without any firewall or routing services [actually router acts as a server PC].

Firewall: I have it in my router, and a very good one, so I don't need the Windows Firewall services which are: "Application Layer Gateway Service" and "Windows Firewall/Internet Connection Sharing (ICS)". If you have a modem or DSL modem you need these for protection, or don't, it depends on how you use the internet... firewall is certainly not needed to view this forum, or to visit KVR ;-), but if you're connected 24/7 it safer to have some kind of a firewall. btw. it's recommended to turn off the network while working with low latency audio.

Printer: if you use a printer, you'll need a "Printer Spooler" service set to "automatic".

Scanner: I have "Windows image acquisition" service set to "manual" because I use a scanner to scan dirty pictures of sexy female celebrities from time to time . Kidding... but I have a scanner and that service is needed for it to work properly.

I have a few specific services on "manual" which I also need like SiSoftware's Sandra services. Stupid mega-bloated software installs itself in a manner of Tommy Lee Jones in the movie "The Park Is Mine". Never again... Super-Pi is enough benchmarks for me, however, I need Sandra right now for testing. Sandra come here, I'm gonna *test* you...

I also have a service called "Remote packet capture protocol" set on "manual". Ask Justin DaMan if you want to know what it is...

I think that's all you need to know about Windows Services folks. Ah yea, any other services not listed here you should investigate by yourself if you can disable them or not. I use an nvidia graphics cards in all of my systems, so all I know is that nVidia VGA driver services can be safely disabled, however, after doing that, DX games always work at Windows default monitor frequency, and OpenGL games at 60Hz, so if you want your OpenGL games to work at more Hz, leave nVidia services alone...

Cheers!

[DuX]

One more thing. If your computer is on a network with other computers, you shouldn't disable the "Server" and "Workstation" services - these are the services used for Windows networking.

For those who want to disable them, here's a neat trick: go to control panel>network connections>right click on your internet connection or your network card>properties>deinstall everything except TCP/IP which is needed for internet.

My computers are in a network, but I use 3rd party programs like Laplink to exchange the data between them securely, so I don't need any MS shitty unsecure protocols in addition to godly TCP/IP. TCP/IP will be here long after MS is gone. It's all you actually need to network the computers or to browse the Internet, *nothing else*, no QRP, PQR, MSS, FYYSU and similar MS perverted protocols with cryptic names that actually do nothing that makes any sense...

and yea, I play music, too .

Cheers!

[politcat]

if you can hit your space bar in rhythm and still get a groove you're ok. know what I mean?!

[Tallisman]

Originally Posted by DuX

One more thing, I use 3rd party programs like Laplink to exchange the data between them securely, so I don't need any MS shitty unsecure protocols in addition to godly TCP/IP.

I am interested in learning more about this.

cheers

.t

[mr. moon]

Originally Posted by flight

Regarding the firewire problem with SP2, I was just perusing the following URL http://support.microsoft.com/kb/885222

<snip>
Anyone know anything different, or just read this differently?

If you do a "clean" WinXP install from "official" Microsoft WinXP media with that has SP-2 included, you *should* not experience this firewire issue. The issue stems from running WinXP SP-2 to upgrade an existing WinXP or WinXP SP-1 installation.

From M$'s website (link above):

"SYMPTOMS
After you update your computer to Microsoft Windows XP Service Pack 2 (SP2), the performance of your 1394a or 1394b FireWire devices may be greatly decreased. A digital camera that uses S400 speed is an example of such a device.

CAUSE
This problem occurs if you connect a 1394a or 1394b FireWire device to a 1394b port. This problem occurs because Windows XP SP2 changes 1394b ports to S100 speed when you upgrade."


Sh1t, I haven't seen an original XP w/SP1 installation CD in YEARS!! ...Not to mention one without SP1!!!

Rock on!

-mr moon

[DuX]

Hmmm, I forgot to tell you what else you can disable if you don't use networking.

Obviously, you can disable the "Network Connections" service. Also you can disable "DHCP", "HTTP SSL" and "Routing and Remote access". An audio workstation setup like that works like a charm and consumes around 50MB+ at startup.

Remember that I only mentioned the services which are on those pictures, every other service is set to "disabled".

btw. When I get the WXPSP3RC1 ISO ready, you will get a system that is tweaked for audio right from the start. Not to say you won't have anything to tweak after the installation, though. I cannot disable so many services, as many users have printers and various different hardware which needs some of them. Optimising services is too specific from PC to PC, so you'll have to do it yourselves, except the most "unneeded ones", of course. The pics I posted are a very good guidance, and musicxp.net site.

Not in any particular order, you'll get:

- all eye candy disabled, except font smoothing and if you use an LCD monitor you would definitely want "clear type" enabled, or not -your preference. This is one of the things you can disable for even better performance.
- no Help of any kind, and no videos. You won't even know the MS OS is there.
- no automatic updates [as in "whooosh..."]
- no DEP [Data Execution Prevention]
- sped up menus by default
- no MS balloons [tips] anywhere, balloons are for kids
- processor scheduling set to "background services"
- services that are of no use to anybody disabled by default.
- no system restore or windows backup at all [as in "obliterated"]
- disabled hybernation [but you can enable it]
- no other language files except English [! watch you who use other languages!]
- no Internet Explorer [but the core engine stays] or Outlook Express
- no Windows Media Player [but the core engine and WMP v6.4 stays]
- no indexing service [as in "gone"]
- no cleanup wizard working in the background
- no autostart for CD/DVD's
- no fast user switching, only one user ["administrator"]
- no MS burning engine [as in "scram"]
- "DisablePagingExecutive" in registry turned on
- "NtfsDisableLastAccessUpdate" in registry turned on
- TCP/IP tweaked to 500 connections
- Windows Explorer without any panes [pains? ] and set to "detailed" view
- no games [who needs games when you have Reaper ]
- no sounds
- all in all, nothing I consider bloat will get in this ISO and nothing that impairs the streaming performance in any considerable way will get in this ISO

One thing I'm reluctant what to do about is "themes". I'm 100% sure many of you use themes like "Luna" for instance. I don't, as it's not needed, and impairs performance, but I'd be willing to leave them alone if you want, even though it is against my principles .

@Tallisman: Laplink is so easy to use that I have nothing to tell you ;-). You install it, you work with it. It's like Windows Explorer, but you browse the network. Unfortunately it's not freeware. I think there's no freeware alternative for that, but some FTP server/client combo could work nicely like zFTP suite or Filezilla server/client, both quite easy to set up.

Cheers!

[Tallisman]

thanks.

I vote:

Scrap the themes!



.t

[DuX]

I can almost see a slogan for this ISO: Windows that don't shine, but they work!

or: "Windows that you don't see, but "feeel" [man...] . If you take a look at one of my desktops [*this* one], you'll see what I mean, I designed it myself:
[IMG]http://img221.**************/img221/4377/duxdesktopew5.th.png[/IMG]

btw. the space where date and clock is have double duty: it is also used for starting programs and as a *calculator* - veeery handy for calculating delays, samples and similar and it's always visible.

However, I use LiteStep as a Windows shell, it's light, fast, extremely stable, low memory footprint, and completely customisable, see: www.lsdev.org

This is also the only WindowsXP version that MS slogans really apply to. no smiley, this is seriously speaking. MS thinks people should be entertained by the OS like in Hollywood B movies, I don't think so - I create my own entertainment [with Reaper ], and OS should be as transparent and simple as possible. LiteStep provides me with that. You can call this "finishing touches" to XP.

Cheers!

[Tallisman]

oh man... this is sweet... I am so gonna do this up once I finish building the new box.



t

[Alex Stone]

As a former 98lite and 95lite user i can testify to the value of a stripped down os. Back then, one could remove IE, which most of my musical mates and i did straight away, as well a pile of other bloat. We needed to, just to get any sort of performance.

I´ve often wondered, somewhat wistfully at times, why blinky bill didn´t release a stripped down winxp os for users like us, with the emphasis on grunt, instead of bloat.

But then i guess it would have then been a LOT harder to sell all that extra crap to the masses.

Dux, thatś my kind of screen. No frills, and get on with the job at hand.....

Ah well, back to the UStudio!

Alex.

[vicenzajay]

This is all some very, very nice stuff.

I've got some serious work to do on my machine. LiteStep looks phenomenal, and it's just what the doctor ordered for Windows.

Jay

[Tallisman]

Dux, do you recommend the LOSI or Omar installer
(or other)?

Also... when the Explorer shell is sitting idle letting LS do the work, is it completely out of the picture?

also... does that start menu in you image always pop in the center, or is that on a rightckicl/ win key short cut, popping up under the cursor?


thanks for this..

.t

[DuX]

Originally Posted by Tallisman

Dux, do you recommend the LOSI or Omar installer
(or other)?

Also... when the Explorer shell is sitting idle letting LS do the work, is it completely out of the picture?

also... does that start menu in you image always pop in the center, or is that on a rightckicl/ win key short cut, popping up under the cursor?


thanks for this..

.t

I will be brief, as always. :lol:

1) I don't use an installer for LiteStep . It's just a directory with a few files here and I've been copying it like that to new windows installations since somewhere in 2000 when I last changed something, I've been only changing the main exe as it was updated and updated modules, too... but I remember using some kind of installer the first time and it was an official installer which doesn't exist any more and was replaced by LOSI. After figuring out what I like and what I don't like, I just erased everything and made "my LiteStep" with only the modules I like, minimal to the bone.

I use these modules only: jdesk.dll , systray.dll, popup2.dll and lsxcommand.dll

I can send you my step.rc file - main and only config file for LiteStep in my setup, so you can have an easier start if you like, or just an example of a more "optimised" [I like that word ] step.rc file. The only painful stuff about LiteStep is configuring it the first time. Later on it's just a detail here and there - "adjustments".

2) Yep, Explorer is completely out of the picture, except for managing files, but it sucks at that, so I use Xplorer2 for that - it's free, uses less memory...bla bla you know the drill it's like 100x better than Windows Explorer. I can't remember when I last used it at all.

3) I configured the fabulous "Start Menu" to start with the left click anywhere on the desktop, but you can configure it *however* you like. You don't even need to have it at all . You'll see - with LiteStep you configure you whole user interface however you like it. First think of what you want, and then find the right modules and make it. It took me one afternoon to make my "theme" which I'll gladly share If anybody wants.

Cheers!

[DuX]

@Tallisman: I've just read about LOSI installer. it seems like it's too early to use it, so I'd use Omar's installer instead as it's far more mature :wink:

Cheers!

[jakerock]

Holy crap...
Im practically drooling over this sexy, naked OS!!!!
Cant wait!

[Tallisman]

Originally Posted by DuX

I will be brief, as always. :lol:

1) I don't use an installer for LiteStep . It's just a directory with a few files here and I've been copying it like that to new windows installations since somewhere in 2000 when I last changed something, I've been only changing the main exe as it was updated and updated modules, too... but I remember using some kind of installer the first time and it was an official installer which doesn't exist any more and was replaced by LOSI. After figuring out what I like and what I don't like, I just erased everything and made "my LiteStep" with only the modules I like, minimal to the bone.

I use these modules only: jdesk.dll , systray.dll, popup2.dll and lsxcommand.dll

I can send you my step.rc file - main and only config file for LiteStep in my setup, so you can have an easier start if you like, or just an example of a more "optimised" [I like that word ] sterp.rc file. The only painful stuff about LiteStep is configuring it the first time. Later on it's just a detail here and there - "adjustments".

2) Yep, Explorer is completely out of the picture, except for managing files, but it sucks at that, so I use Xplorer2 for that - it's free, uses less memory...bla bla you know the drill it's like 100x better than Windows Explorer. I can't remember when I last used it at all.

3) I configured the fabulous "Start Menu" to start with the left click anywhere on the desktop, but you can configure it *however* you like. You don't even need to have it at all . You'll see - with LiteStep you configure you whole user interface however you like it. First think of what you want, and then find the right modules and make it. It took me one afternoon to make my "theme" which I'll gladly share If anybody wants.

Does anybody have problems accessing the site? I have. The same problem as with KVR a few months ago, so I have to use anonymous proxy to access the site. Why's this happening? Blocking addresses coming from Europe or what? It's probably "what". Someone on KVR said they were blocking spammers coming somewhere from Europe... I can't understand such people, got nothing better to do than being arseholes...

hmmm, I have dynamic IP, so I disconnected the router, connected it again and everything's fine. ok...

Cheers!

Dux! My man! I can't thank you enough for these tips! I am in love with xplorer2. I am gonna get on that litestep soon.

Question: is there a way to have xplorer2 replace window's explorer? I mean i can't seem to find a setting that lets me allow x2 capture [win]+[e] and the likes... double clicking my computer or the icons in my toolbars.

thanks again,

t.