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08-20-2010, 04:00 AM
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#321
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 167
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geoff > you nailed it, man!
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08-20-2010, 06:22 AM
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#322
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Prescott
Posts: 443
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chip mcdonald
Complexity does not = "professional".
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Thank you Chip!!!
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08-21-2010, 06:04 AM
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#323
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 43
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Smart menu
Have a "smart" menu, floating pallette, or dock tab...
That lists your recently used and/most used actions.
REAPER could watch/learn how you work through your history list.
Provide you with a palette of your recently/most used actions.
And provide quick ways to bind those actions to new keys/midi learn.
REAPER could learn at a geometric rate. All decisions could then be handled by REAPER.
Last edited by johnnygentry; 08-21-2010 at 06:12 AM.
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08-21-2010, 12:39 PM
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#324
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: D- Town
Posts: 21
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As a fairly new user trying to migrate from Sonar to Reaper I can just add a couple of things...
For me, Reaper is not an intuitive program..meaning... I have been looking at three paths - Reaper, Cubase, Studio one. in the other two..
Within 5 minutes of loading the program I was up and ready to arm,record and edit new tracks - never even consulted the manual.
Now, I fancy myself a power user with my current daw and I believe reading the manual is paramount...BUT... I should be able to do these basic things without having to because they are DAW 101 type functions.
Reaper's flexibility and it's engine's robustness are breathtaking but even the basics of getting my card and controllers set up was a head-scratcher..
It may not be overly complicated but its presentation is not streamlined and that will slow some people down and ultimately some may chose to go elsewhere..
The killer for me is Reainserts though.. This is where(and this is just my opinion) that Reaper shows it is NOT ready for primetime. I like to bring hardware in at mix-time and I do not use consoles or summing boxes. It's just the way I and a lot of other people like to work
It really does not matter if you value hardware in this role or not but if you are going to claim that you are a professionals tool and then have the kinds of issues setting up and working with hardware that Reainserts has (documented all over this forum).. then my simple answer has to and has been "guess we better move on".
Just a basic (core feature in my mind) that any professional music app should in today's "hybrid" world
My point is - Streamlined efficient workflow, simplifying of basic process, fully implemented and working core features and most importantly rock solid stability are the staples of "professional" quality recording software..
I think there are a lot of us out here who are Reaper fans but feel like the program is just not quite there yet.. Yep (who I remember from the old days)had a great post - someone else also summed it up nicely - "feels like a programmer's app"
Problem is - I am just a musician, mixer - I don't want nor have the desire or time to be a programmer. Give me all the flexibility - don't make me have to become an "insider" to use it
Just some thoughts - I'm still a fan ..just not completely sold on becoming part of the team yet..but I want to!
Last edited by dwayneking; 08-21-2010 at 12:45 PM.
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08-21-2010, 01:05 PM
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#325
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Near Cambridge UK and Near Questembert, France
Posts: 22,754
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I honestly hate to say it, but I am tending to slide into the same mindset too.
I`m currently going through a real mind-firk going from all OTB to all ITB & frankly I am finding it AR easier to get up and running in Sonar than reaper, even though intellectually I can see where Reaper would in all probability end up being far better suited to my needs.
But life is short and I just don`t see why it should be like joining the freemasons to set up a basic recording and monitoring setup.
Now before we get the usual brainiac smartarses responding with comment s like `read the FM, fool` or `well if you are an idiot use an idiot`s DAW` let us not forget that Jason & Co are supposedly making a tool hthat is flexible enough to accomodate amateur and pro alike.
I have a fair bit of experience on various different DAWs & am struggling with reaper in certain areas. Now think about how much harder it is for anyone coming to reaper without the computer aided music background.
So YES somthing does need to be done to streamline at least the basics of setting up a system and a recording and mixing session, never mind the minefield that is MIDI editing under reaper.
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08-21-2010, 01:24 PM
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#326
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 21,551
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yep
I've been using and advocating REAPER since it was in beta, and I daresay I've got more than a few people to switch. But the OP has a legitimate point, that REAPER has been becoming more and more self-referential, and increasingly expects users to know as much about REAPER and its history and community as they know about audio or computer recording.
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08-21-2010, 08:05 PM
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#327
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Cowtown
Posts: 1,562
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ivansc
I honestly hate to say it, but I am tending to slide into the same mindset too.
I`m currently going through a real mind-firk going from all OTB to all ITB & frankly I am finding it AR easier to get up and running in Sonar than reaper, even though intellectually I can see where Reaper would in all probability end up being far better suited to my needs.
But life is short and I just don`t see why it should be like joining the freemasons to set up a basic recording and monitoring setup.
Now before we get the usual brainiac smartarses responding with comment s like `read the FM, fool` or `well if you are an idiot use an idiot`s DAW` let us not forget that Jason & Co are supposedly making a tool hthat is flexible enough to accomodate amateur and pro alike.
I have a fair bit of experience on various different DAWs & am struggling with reaper in certain areas. Now think about how much harder it is for anyone coming to reaper without the computer aided music background.
So YES somthing does need to be done to streamline at least the basics of setting up a system and a recording and mixing session, never mind the minefield that is MIDI editing under reaper.
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Wow, JBM, are YOU making a DAW too? You sly dog, you!
I think you're talking about Justin...
Scott
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08-21-2010, 08:14 PM
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#328
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: South Coast UK
Posts: 14,303
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sstillwell
Wow, JBM, are YOU making a DAW too? You sly dog, you!
I think you're talking about Justin...
Scott
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No, but it looks like Lawrence is making a Door
__________________
The grass is greener where it rains
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08-22-2010, 12:01 AM
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#329
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Near Cambridge UK and Near Questembert, France
Posts: 22,754
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Aw shit! You post something serious for a change, make one little slip of the tripewriter and everyone ignores the meat and goes for the fun part.
Apologies to Jensen...
or Jonathan...
or Joaquin...
Jeffery?
Jeeves! (That`s the ticket....)
Bloody guitar players.... mutter mutter...grump grump....
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08-22-2010, 11:43 AM
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#330
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: South Coast UK
Posts: 14,303
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Sorry
Did you have a question?
It's just that all I can see is "something needs to be done about streamlining".
It's been said a hundred times or more, I've said it myself a few times.
Something is always being done about streamlining. Did I miss something, or do you wish your point to be acknowledged. If so I have done so
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The grass is greener where it rains
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08-22-2010, 01:21 PM
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#331
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Near Cambridge UK and Near Questembert, France
Posts: 22,754
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Who you talkin` to, fuzzy butt?
Seriously, I think there has tended to be a huge wash of positive feelings toward Reaper, from myselfr included, but maybe now it is time to get a little more objective, as we play less and less catchup with those other DAWS.
Reaper IS a fine program, written in lean code that works really really well.
But judging by the number of people who admit to struggling on here, there ARE two camps.
Those who already get it and those like myself who either semi or totally don`t get it.
Leave aside for one moment those who DO and those who DONT and consider the rest of us in the middle ground.
Probably most of us are still working at Reaper because we basically like what it does and how it does it.
Probably most of us have prior experience with other DAWs besides Reaper before arriving here.
I myself started programming MIDI back in 1990/1 and didn`t have a sequencer that allowed audio recording until Sonar 3.
Before I bought Sonar 3 I had tried just about every damn DAW out there, plus was involved in the first ever Pro Tools rig in Nashville.
Given that, I find it quite disturbing that I for one don`t find the note entry system for MIDI in the least bit intuitive, bearing in mind that just about every other sequencer I have used over the years adopted very very similar ways of doing things and there was NO learning curve involved at all.
I can understand why RTFM is necessary and totally accept that given the time and the energy and no need to actually make any music I could become an expert at Reaper.
What concerns me most is that we are heading towards version 4 and we still dont have straightforward methodologies that anyone can come to and pick up pretty rapidly.
FWIW I found exactly the same roadblocks with Logic and Live, so Reaper is not alone as far as I am concerned, but it still doesnt address the problems I see voiced on here with monotonous regularity.
Please don`t treat this as knocking our fave DAW, or even wanting our collective hands held to the Nth degree, this is for the most part normal rational beings who struggle with some of the more programmerly ways of doing things in Reaper.
I would like to suggest that instead of bickering about semantics and who is smart and who is dumb, we collectively try to address some of the problems people face in understanding the Reaper way.
Those of you who ARE really really good in Reaper could give the rest of us some good insights by reading what people are struggling with and explaining the how and why in elementary terms, not by self-referring or answering in TLAs. And PLEASE if you want us to RTFM could you at least give us a clue where to look in all those hundreds of pages?
Nine times out of ten if I do a search on the manual what I am looking for has some name that is different to what most other DAWs call it.
Most of you are too young to remember when Model T Fords had the brake on the outside and the accelerator in the middle. Might have been the worlds first mass selling car but even Henry wound up with the gas on the right and the brakes in the middle.
Last edited by ivansc; 08-22-2010 at 01:33 PM.
Reason: crap typing
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08-22-2010, 01:28 PM
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#332
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Near Cambridge UK and Near Questembert, France
Posts: 22,754
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tedwood
Sorry
Did you have a question?
It's just that all I can see is "something needs to be done about streamlining".
It's been said a hundred times or more, I've said it myself a few times.
Something is always being done about streamlining. Did I miss something, or do you wish your point to be acknowledged. If so I have done so
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O.K. I have a bunch of VSTis that I use, mostly drum romplers but not all.
I also have Kontakt 4, Play, B4II and the Emu Proteus instruments.
In my computer I have an RME hdsp9652 hooked up to a focusrite octopre with ADAT card and a Beri ADA8000.
Monitoring goes out from the rme to the ass of the Octo and from there to s SMPro Mpatch 2
Just run me through setting this lot up to work reliably with Reaper, MIDI in from a Roland PC200 keyboard, a Korg Nanokontrol and a beri BCF2000.
I do finally have this lot working and it took me a couple of weeks of head scratching to do it.
In sonar 8 it took me an afternoon.
I am deadly serious about wanting an answer to this as I cannot for the life of me remeber everything I went through to actually get this lot talking to each other and dread anything going wrong.
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08-22-2010, 02:23 PM
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#333
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: South Coast UK
Posts: 14,303
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I'm afraid I'm not very hot on the hardware side of things Ivan, someone like Evildragon would be a good person to ask.
May I suggest you post your specific problem on this board in a new thread, as I think it might not be seen in this thread
good luck
__________________
The grass is greener where it rains
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08-22-2010, 04:27 PM
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#334
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Cowtown
Posts: 1,562
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tedwood
I'm afraid I'm not very hot on the hardware side of things Ivan, someone like Evildragon would be a good person to ask.
May I suggest you post your specific problem on this board in a new thread, as I think it might not be seen in this thread
good luck
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This is a good point. If you are looking for the answer to a question, or the solution to a problem...ASK about that question or problem. If you have more than one problem, ask more than one quesiton...preferably in separate threads, unless YOU think something is relating those problems with each other (other than both involve you and REAPER).
If you want to ask philosophical questions about the direction of REAPER's development or why some "get it" and others don't...that's absolutely fine, too...but don't expect to get any answers to why the ADAT clock on your ADA8000 won't sync up (not that anyone specifically reported that...just grabbing part numbers out of the thread and making a hypothetical scenario).
In general, posting a thread with a title of "I'm going to lose my mind!" or "REAPER is so NOT teh win" is not likely to draw helpful responses to why that digital clock isn't syncing up. Flamebait, yes...helpful responses? not so much.
Not saying that's going on here, but it does happen more than it should (on forums in general, not just here). Say what you mean, mean what you say, and don't say it in a mean fashion...we then wind up with more people saying "This is a nice place, the people 'round here are nice."...totally excluding for the moment that more problems actually get SOLVED in a timely manner that way.
/steps off soapbox
Scott
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08-23-2010, 12:01 AM
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#335
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Near Cambridge UK and Near Questembert, France
Posts: 22,754
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Remember I didnt start this thread - I have been expressing my mild frusatration with what is otherwise a good program and a good forum.
Unfortunately that IS what happens on public fora & I for one would hate to see the right to vent ones frustration in the company of like minded colleagues disappear.
A forum that was nothing but problem solving would be a very sterile place.
And of course now I have actually asked you boffins to put up, I get told to rephrase my question and post it in a more appropriate place!
If life wasnt so short and mine in particular I would probably start getting a little miffed at all the barrack room lawyering going on here.
I genuinely struggled doing what I outlined in my previous post and honestly believe that if my struggle is symptomatic of what your average newb is trying to deal with, maybe there DOES need to be either a fast track get you started area on here or a streamlined Reaper for newbs overlay/menu set that people could dip their toes with.
Not wishing to denigrate the efforts of those who have brought us the manual and all the other "maps of the course" but I dont think anyone could say that the Reaper manual is an easy read or that finding information on specific subjects is easy.
And that is where I agree with the OP.
Sorry if this isn`t a popular opinion but I am merely adding weight to the same opinion already expressed on here and other places by many other people.
If reaper is to go forward and achieve the same status sales wise as the other major DAWs, the documentation needs to be a lot clearer or include a get you started that actually does.
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08-23-2010, 01:15 AM
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#336
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: South Coast UK
Posts: 14,303
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Oh you are quite entitled to vent if you like, I just thought we might be able to help better if we knew what the problem was specifically.
Honestly, I think most people that can help might not be reading this thread
__________________
The grass is greener where it rains
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08-23-2010, 01:21 AM
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#337
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Near Cambridge UK and Near Questembert, France
Posts: 22,754
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Agreed, but this started out as a general philosophical commentary on the current state of Reaper, not a HELP thread.
I haven`t tried to change that, you have.
Please do not misunderstand me I am not trying to be contentious here, just trying to support the OP`s point in the face of what appears to me to be a series of posts by people who want to deny that there is a problem in the first place, or don`t see the need to find a way forward.
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08-23-2010, 02:13 AM
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#338
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Near Cambridge UK and Near Questembert, France
Posts: 22,754
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having posted the aboe and then gone back to read the entire thread, I decided that maybe I should check out reamenus finally.
Shame it doesnt work with 2.5.8, which is what I use.
So I am faced with installing the current version as a trial for 30 days and not only checking out reamenus but also having to deal with all that has happened since 2.5.8 hit the skids.
And all I really want to do is record and edit some audio & midi stuff on my computer..
maybe it is just me, but the MIDI note editing I find utterly non-intuitive and awkward to say the least. Is there a way to mouse in a note that doesnt involve having to move it to where you actually wanted it in the first place or alternatively having to use a mouse/keyboad combination to get it where you want it inthe first place?
taking the advice offered on here I will be reposting this as a separate thread just to see what the folks come up with.
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08-23-2010, 06:20 AM
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#339
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: South Coast UK
Posts: 14,303
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Sorry, I thought you were frustrated at not being able to do something in particular, I'll mind my own business from now on
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The grass is greener where it rains
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08-23-2010, 07:23 AM
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#340
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ivansc
And all I really want to do is record and edit some audio & midi stuff on my computer..
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Listen up, bubba. As far as I can see from what specific details you have posted in amongst your venting you have these issues to deal with.
1. Understanding how to configure the hardware inputs and outputs for your RME card and how to route signal in an out. Also how to get a grip on the routing matrix to configure in's & out's flexibly and easily.
2. How to set up your midi ports and route in your Roland. Plus how to record the Roland's output to a track.
3. How to configure midi ports to enable control from the Korg Nano & BCF.
4. The note entry thing.
If you PM me I'll advise you best I can dealing with each issue one at a time.
ns
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08-23-2010, 08:02 AM
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#341
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Lincoln, UK
Posts: 7,924
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ivansc
having posted the aboe and then gone back to read the entire thread, I decided that maybe I should check out reamenus finally.
Shame it doesnt work with 2.5.8, which is what I use.
So I am faced with installing the current version as a trial for 30 days and not only checking out reamenus but also having to deal with all that has happened since 2.5.8 hit the skids.
And all I really want to do is record and edit some audio & midi stuff on my computer..
maybe it is just me, but the MIDI note editing I find utterly non-intuitive and awkward to say the least. Is there a way to mouse in a note that doesnt involve having to move it to where you actually wanted it in the first place or alternatively having to use a mouse/keyboad combination to get it where you want it inthe first place?
taking the advice offered on here I will be reposting this as a separate thread just to see what the folks come up with.
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I know I don't install every update (though I skim thru many including some Pres looking for useful New and Improved), but there has been quite a lot happening since 2.58; why the reticence to try later versions Ivan? I don't use MIDI these days (apart from MTC) so I can't chip-in specifically, but I know from the background radiation levels that there have been many MIDI improvs and tweaks since 2.58.
I do agree with you that REAPER names things differently and goes about certain things in a non-conventional way. It took me a couple of months to get my head around it when I started and I only did this because I wanted to do some specific stuff with a DAW myself instead of sending mixes out. For someone who "does sound" as a living (I won't call it professional), I do find that this gets in my way when I just want to get on with getting something done. For those of us who don't really have time to learn the REAPER way it can be frustrating
>
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08-23-2010, 09:13 AM
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#342
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Cowtown
Posts: 1,562
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ivansc
Remember I didnt start this thread - I have been expressing my mild frusatration with what is otherwise a good program and a good forum.
Unfortunately that IS what happens on public fora & I for one would hate to see the right to vent ones frustration in the company of like minded colleagues disappear.
A forum that was nothing but problem solving would be a very sterile place.
And of course now I have actually asked you boffins to put up, I get told to rephrase my question and post it in a more appropriate place!
If life wasnt so short and mine in particular I would probably start getting a little miffed at all the barrack room lawyering going on here.
I genuinely struggled doing what I outlined in my previous post and honestly believe that if my struggle is symptomatic of what your average newb is trying to deal with, maybe there DOES need to be either a fast track get you started area on here or a streamlined Reaper for newbs overlay/menu set that people could dip their toes with.
Not wishing to denigrate the efforts of those who have brought us the manual and all the other "maps of the course" but I dont think anyone could say that the Reaper manual is an easy read or that finding information on specific subjects is easy.
And that is where I agree with the OP.
Sorry if this isn`t a popular opinion but I am merely adding weight to the same opinion already expressed on here and other places by many other people.
If reaper is to go forward and achieve the same status sales wise as the other major DAWs, the documentation needs to be a lot clearer or include a get you started that actually does.
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Wasn't directing my response at you, particularly...just making note of something I have seen more than once, from multiple people.
I agree that if it was ONLY problemsolving, it would be dry dull place...but I think you might be able to agree that asking a question about importing PT projects might not get the best response if posted into a thread about editing techniques for Death Metal drums... As well, if that poster started a thread with a title "This is b*llsh*t!!!" rather than "Need help importing PT session into REAPER...", they would probably get a different set of repsonses...ones that might or might not be useful.
Once again...I wasn't talking specifically about you...I was just saying that Tedwood's comment reminded me to say something about what I've seen happening.
REAPER isn't perfect, nor is it likely to suddenly become so tomorrow. Criticism is good if done constructively...which is harder than it sounds.
At the end of the day, I guess it just comes down to this: Sorry if that rubbed you the wrong way...it wasn't my intent. The gun wasn't loaded, nor was it pointed in your direction.
Scott
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08-23-2010, 09:50 AM
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#343
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Near Cambridge UK and Near Questembert, France
Posts: 22,754
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SS didnt think for a minute you had joined the lunatic fringe.
Always lucid balanced comments from you in my experience.
Following re-reading the WHOLE of this thread again from start to finish,
I ran myself a nice hot bath, printed off the Sonar to reaper migration booklet that appeared in reaper resources recently, together with the reaper shortcuts file and chilled in the bath.
Well, warmed actually.
Got out of the bath, fired up reaper and youtube pointed at all the reaoer tutorial vids I could find.
I managed to get as far as two audio tracks following the instructions to the letter before I hit my first area of confusion.
Suspect this is going to be a long slow process for one so ingrained in working with one sequencer for 20 years and 1 daw for five!
Still persevering, but at least the computer works and I know the monitoring works OK in reaper.
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