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Old 11-21-2021, 11:05 AM   #1
Phazma
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Default MX: Zoom/Scroll preview doesn't work without extra click

When autoplay is active, selecting a sound, hovering the cursor over the preview waveform and zooming/scrolling with mouse modifier keys doesn't work as expected.

It requires the user to click onto the MX first to focus it and only afterwards it works. Otherwise the modifier+mouswheel will act on the arrange window if assigned to scroll/zoom.

To my understanding, if I click onto a file shown in the MX and the preview starts, the MX should be focused already as I have already clicked onto an area that is part of the MX. It doesn't make sense to me that the main window is in focus after the preview starts and the user needs to click the media explorer once again to re-focus it for being able to zoom/scroll preview with mouse modifiers.
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Old 11-22-2021, 10:07 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by Phazma View Post
When autoplay is active, selecting a sound, hovering the cursor over the preview waveform and zooming/scrolling with mouse modifier keys doesn't work as expected.

It requires the user to click onto the MX first to focus it and only afterwards it works. Otherwise the modifier+mouswheel will act on the arrange window if assigned to scroll/zoom.

To my understanding, if I click onto a file shown in the MX and the preview starts, the MX should be focused already as I have already clicked onto an area that is part of the MX. It doesn't make sense to me that the main window is in focus after the preview starts and the user needs to click the media explorer once again to re-focus it for being able to zoom/scroll preview with mouse modifiers.
What OS? This seems to work as expected on W10.
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Old 11-22-2021, 10:24 AM   #3
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macOS High Sierra (10.13.6 I believe?).

I might try to record some kind of gif later when I am at the computer, if it helps (but I guess the description is clear?).
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Old 11-23-2021, 05:16 AM   #4
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Sorry, forgot about the gif yesterday. here it is:



When the mouse cursor changes to the up/down-arrow I am holding cmd and scrolling up/down. The rest should be clear.

I noticed while doing this that my report wasn't very accurate:

Actually horizontal zoom does work (as you can see in the gif)! It is just vertical zoom that does not work and probably that is the only issue that can be called unintended behavior.

It seems that scrolling is generally not even supported without scrollbars. So that would be more of a FR I guess. It would be nice if that worked with the horizontal mousewheel. Also, a modifier to reset vertical zoom would be great too (perhaps cmd+doubleclick). Fixing the above issue and giving us these 2 features would make it possible to hide the scrollbars without missing out on their functionality.
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Old 11-23-2021, 08:01 AM   #5
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Hey,
Here on macOS 10.14 with a Magic Mouse, the behavior is also affecting other panels, regardless if preview is clicked.

– when new MX preview isn't clicked, [Cmd] + [vert-wheel] will affect track-height. Not sure if this is caused by user prefs somewhere, but it’s confusing as the focus is on MX, not TCP.

– when MX preview is clicked, the [horz-wheel] will affect timeline view instead, regardless if the [Cmd] modifier is used.

– In last example, my use of vertical wheel for zoom is somewhat exaggerated, but the pointer is steady. I think it shouldn’t affect other than MX preview.

Here’s an example showing click-radar / key stroke,

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Old 11-23-2021, 09:24 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhelixK View Post
– when new MX preview isn't clicked, [Cmd] + [vert-wheel] will affect track-height. Not sure if this is caused by user prefs somewhere, but it’s confusing as the focus is on MX, not TCP.

– when MX preview is clicked, the [horz-wheel] will affect timeline view instead, regardless if the [Cmd] modifier is used.

– In last example, my use of vertical wheel for zoom is somewhat exaggerated, but the pointer is steady. I think it shouldn’t affect other than MX preview.
I think how this manifests depends on how the 'View: Zoom/Scroll [...] (MIDI CC relative/mousewheel)' actions are set up. For me the behavior/modifiers are a bit different because I have customized the assignments but I confirm that the mouse movements affect the main window tracks while they should not when the MX is focused.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhelixK View Post
Here’s an example showing click-radar / key stroke,
Thanks for your gif, it shows the oddities better than mine!

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhelixK View Post
Here on macOS 10.14 with a Magic Mouse
As you are using Apple's Magic Mouse too... do you also notice that zooming waveforms in the preview window works pretty badly? If I give it a strong scroll it usually works and zooms in pretty far. But if I just scroll slightly sometimes nothing happens at all or it zooms in a stuttering, unpredictable way.
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Old 11-23-2021, 10:27 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazma View Post
I think how this manifests depends on how the 'View: Zoom/Scroll [...] (MIDI CC relative/mousewheel)' actions are set up. For me the behavior/modifiers are a bit different because I have customized the assignments but I confirm that the mouse movements affect the main window tracks while they should not when the MX is focused.
yes, the side-effect really depends on the assigned mouse behavior.

Quote:
As you are using Apple's Magic Mouse too... do you also notice that zooming waveforms in the preview window works pretty badly? If I give it a strong scroll it usually works and zooms in pretty far. But if I just scroll slightly sometimes nothing happens at all or it zooms in a stuttering, unpredictable way.
As for the Magic Mouse, yes and no..
If Prefs > Advanced > Throttle mouse-events = unchecked, the zoom stuttering is there on small wheel/finger gestures. For comparison, zoom is more fluent with the same mouse settings in the arrangement.

If throttle is checked (+ Reaper restart) the zoom definitely becomes smoother, however, I’m not keen on this setting as the mouse wheel is too slow for other places where I don’t want. You probably tried change this as well.

Btw. I use fastest tracking speed under macOS Prefs. Slowing this down doesn't change any stuttering.
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Old 11-23-2021, 12:55 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhelixK View Post
As for the Magic Mouse, yes and no..
If Prefs > Advanced > Throttle mouse-events = unchecked, the zoom stuttering is there on small wheel/finger gestures. For comparison, zoom is more fluent with the same mouse settings in the arrangement.

If throttle is checked (+ Reaper restart) the zoom definitely becomes smoother, however, I’m not keen on this setting as the mouse wheel is too slow for other places where I don’t want. You probably tried change this as well.
I am well aware of the throttle options. I still remember before we got them, working with the Magic Mouse in Reaper was a nightmare. Now that we can disable throttling it became useable (at least in the arrange window), even tough zooming and scrolling still doesn't work as smoothly as it should.

I am not really seeing an improvement in the MX preview when activating mouse throttling. Maybe the problem is that the MX preview window doesn't correctly follow the disabled throttling preferences?
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Old 11-23-2021, 02:25 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Phazma View Post
I am well aware of the throttle options. I still remember before we got them, working with the Magic Mouse in Reaper was a nightmare. Now that we can disable throttling it became useable (at least in the arrange window), even tough zooming and scrolling still doesn't work as smoothly as it should.

I am not really seeing an improvement in the MX preview when activating mouse throttling. Maybe the problem is that the MX preview window doesn't correctly follow the disabled throttling preferences?
Well, both throttle options definitely has stuttering, not like night and day. When engaged it just feels different to me, perhaps placebo on my side, ha-ha!

Adjusting the peak height is better, more natural, no?

Here’s both, with a restart in between,

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Old 11-23-2021, 03:58 PM   #10
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They are a little different, but I can't tell which one feels better. Both feel bad.

Also it is not easy to spot the differences in your gif, I would need to see both at the same time to judge.

Another question, when you swipe very slowly without lifting your finger, does anything happen? I can go slowly back and forth with my finger (keeping it on the mouse to not swipe to strongly) and no zooming happens most of the time.

Btw I think this discussion would need a dedicated topic. We've gone from a window focusing issue to criticizing mouse zooming smoothness
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Old 11-24-2021, 01:42 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazma View Post
They are a little different, but I can't tell which one feels better. Both feel bad.

Also it is not easy to spot the differences in your gif, I would need to see both at the same time to judge.

Another question, when you swipe very slowly without lifting your finger, does anything happen? I can go slowly back and forth with my finger (keeping it on the mouse to not swipe to strongly) and no zooming happens most of the time.

Btw I think this discussion would need a dedicated topic. We've gone from a window focusing issue to criticizing mouse zooming smoothness
- not so easy to demonstrate the exact behavior in a gif. Anyway, we're in the nitpick department, and I think we have about the same experience, including light mouse gestures. It seems like it's all connected to the general Reaper properties on mac. Fortunately, it gets better and better as time goes
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Old 11-24-2021, 02:10 AM   #12
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It seems like it's all connected to the general Reaper properties on mac. Fortunately, it gets better and better as time goes
Yes I hope that eventually Reaper will reach the point where all parts of its UI in macOS respond to mouse usage as smoothly and reliably as other mac apps do. But I am confident. The throttling preferences that make it possible to support inertial scrolling were already a first step in the right direction and showed some interest by the devs for supporting Apple’s 1st party peripherals like Magic Mouse and Trackpad. Now we only need smoothening out the more precise mouse movements and then apply the same performance of arrange mousewheel to areas like the MX preview.
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