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Old 04-10-2012, 03:51 PM   #41
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Here you go

They're made to overlay on a blank toolbar image, so they'll work in other themes as well as the default even though the green might look out of place.
Awesome, thanks! A newbie question -- how do you arrange your icons in the toolbar like you have it, with a little bit of space in between some?
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Old 04-10-2012, 03:56 PM   #42
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Right click in the menu customisation window > Insert separator
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Old 04-10-2012, 09:45 PM   #43
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Hmmm... appears as though grouped items seem to really mess things up. Guess it's because as the items attempt to get moved around, it tries to move all of the items that are moved along with it (on different tracks).

Is there a way to ungroup everything at the beginning of the process and regroup them at the end? My guess is that may be difficult to do given how potentially complicated the groups could get.
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Old 04-10-2012, 11:19 PM   #44
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I stuck some together earlier today while trying them out, but need more now that jnif's updated again Just used some existing v4 default icons and tweaked them - that's what would be ideal imo, making them "v4 default-ish" design and size-wise. The "show selected" is an unchanged v4 default icon:



- create new
- set active
- copy to active
- copy comp to new
- show selection only
- show all

They're not perfect though imo - the group of three are all a little ambiguous - not denoting "set" and "copy" as well as possible; also the "show selection only" one could be more specific. Any ideas?
Thanks Timlloyd. I like the "v4 default-ish" design.
Some ideas for the group of three.
- Set active. Maybe this icon could indicate the "rotation" of tracks. Selected one goes to top (upward arrow arc), top one goes one step lower (smaller downward arrow arc). On the other hand this could look too complicated. Set active operation is quite basic operation. Thus, it might be good to keep the icon design simple. In that respect your icon is good.
- Copy to active. The lower bright gree bar could be a bit shorter indicating that only parts of track will be copied. And maybe also faint vertical lines going through both tracks could be added to indicate time selection. Although time selection is optional in this action. Maybe dashed vertical lines could indicate the optional time selection. Again this could easily become too complicated. In Pro Tools the icon for this action is plain up arrow.
- Copy comp to new. The upper part could be modified a bit. Maybe the bright green blocks could be shorter (more like short horizontal bars) and they could be in alternating vertical positions indicating different active takes in a comp.

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Hmmm... appears as though grouped items seem to really mess things up. Guess it's because as the items attempt to get moved around, it tries to move all of the items that are moved along with it (on different tracks).

Is there a way to ungroup everything at the beginning of the process and regroup them at the end? My guess is that may be difficult to do given how potentially complicated the groups could get.
Thanks for testing and feedback. I have to check and fix the grouped item behavior.
Also in Pro Tools the support for grouped clips in playlists seems to be quite limited.

jnif
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Old 04-10-2012, 11:25 PM   #45
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Thanks for testing and feedback. I have to check and fix the grouped item behavior.
Also in Pro Tools the support for grouped clips in playlists seems to be quite limited.
Yeah I bet that's true. To be honest, I never even used region grouping in Pro Tools... but it seems that when editing drums in REAPER, due to the lack of edit groups (of tracks), the only way to maintain coherence is to use item grouping.
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Old 04-11-2012, 12:50 AM   #46
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I did a search on the web but most videos I found weren't helpful. Can someone please point me out to a video where playlists are explained and how they work in PT (I'd like to see them in action).

Thanks
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Old 04-11-2012, 01:41 AM   #47
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Here are 3 alternate versions of some icons.



- set active
- copy to active
- copy comp to new

I'm not sold on them yet
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Old 04-11-2012, 01:31 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by timlloyd View Post
Here are 3 alternate versions of some icons.



- set active
- copy to active
- copy comp to new

I'm not sold on them yet
I like those copy icons. The new 'set active' icon looks a bit complicated. The first version was better.
One more idea: The takes in 'copy comp to new' icon could be different color. For example blue. It would clearly indicate that those blocks are not items.

-----------

Playlist script v7 is in attachments.
Changes:
+ Automatic numbering of playlist track names. Similar to Pro Tools.
+ Fixed track visibility problems when scripts are used while some tracks are hidden. This was quite tricky problem. It seems like _SWS_RESTOREVIEW is not working properly. I had to create a bit messy workaround to solve this problem.

Things I'm planning to do next:
- Solve problems with grouped items.
- Add 'Explode takes to playlists' script.
- Lots of testing. I hope you can help in this. The scripts are already quite complex and there can be some unexpected side effects.


jnif

Last edited by jnif; 07-18-2021 at 03:48 AM.
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Old 04-11-2012, 01:41 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by jnif View Post
Playlist script v7 is in attachments.
Changes:
+ Automatic numbering of playlist track names. Similar to Pro Tools.
+ Fixed track visibility problems when scripts are used while some tracks are hidden. This was quite tricky problem. It seems like _SWS_RESTOREVIEW is not working properly. I had to create a bit messy workaround to solve this problem.

Things I'm planning to do next:
- Solve problems with grouped items.
- Add 'Explode takes to playlists' script.
- Lots of testing. I hope you can help in this. The scripts are already quite complex and there can be some unexpected side effects.


jnif
Awesome! I will certainly be able to give lots of feedback. I'm just starting a project and will plan to use these scripts extensively so will certainly relay back what I find.

One thing I haven't quite thought through (and I'm not at home to play with it, but I *think* I know how it will work), but I'm considering the process of comping and auditioning (though perhaps this is taking the concept beyond its initial intent, which was to maintain a history of work, and use the take system for comping), but it seems as though it'd be hard to audition any of the playlist tracks, as whatever is on the active playlist will always be playing (so I guess it would play both the active and child playlist together). Is there any way around this?

Thanks for all your work on this jnif (and Tim on the icons )!
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Old 04-11-2012, 01:54 PM   #50
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One thing I haven't quite thought through (and I'm not at home to play with it, but I *think* I know how it will work), but I'm considering the process of comping and auditioning (though perhaps this is taking the concept beyond its initial intent, which was to maintain a history of work, and use the take system for comping), but it seems as though it'd be hard to audition any of the playlist tracks, as whatever is on the active playlist will always be playing (so I guess it would play both the active and child playlist together). Is there any way around this?
It should be quite easy to audition playlist tracks. Just enable solo on any playlist track inside a folder. The media items on active playlist (the folder parent) will not play at the same time. But for example parent track's volume envelope and FX will be used.

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Old 04-11-2012, 02:07 PM   #51
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It should be quite easy to audition playlist tracks. Just enable solo on any playlist track inside a folder. The media items on active playlist (the folder parent) will not play at the same time. But for example parent track's volume envelope and FX will be used.

jnif
Ohhhh I guess you're right. I forgot about that feature (that soloing a child track will allow the parent send to pass). This will also then 'mute' all other tracks in the project though, correct? So still not quite the same functionality of PT (where you may want to audition different vocal takes against the rest of the tracks).

Not to look a gift horse in the mouth of course
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Old 04-11-2012, 04:06 PM   #52
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I did a search on the web but most videos I found weren't helpful. Can someone please point me out to a video where playlists are explained and how they work in PT (I'd like to see them in action).

Thanks
They're basically just alternate track layers. If you've used Studio One, it's track layers are pretty much the same thing as PT's playlists. Record a track, switch to a new "layer", record again, comp among them and/or experiment on new layers or new playlists.

Duplicate a playlist, perform some edits, you still have both, you can switch between them. Not sure if PT allows switching those during playback or not though. Being PT, I'd guess not.

Not really all that different from Reapers takes except you don't have to look at all of them on the main track, and making multiple composite edits in playlists is a bit easier.

And what he said above, soloing a playlist (or layer) is exclusive to it's track group, it doesn't shut everything else off in the song.

Last edited by Lawrence; 04-11-2012 at 04:17 PM.
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Old 04-11-2012, 08:13 PM   #53
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They're basically just alternate track layers. If you've used Studio One, it's track layers are pretty much the same thing as PT's playlists. Record a track, switch to a new "layer", record again, comp among them and/or experiment on new layers or new playlists.

Duplicate a playlist, perform some edits, you still have both, you can switch between them. Not sure if PT allows switching those during playback or not though. Being PT, I'd guess not.

Not really all that different from Reapers takes except you don't have to look at all of them on the main track, and making multiple composite edits in playlists is a bit easier.

And what he said above, soloing a playlist (or layer) is exclusive to it's track group, it doesn't shut everything else off in the song.
But REAPER can do all that with its "comps" and the project bay. You don't actually have to see all takes all the time if you use Ctrl+L. I feel there's something else I'm missing here, did you find a video somewhere where I can see it in action? Sounds interesting but all this scripting looks like a waste of time to me because we have "comps".
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Old 04-11-2012, 08:44 PM   #54
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v7 Bug: If a new playlist is made for a track that is muted, the new playlist will not be correctly placed as a child under the muted track. Everything seems to be created correctly, however.
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Old 04-11-2012, 08:56 PM   #55
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But REAPER can do all that with its "comps" and the project bay. You don't actually have to see all takes all the time if you use Ctrl+L. I feel there's something else I'm missing here, did you find a video somewhere where I can see it in action? Sounds interesting but all this scripting looks like a waste of time to me because we have "comps".
I don't actually think it's much different functionally, just a different road to the same place maybe and maybe a bit of a different workflow. Anyway there's tons of playlist vids out there for PT.

This guy talks about using playlists for alternate mixes, something I can't say I'm familiar with.

http://www.homestudiocorner.com/4-wa...-in-pro-tools/

Ok, that was nothing special. . He just printed mixes to different layers.

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Old 04-11-2012, 08:59 PM   #56
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v7 bug: Think this should be doable: when selecting a hidden track to set as the active track (via the track manager), get the error:

Script execution error

Traceback (most recent call last):
File "playlist_set_active.py", line 154, in <module>
RPR_SetMediaTrackInfo_Value(trNew, "B_SHOWINTCP", newTrackShowInTCP)
NameError: name 'trNew' is not defined

Edit: Hmm... maybe this is not possible? Does the track need to be selected in the TCP, not just the track manager?
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Old 04-11-2012, 09:05 PM   #57
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I don't actually think it's much different functionally, just a different road to the same place maybe and maybe a bit of a different workflow. Anyway there's tons of playlist vids out there for PT.

This guy talks about using playlists for alternate mixes, something I can't say I'm familiar with.

http://www.homestudiocorner.com/4-wa...-in-pro-tools/

Ok, that was nothing special. . He just printed mixes to different layers.
hehe that's what I'm talking about, I've watched like 4 or 5 videos but none of them actually showed me how playlists work, at least the basics or something. I'd like to see one video where someone explains how to create them and then how to use them (real life use) but I can't find anything
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Old 04-11-2012, 09:06 PM   #58
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I have to agree with MN here. Except for maybe bringng that funcitonality (as a practical matter) directly into arrange, not sure why it's worth all the trouble, unless you would just rather not deal with the other windows.
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Old 04-11-2012, 09:15 PM   #59
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hehe that's what I'm talking about, I've watched like 4 or 5 videos but none of them actually showed me how playlists work, at least the basics or something. I'd like to see one video where someone explains how to create them and then how to use them (real life use) but I can't find anything
That link I posted shows a few uses. The other part I talked about comes later. The most common uses are recording takes, comping, loop recording & alternate edits. Things you can do in most any daw, maybe not quite as easily in some cases,
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Old 04-11-2012, 10:13 PM   #60
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That link I posted shows a few uses. The other part I talked about comes later. The most common uses are recording takes, comping, loop recording & alternate edits. Things you can do in most any daw, maybe not quite as easily in some cases,
That is true. There are some cases where it is nice to have autonomous playlists like in ProTools (where each new playlist need have no relation in terms of content or position to others). My problem is I can think of several times when this is not desired above a take/lanes system. Comping is the big one. Switching between playlists is not the same simple task as switching between lanes. There is also the problem of active management. A new take or lane is automatically added each time record is initiated in a program like Reaper. This may create a visual mess in some cases but all those takes are easily accessible. In PT the user needs to actively initiate a new playlist or their subsequent recording on the track is likely to bury the old ones in an unwieldy pile of overlapping clips hidden in the right click menu and/or region/clip manager. This is just a long way of agreeing that the ease of use goes both ways depending on the case.
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Old 04-11-2012, 10:14 PM   #61
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But REAPER can do all that with its "comps" and the project bay. You don't actually have to see all takes all the time if you use Ctrl+L. I feel there's something else I'm missing here, did you find a video somewhere where I can see it in action? Sounds interesting but all this scripting looks like a waste of time to me because we have "comps".
I think the main difference between Reaper's take comps and playlists is that you can't have multiple non-destructively edited versions of your takes saved as comps. In playlists you can save all your edits without glueing or rendering.

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Old 04-11-2012, 10:30 PM   #62
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I think the main difference between Reaper's take comps and playlists is that you can't have multiple non-destructively edited versions of your takes saved as comps. In playlists you can save all your edits without glueing or rendering.

jnif
Like splits? I mean, can I move splits in PT, save them as a playlist, go back and move my split again and save it in another playlist and that split will change accordingly when I switch playlists?
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Old 04-11-2012, 10:36 PM   #63
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Comping is the big oneSwitching between playlists is not the same simple task as switching between lanes.
Well ... they actually can display in lanes all at the same time or not, but yeah, preferences related to all that varies. Agree.

But there's no switching when comping, it works pretty much like Cubendo, Logic and the rest. Maybe actually a little less well, but similar.
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Old 04-11-2012, 10:42 PM   #64
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Like splits? I mean, can I move splits in PT, save them as a playlist, go back and move my split again and save it in another playlist and that split will change accordingly when I switch playlists?
Yeah. It's discreet media / edit references I think. S1 works the same way. An edit on one playlist or layer has no effect on another.

Obviously, you can do that in most daws by manually duplicating clips, but it get increasingly more difficult to manage.

Not sure about PT but this all also works for midi. Layers and playlists. Never actually tried to comp midi in Reaper so, can't speak to it.

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Old 04-11-2012, 10:48 PM   #65
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Playlist script v7 is in attachments.
Changes:
+ Automatic numbering of playlist track names. Similar to Pro Tools.
+ Fixed track visibility problems when scripts are used while some tracks are hidden. This was quite tricky problem. It seems like _SWS_RESTOREVIEW is not working properly. I had to create a bit messy workaround to solve this problem.
Man this stuff is great. As people are pointing out, it's really important to find the right balance between utilizing the comping for what it's great at, but slipping in playlists where they can help.

Regarding the auto-numbering, I personally think it would make more sense for the newly created playlist to have the next highest number. That way, the playlist that is currently active will not have its name changed when a new one is created.
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Old 04-11-2012, 11:14 PM   #66
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v7 Bug: If a new playlist is made for a track that is muted, the new playlist will not be correctly placed as a child under the muted track. Everything seems to be created correctly, however.
This is a "feature" added in script v5.
Does this feature have some negative effect on your workflow?

The feature was supposed to partially solve this FR:
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Actually, one comment - seems like a good idea to modify the "create new" script so that if you run it when a child track of an existing "playlist" is selected, it doesn't create a sub-playlist ... but instead selects the parent first and then creates a new child track. If that makes sense.
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Old 04-11-2012, 11:18 PM   #67
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This is a "feature" added in script v5.
Does this "feature" have some negative effect on your workflow?

jnif
I ran into it when working with a live multitrack. I had a click track that I didn't want to listen to, so it was muted. But, I needed to keep it in there to keep everything lined up. Not a super negative effect -- just not what I was expecting. Just out of curiosity what was your workflow scenario that made you decide to add it?
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Old 04-11-2012, 11:21 PM   #68
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Yeah. It's discreet media / edit references I think. S1 works the same way. An edit on one playlist or layer has no effect on another.
That's great, yeah. Sometimes I don't make comps because splits aren't "stored". I wish a comp didn't have anything to do with the other. Thanks Lawrence, that helped
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Old 04-11-2012, 11:27 PM   #69
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Playlist script v8 is in attachments.
Changes:
+ More fixes to track visibility problems.
+ Bug reported in post #56 should be fixed now.
+ Better auto-numbering of track names when creating new playlists (as requested in post #65)

jnif

Last edited by jnif; 07-18-2021 at 03:48 AM.
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Old 04-11-2012, 11:34 PM   #70
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Playlist script v8 is in attachments.
Changes:
+ More fixes to track visibility problems.
+ Bug reported in post #56 should be fixed now.
+ Better auto-numbering of track names when creating new playlists (as requested in post #65)

jnif
Man... you're better than Cockos at updates!
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Old 04-11-2012, 11:39 PM   #71
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Playlist script v8 is in attachments.
Changes:
+ More fixes to track visibility problems.
+ Bug reported in post #56 should be fixed now.
+ Better auto-numbering of track names when creating new playlists (as requested in post #65)

jnif
Sorry to nit, but now looks like the 'duplicate playlist' script and 'new playlist' script have different naming algorithms. Or at least, the duplicate script doesn't activate the newly named one.

Edit: Also 'copy comp to new playlist' behaves the same as 'duplicate playlist' -- that the newly created one is not made active.
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Old 04-12-2012, 12:14 AM   #72
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That's great, yeah. Sometimes I don't make comps because splits aren't "stored". I wish a comp didn't have anything to do with the other. Thanks Lawrence, that helped
^^ the same here!

I don't know PT playlists either but for comping, we use the S&M Resources view. 1 click to save a "comp" (with splits, fades, etc..), 1 dbl-click to restore another:



(now that we have take alignment, I think this is the thing I use the more in the extensions. I can detail that if interested..)
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Old 04-12-2012, 01:23 AM   #73
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^^ the same here!

I don't know PT playlists either but for comping, we use the S&M Resources view. 1 click to save a "comp" (with splits, fades, etc..), 1 dbl-click to restore another:



(now that we have take alignment, I think this is the thing I use the more in the extensions. I can detail that if interested..)
Helloooo Mr. Frenchman!

Sure, that'd be interesting, please spread your wisdom
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Old 04-12-2012, 02:33 AM   #74
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^^ the same here!

I don't know PT playlists either but for comping, we use the S&M Resources view. 1 click to save a "comp" (with splits, fades, etc..), 1 dbl-click to restore another:



(now that we have take alignment, I think this is the thing I use the more in the extensions. I can detail that if interested..)
This looks quite handy.

However, playlists in Pro Tools and in Reaper (with Playlist_Scripts) have still some advantages:
- You can (optionally) see all comps at the same time.
- You can filter the visibility of comps based on time selection.
- You can audition alternative playlists/comps without changing the current active (main) playlist.
- Everything is saved to normal project file. You (or other project members) don't need to install any extensions to get access to playlists/comps.

Are those somehow possible also in S&M Resources view?

And it looks like edits are not automatically saved to existing comps in S&M Resources view. Do you need to create a new comp to save any edit? That would be quite awkward.

jnif

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Old 04-12-2012, 03:23 AM   #75
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...I don't know PT playlists either but for comping, we use the S&M Resources view...
Short question: What is S&M ?

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Old 04-12-2012, 05:11 AM   #76
Lawrence
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercado_Negro View Post
That's great, yeah. Sometimes I don't make comps because splits aren't "stored". I wish a comp didn't have anything to do with the other. Thanks Lawrence, that helped
No problem. When you initially asked, that's kinda why I said "It works pretty much like S1's layers." I thought you had a dusty copy laying around and would immediately get the reference to that... for that part anyway... edit layers.

Anyway, like I said earlier, playlists are just a potentially better way of managing what many people do manually anyway. Comping is only one part of it. Another part is kind of a non-sequential "undo", in that you can duplicate a playlist, do a bunch of edits, bounce, pitch, whatever, and immediately jump back to the original parts and/or A/B them in realtime in some cases.

Being able to switch multiple playlists at the same time is one of the main things if you're multitracking or mixing. Not just to switch between comps, but multitrack edits, or multiple comps or multiple different edits across multiple tracks and even multiple completely different track arrangements.

One playlist might be an entirely different arrangement, a radio edit or something. You can do all that in any editor, but it's more manual work to create and manage it all.

Last edited by Lawrence; 04-12-2012 at 05:27 AM.
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Old 04-12-2012, 01:48 PM   #77
jnif
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Playlist script v9
==================
Changes:
+ Bug fixes related to item grouping
+ Consistent track ordering and naming
+ More track visibility bug fixes

jnif

Last edited by jnif; 07-18-2021 at 03:48 AM.
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Old 04-12-2012, 04:02 PM   #78
Triode
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Default Multi track comping!

Multi track comping in PT and Reaper has a similar fiddlyness... If only we had a way of editing folders as one item - that would be fantastic. We can already see the combined waveforms on a folder track. It seems like only a short step in functionality to be able to edit the takes from there too.
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Old 04-12-2012, 04:49 PM   #79
timlloyd
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^ You sort of can do cut/copy/paste already using only folder waveform indicators. You just need macros that start off by selecting only the children, then selecting items under the edit cursor on selected tracks ...

Here's a basic cut script for example, there's room for improvement ...

Code:
selChildren = RPR_NamedCommandLookup("_SWS_SELCHILDREN")
selItems = RPR_NamedCommandLookup("_XENAKIOS_SELITEMSUNDEDCURSELTX")
selTrack = RPR_GetSelectedTrack(0, 0)
folderDepth = RPR_GetMediaTrackInfo_Value(selTrack, "I_FOLDERDEPTH")
if folderDepth == 1:
    RPR_Main_OnCommand(selChildren, 0)
    RPR_Main_OnCommand(selItems, 0)
    # cut
    RPR_Main_OnCommand(41384, 0)
Probably would work fine as a normal macro. Doing it in a script gives the option to make a single cut action that works for normal tracks as well as folders ...

I'm not really advocating using the above script as-is btw ... it's got a major flaw in the reliance on selecting items under the edit cursor ...

Last edited by timlloyd; 04-12-2012 at 04:55 PM.
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Old 04-12-2012, 09:07 PM   #80
pianogineer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jnif View Post
Playlist script v9
==================
Changes:
+ Bug fixes related to item grouping
+ Consistent track ordering and naming
+ More track visibility bug fixes

jnif
'Set Active' appears busted in this version -- the previously active items are not moved to the now inactive track correctly.
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