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Old 03-19-2021, 05:39 AM   #1
radaget
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Default Guidance on getting into Auro 3D / Surround upmixing and recording.

Hi


I'm revisiting this as I still haven't figured it out and would really appreciate some advice on a way forward.

So I have a good home studio set up based around Reaper, Roland Studio Capture interface and KRK 10-3 monitors.

I've always had this vision of moving into surround sound as I always enjoy the immersive audio experience of film and music recorded in that format. For that I have a Yamaha AVR and some Wharfedale Diamond 9.1 speakers.

I'm struggling with understanding exactly what I need for the studio set up and if actually, any of the home theatre equipment could be used - purely for cost saving.

I have bought Penteo Pro 16 when it was on sale. I like the idea of converting my stereo ELO albums into Auro 3D and seeing what it sounds like. Further down the line may be mixing and recording my own music in a surround format.

So some unanswered questions I have are like this:

- What would be a good power amp to power the Wharfedale Diamond 9.1's if I wanted to link them to the Roland Studio Capture and is this even a possibility? Would this be cheaper than getting all new active monitors for the Auro 3D setup? (I was thinking IK Multimedia MTM monitors may be an option but this would still work out expensive vs passives).

- Would I need a speaker monitor controller or could I get away without one?

- Is it possible with what I have to potentially have both a stereo home studio set up using the actives and also a surround set up using passives all using the Roland Studio Capture?

- Can the Yamaha AVR be used in any way in the studio set up to act as the power amp (or more)?

- If when put together the surround sound studio, how would i then connect a blu ray player for instance? Would it be able to use the processing on the laptop rather than the Yamaha AVR?


I understand that it's not recommended to use passives for monitoring but as an entry level segway, as I already have them and they're not bad - i could accept using them in a surround studio set up.

Any help greatly appreciated.


Thanks
Tim
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Old 03-19-2021, 10:46 AM   #2
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The Yamaha could be OK, if we could only tell which one...

Sometimes, these AV amps have no simple analog inputs. That can be a pita, as audio over HDMI isn't always easy to set up.

Don't ditch the Little Diamonds. I haven't heard all of the different ones, but in general they are very nice sounding for their format and price.

I have a four channel setup running. Waiting to go to a typical cubic 8-channel. Minimal ambisonic speaker setup.

Went from active to passive just because in my case, hanging heavy speakers from the ceiling won't work. I'm currently using KEF Coda 7s. Small, lightweight and cheap.

I'm curious. Why Auro 3D?

I'll admit I don't know the first thing about it
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Old 03-20-2021, 12:36 AM   #3
radaget
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That's a very good spot Cyrano :-)...I currently have the Yamaha RX-V583 but when it goes on sale (and if its the right path to go down equipment wise) I'll probably end up getting the Denon 6700H.

I remember the Coda 7's. I have some Coda 8's which I really enjoyed.

Auro 3D simply down to what I've read so far about the experience of immersive audio. I understand it's more natural for music? So I was thinking that would be a better bet if I'm upmixing from stereo to Auro 3D initially. I'm happy to be convinced otherwise...
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Old 03-20-2021, 01:14 AM   #4
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I'll have a look at the amps specs later...

I'm following straight ambisonic for one reason: it's the only format I can record.

The aim is to go from first order ambi to headphone ambi and to the cubic 8 channel setup for experimentation.

It's just what seems feasible atm...
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Old 03-20-2021, 03:59 AM   #5
radaget
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Thanks...this is one subject matter I just dont get yet in terms of potential set ups and different formats. Hence my pretty novice questions Haha.

I know the Yamaha amp wont do Auro 3D but the Denon will. Also it seems to have the Auro Matic 3D upscaling. I just have no idea if this can be used in a studio set up along side the Roland Studio Capture audio interface (or even if it needs to).

It would make sense to have one system set up that can do both studio / production work and home theatre playback.

I dont know much about ambisonics or how it compares to Auro 3D etc. I imagine you could record any format using discreet channels with the DAW if you have enough microphone or even if you record tracks separately? But I'm probably completely wrong as I just dont know :-).

In my simplistic head, it could be as simple as setting Reaper up to record in surround, multi channel mode and then you could record whatever instrument you wanted to be through any speaker. But how you set this up interface and speaker wise whilst also being able to play back professionally recorded Audio 3D music and film, either via streaming or via dedicated player.

I know there are ambisonic microphones. Is this what you are using?

Thanks.

Last edited by radaget; 03-20-2021 at 04:10 AM.
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Old 03-20-2021, 04:37 AM   #6
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The recordings I admire are usually made with "natural" stereo. Like a classic sextet recorded with just a 2 mic ORTF setup.

Recordings from mono channels, level adjusted L/R, just never seem to have that depth of field.

Ambisonic is much older than most people think. It goes back to the fifties but never got much practical use after the consumer Hifi quad disaster.

First order ambisonic uses four mics, in close approximation. The end result is a four channel A-format wav. With this recording, you can generate almost anything.

The biggest problem is, everything is either mono, or stereo. Using four channel recordings with you average analog hardware is a pita. In Reaper, however, it doesn't matter. You've got new pitfalls, like "do I use a 1 fader 4 channel or 4 mono channels? Or even two stereo channels? Some plugins want it one way, some the other...

If an ambisonic plugin exists, it's probably most used with Reaper. There's a lot of plugins for it.

I've looked at consumer 5.1 gear, as it can be had for next to nothing second hand. I've steered away from it. Any receiver I looked at seemed to have some disadvantage. Usually the built-in DSP that sometimes seemed to screw up sound somehow. So I ended up with 14 channels (in 3 separate amp chassis) of classic power amp, from 60 to 400W
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Old 03-27-2021, 09:21 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyrano View Post
Ambisonic is much older than most people think. It goes back to the fifties but never got much practical use after the consumer Hifi quad disaster.
If we are talking about Gerzon & Felgett Ambisonics, it's more like late 60s, early 70s.
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Old 03-28-2021, 01:30 AM   #8
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You're right, Kewl. Michael Gerzon was born in '45. Doubt he did much audio math at the age of five :-)

There was some effort before, but he was the one that laid out the math needed for ambisonics.
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Old 03-31-2021, 10:44 AM   #9
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Default Either of these plug-ins?

Hello and great discussion going on there! I am researching some
ambisonic work flows and came across 2 plug-ins for mixing to a B file and wondering if anyone out here has used either?

Waves dual plugin bundle with headphone tracker
https://www.waves.com/hardware/360-a...s#tab-includes

And this RODE mic comes with it's own plug-in
https://www.waves.com/hardware/360-a...s#tab-includes

Thoughts on either of these?

THANKS!
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