Best Replacement for PT "Playlists"

[pianogineer]

So I've searched and searched on this, and maybe there's no answer, but I'm looking for a way to replace my PT workflow which is centered around 'playlists' in REAPER.

What I like to do in PT is track say 5 takes of an instrument, say Bass, as playlists named Bass.01 - Bass.05. I then like to comp them down to a playlist named 'Bass.Comp'. I then Use this comp'd playlist to make edits to, which I then call 'Bass.Edit'. This is usually the final track, but other tracks may have others (for example tuning may be Vocals.Tuned, etc.). The reason I like to do this is that there's always a history of my work, and all steps are maintained should I need to go back and tweak something, all the way down to the raw tracks.

The only way I can seem to think to do this in REAPER would be to use track folders... but there are limitations on this. 1) They're not necessarily made for this, where inherently only one child should be 'active' (non-muted) at a time. 2) Layout wise, if you actually want to see the items, you have at a minimum two track heights visible at any one time -- that of the parent (with all your FX and levels on it) and that of the active child (with the items on it). This takes up too much space and is simply awkward looking.

So, is there any other better workaround/workflow adjustment that I'm missing?

[CaptainHook]

Interested in this as well!!

[planetnine]

Can something be done using takes and custom actions?

>

[Finnish]

Also interested in this

[djjedidiah]

I would do dirty things to have this. Since I know not everyone here is a PT refugee, for those that aren't, watch this and see if it isn't better than what Reaper uses for takes now:

http://youtu.be/jEIl92gutlM?t=1m3s

Around 4 minutes in he does automatic loop recording to playlists.

[FarBeyondMetal]

It's a little more work, and a slightly different approach than playlists, but it is possible to keep a history of what you have done. What I like to do is do my comping, then copy the active playlists to a new track and hide the track with all the takes. That way if I want to change the comp later I can unhide the original track and make some changes. It's a pretty basic approach to comping but it seems to work well for me.

[plush2]

Originally Posted by FarBeyondMetal

It's a little more work, and a slightly different approach than playlists, but it is possible to keep a history of what you have done. What I like to do is do my comping, then copy the active playlists to a new track and hide the track with all the takes. That way if I want to change the comp later I can unhide the original track and make some changes. It's a pretty basic approach to comping but it seems to work well for me.

Is the new 'comp' feature anything like what you are describing? I haven't seen it mentioned here and I haven't played with it yet myself but it seems (from my PT experiences) to offer some of the same functions.

[FarBeyondMetal]

Originally Posted by plush2

Is the new 'comp' feature anything like what you are describing? I haven't seen it mentioned here and I haven't played with it yet myself but it seems (from my PT experiences) to offer some of the same functions.

I don't know too much about how REAPER's comp saving/loading feature works, but I do know that I use the default recording behavior for v4, which is "splits existing items and creates new takes". In v3 I believe the default behavior was "splits existing items". The difference between these two isn't perfectly clear to me, probably because I make a point of not having REAPER split my items in the first place.

My general process is to record section by section in time selection auto punch so I don't get any weird mosaic looking items with lots of splits. Then I comp each section by splitting the items and selecting the takes I want. Once I have done this I simply select all the items and use the SWS action "copy active take" and then paste it all on a new track. I am aware of the feature that allows you to save comps but I just feel that this way works better for me. Hopefully that wasn't too long winded and was at least somewhat helpful.

[jnif]

Inspired by this discussion I created two Python scripts which add basic playlist functions to Reaper.
The scripts are in the attached zip file.

First script creates a new playlist, the second script sets the active playlist.

The scripts are using tracks inside folders as playlists. Active playlist is always in the parent track and other inactive playlists are muted child tracks. Creating folders, muting tracks, and moving items between active/inactive playlists is handled automatically. You just use those two script actions with toolbar buttons and/or keyboard shortcuts.
To audition inactive playlists you can solo child tracks just like in Pro Tools.

If you like you can also manually hide inactive playlists (child tracks) using Track Manager. And the "Playlist: Set active" script can be still used. I.e. you can select a hidden playlist using Track Manager and run "Set active" script. The hidden playlist will be set as active (parent, visible) and the previous active playlist will be automatically hidden inside the folder.

Well, it is a bit difficult to describe the behavior in words. Just try the scripts. The behavior is quite simple (but effective) when you see it in action.


jnif

[timlloyd]

Have not tried these out properly yet, but they seem good

Actually, one comment - seems like a good idea to modify the "create new" script so that if you run it when a child track of an existing "playlist" is selected, it doesn't create a sub-playlist ... but instead selects the parent first and then creates a new child track. If that makes sense.

[jnif]

Originally Posted by timlloyd

Have not tried these out properly yet, but they seem good

Actually, one comment - seems like a good idea to modify the "create new" script so that if you run it when a child track of an existing "playlist" is selected, it doesn't create a sub-playlist ... but instead selects the parent first and then creates a new child track. If that makes sense.

Thanks for testing and comments.

Your improvement idea is good but it can be a bit tricky to make it work as you proposed. There is nothing in the selected track telling the script that the track is a playlist track. Thus, simple modification of the "create new" script would make it less flexible. For example, you would not be able to create playlists inside a sub-mix bus.
I already considered adding some tags (like "[PL]") to names of all playlist tracks. Using those tags in the scripts would make it possible to implement your proposal properly.


jnif

[timlloyd]

^ good point - liking these though - the familiar functionality is nice.

[deanc2000]

Are you guys making life too complicated? How about recording to a take, then exploding the take to new track?

Pro tools "playlists" functionality is much more rudimentary than Reaper's takes in my opinion.

D.

[jnif]

Originally Posted by deanc2000

Are you guys making life too complicated? How about recording to a take, then exploding the take to new track?

Pro tools "playlists" functionality is much more rudimentary than Reaper's takes in my opinion.

Playlists are not supposed to replace Reaper's take system. You can use Reaper's takes AND also use playlists at the same time. Playlists provide handy way to store different versions of your comps and edits. And you can compare those versions easily with playlists. Playlists also help in organizing your tracks. I.e. you can keep playlists hidden and still swap quickly to original/comped/edited/processed versions of your playlists.

jnif

[deesko]

isn't this what you're looking for?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJVCh...e_gdata_player

[jnif]

Originally Posted by deesko

isn't this what you're looking for?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJVCh...e_gdata_player

No. That video shows only how to work with takes and comping in Reaper.
The video does not show any way to save/show/hide/compare different versions of edited tracks.
Playlists can be useful when continuing editing/mixing the song from the point on where that video ended.

jnif

[deanc2000]

OK, how about you start with a recorded track. Make a copy of the track under it. Now edit the first track to your taste. Now you have an edited track and a copy of the original track. Choose implode to take. Now you can choose whichever version you want. This is similar to the playlist system right?

[jnif]

Originally Posted by deanc2000

OK, how about you start with a recorded track. Make a copy of the track under it. Now edit the first track to your taste. Now you have an edited track and a copy of the original track. Choose implode to take. Now you can choose whichever version you want. This is similar to the playlist system right?

You have to glue all your edited items and make them same length before you can implode to takes. This is a problem if you would like to keep "non-destructive" versions of all your edits. Playlists can be used to save different versions of your edited tracks without glueing. This can be useful if you like to change some edits later.

In general, playlists provide much more flexibility in editing compared to takes in Reaper. Editing takes inside multi-take items is very awkward in Reaper.

---------------------------

I updated the playlist scripts a bit. New version is in attachments.
Changes:
- Improved item selection behavior.
- Added 'Copy selection to active playlist' script. Similar to "up arrow" button in Pro Tools playlists.
- Added 'Duplicate playlist' custom macro.

jnif

[pianogineer]

Wow awesome! Glad this thread took off a little bit! I'd love to try your scripts but unfortunately am running into this bug:

http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=99649

:/

[timlloyd]

Does the following thread help you?

http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=83968

Hopefully Btw, registering as an Apple dev shouldn't cost anything at all afaik!

[pianogineer]

Originally Posted by timlloyd

Does the following thread help you?

http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=83968

Hopefully Btw, registering as an Apple dev shouldn't cost anything at all afaik!

Ahh... thanks... that helped indirectly. The specific fix listed didn't work, but by finagling around in the preferences I was able to get Reaper to use 2.6 and it now works.

Tried the scripts but am getting the following error for all 3:

"Script execution error

Traceback (most recent call last):
File "playlist_set_active.py", line 1
from reaper_python import *
^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax"

[timlloyd]

How about if you try Python 3.1 or 3.2? Also, try opening the scripts in textedit and delete this line "from reaper_python import *" then resave.

[jnif]

Here is another update to my collection of playlist scripts.
I added two more scripts to manage playlist visibility.

playlist_show_only_items_within_selection.py
This one hides all playlists that have no items within the current time selection. You can also use this script to hide all child tracks by running the script when time selection doe not exist.

playlist_show_all.py
This one unhides all playlists.

Those hide/show operations are targeted only to playlists (folders) that are currently selected i.e. have some selected tracks. You can select either a parent or a child track (active or inactive playlists) or both or all. Also managing visibility of multiple folders at the same time (select tracks from multiple folders) should work. Although I have not tested all possible corner cases.

jnif

[timlloyd]

^ is anyone good at making toolbar icons? Thanks for these jnif, they're great.

[pianogineer]

Originally Posted by timlloyd

How about if you try Python 3.1 or 3.2? Also, try opening the scripts in textedit and delete this line "from reaper_python import *" then resave.

Removing the first line didn't help... just pushed the syntax error to the next line.

I tried installing Phython 3.2.2, but the installer didn't install it in a way that I could make Reaper happy with using that version. I'll have to futz a bit more with it tonight.

Can't imagine why I'd be getting syntax errors though regardless of the version of Python...? I'm on Mac OS X Lion.

[jnif]

Here is again a new version of playlist scripts.
This time I added a new playlist_copy_comp_to_new.py script which creates new playlist tracks from active takes in selected items.
The script adds a '.Comp' extension automatically to the names of every new track.

This script might be useful even if you don't use playlists at all.

jnif

[pianogineer]

Originally Posted by pianogineer

Removing the first line didn't help... just pushed the syntax error to the next line.

I tried installing Phython 3.2.2, but the installer didn't install it in a way that I could make Reaper happy with using that version. I'll have to futz a bit more with it tonight.

Can't imagine why I'd be getting syntax errors though regardless of the version of Python...? I'm on Mac OS X Lion.

Ok... got it working. Found the libpython3.2.dylib file in /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.2/lib/libpython3.2.dylib. Pointed reaper to this directory and file and everything seems to work.

jnif: Gave a quick go to some of these scripts and they seem super useful. I'll have to give them a try tonight when I can really dig into them! Glad someone else who is more capable than me found this functionality useful and took the time to develop some scripts! Much appreciated

[pianogineer]

Oh my god... just spending a few minutes with it right now and I'm realizing the potential of this. This could combine the best of both worlds from REAPER's take system and PT's playlist system.

I could envision doing all of the initial tracking using takes, as well as REAPER's built in comping system. Copying that to a new playlist, and proceeding with all the detailed edits from there.

Wow man wow... this is AMAZING. Thank you so much.

[CaptainHook]

Very cool. This doesn't seem to work for multiple tracks at the same time though does it?
Say if you were recording drums and wanted to put new takes on playlists?

[Lawrence]

Can someone post a vid of this? I don't have python installed. Just curious what it looks like. A video or animated gif would be cool.

[jnif]

Originally Posted by CaptainHook

Very cool. This doesn't seem to work for multiple tracks at the same time though does it?
Say if you were recording drums and wanted to put new takes on playlists?

Here is a new version with better multi-track support.

Changes:
- New 'Playlist: Create new (multiple)' script (playlist_create_new_multi.py). A single track version of create new script is also included if someone likes to use it.
- New 'Playlist: Duplicate' script (playlist_duplicate.py). Replaces old duplicate playlist custom macro. The script can now duplicate multiple playlist tracks at once.
- Improved playlist creation logic.
If selected track is not muted then new/duplicate playlist will be created as a child.
If selected track is muted then new/duplicate playlist will be created as a sibling.
- Fixed bug in creating new/duplicate/comp playlists when last playlist (last track in folder) is selected.

Grouped playlists ala Pro Tools are still not possible with these scripts. Some kind of automatic track name numbering/tagging would be required in the scripts and that is a bit more difficult to implement. Playlist names in Pro Tools are auto-generated and protected, but we can't protect track names in Reaper. So, if track name numbering/tagging would be used in scripts then user would have to be very careful not to mess up those track names.

EDIT:
Correction to the above comment.
Playlist/track names are not protected in Pro Tools. So, you have to be carefull to keep the number extensions (.01, .02, .03, ...) when renaming playlists also in Pro Tools. It is possible to implement similar automatic playlist naming also in Reaper using Python scripts.
But implementing full-blown Pro Tools style grouped playlists in Python scripts is very difficult because Reaper does not natively support even basic track selection grouping.

jnif

[jnif]

Another update to playlist scripts.

Changes:
- New 'Playlist: Hide All' and 'Playlist: Hide All in MCP' scripts.
If you like to keep playlists always hidden in MCP you can add 'Hide All in MCP' after 'Show All' script in a custom macro.
- Better multi-track support in all scripts.
It might be helpful to use 'Xenakios/SWS: Select next/previous tracks' actions when working with multiple playlist folders. For example with multi-tracked drums with multiple takes in playlists.
- Fixed problems in MCP refreshing
- Fixed problems with unnecessary horizontal scrolling in arrange view.

jnif

[CaptainHook]

Thank you so much for your work on this jnif, i will try out the latest ones asap.

[pianogineer]

Yeah this is great! I have been trying them sporadically as they've been coming but can't wait to really dig into them.

To take it a step further (and I don't know enough about customizing REAPER to know how much work this would be), but what would it take to add some of this functionality to the actual track panel (ala Pro Tools)? Things like copy to active, new playlist, duplicate playlist, etc. are things that I use but not often enough that it would seem worthy to assign/memorize a key command. I think PT really got the Playlist system pretty much spot on, so curious how close this can be emulated in REAPER.

[timlloyd]

Originally Posted by pianogineer

To take it a step further (and I don't know enough about customizing REAPER to know how much work this would be), but what would it take to add some of this functionality to the actual track panel (ala Pro Tools)?

Unfortunately this can't be done (yet?). Adding "action buttons" to the tcp/mcp has been a feature request since walter (the reaper theming system) was introduced for v4. It might happen eventually.

[pianogineer]

Interesting. In that case... seems like making one of the toolbars contain each of the playlist functions would probably make the most sense.

I'll take a shot at some icons for this and post the results

[Lawrence]

Hey Tim. I can fire off some png icons pretty quickly in Corel Draw, if you give me an idea of what you want, and what sizes.

[timlloyd]

I stuck some together earlier today while trying them out, but need more now that jnif's updated again Just used some existing v4 default icons and tweaked them - that's what would be ideal imo, making them "v4 default-ish" design and size-wise. The "show selected" is an unchanged v4 default icon:



- create new
- set active
- copy to active
- copy comp to new
- show selection only
- show all

They're not perfect though imo - the group of three are all a little ambiguous - not denoting "set" and "copy" as well as possible; also the "show selection only" one could be more specific. Any ideas?

[pianogineer]

Originally Posted by timlloyd

I stuck some together earlier today while trying them out, but need more now that jnif's updated again Just used some existing v4 default icons and tweaked them - that's what would be ideal imo, making them "v4 default-ish". The "show selected" is an unchanged v4 default icon:



- create new
- set active
- copy to active
- copy comp to new
- show selection only
- show all

They're not perfect though imo - the group of three are all a little ambiguous - not denoting "set" and "copy" as well as possible; also the "show selection only" one could be more specific. Any ideas?

Amazing! I think they're great and would use them happily Any chance you could upload your png's?

[timlloyd]

Here you go

They're made to overlay on a blank toolbar image, so they'll work in other themes as well as the default even though the green might look out of place.