Old 06-24-2020, 01:54 AM   #1
Futur8me
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Default Apple goes ARM Mac.

Would just like to know from Justin if Reaper will be slowly ported over to ARM when the new ARM Macs start to roll out at the end of this year.., I think Apple said its a 2 year gradual change to full ARM.

Apple are sending out Mac minis with ARM A12Z cpus to developers now to help port their software over.

Or do I buy windows pc in the future to be able to use Reaper?.

.

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Old 06-24-2020, 07:46 AM   #2
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We already support aarch64 on linux, so porting to mac/ARM should be easy (assuming Apple doesn't do anything stupid!). We're probably going to wait until the hardware is available to end-users before porting it, but it won't be long after that I imagine.
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Old 06-24-2020, 08:06 AM   #3
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We already support aarch64 on linux, so porting to mac/ARM should be easy (assuming Apple doesn't do anything stupid!). We're probably going to wait until the hardware is available to end-users before porting it, but it won't be long after that I imagine.

Thank you very much for the reply, this makes me feel a lot better!, I much prefer using macOS.., it is very exciting to see these changes with apples own silicon cpu for Macs coming soon)).

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Old 06-24-2020, 08:19 AM   #4
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There is still support for intel based macs for a while apparently. They can't just abandon their entire existing user base. There are also new intel based macs still coming out.
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Old 06-24-2020, 08:38 AM   #5
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Yes.., its going to be very interesting to see what Apple brings out towards the end of this year.., will it be iMac Pro that has only the new intel cpus?.., or Mac Pro..?, will Apple bring out a brand new ARM Mac mini?.., will Apples own ARM cpu be a A14Z or 16X or Y..??, haha.

Maybe all the iMacs product line will get a total new redesign and a choice of ARM???.

Fanless iMac or Mac mini with an ARM cpu that has 12 cores or 20 cores???.


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Old 06-24-2020, 09:18 AM   #6
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All of your plug-in developers will need to do the transition too, won't they?
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Old 06-24-2020, 09:37 AM   #7
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What do you mean by "your".

Everyone that wants to be on the new ARM Macs will have to eventually port their software, and there are already quite a lot of plugins available for iOS, you can use iOS plugins/software now with macOS.

macOS and iOS are now pretty much the same thing.

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Old 06-24-2020, 09:43 AM   #8
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Additionally there will be some sort of virtualization platfrom for existing software. Maybe this can be utilized for plugins too, at least for some time. It's a question of performance if this vitualization of plugins is fast/good enough for low latency audio.
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Old 06-24-2020, 11:34 AM   #9
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A few thoughts:
  • Plug-ins: It's unclear whether there will be support for in-process emulation of x86 code. Since they say that the translation can happen at install-time, it's possible that it will generate ARM binaries of plug-ins that can be loaded by ARM-native processes. Though even if that does happen, things with heavily-engineered copy protection will probably not function.

  • Plug-ins (part 2): it will hopefully be possible to have reaper_arm include reaper_host_x86_64 to load legacy plug-ins (I suppose if this happens we'll have to get around to adding VST3 bridging support).

  • While the ARM macs will probably be very good in terms of both performance and performance/watt, I wouldn't expect huge gains for most things (e.g. "20 cores fanless" might be a stretch).
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Old 06-24-2020, 11:53 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin View Post
A few thoughts:
  • Plug-ins: It's unclear whether there will be support for in-process emulation of x86 code. Since they say that the translation can happen at install-time, it's possible that it will generate ARM binaries of plug-ins that can be loaded by ARM-native processes. Though even if that does happen, things with heavily-engineered copy protection will probably not function.

  • Plug-ins (part 2): it will hopefully be possible to have reaper_arm include reaper_host_x86_64 to load legacy plug-ins (I suppose if this happens we'll have to get around to adding VST3 bridging support).

  • While the ARM macs will probably be very good in terms of both performance and performance/watt, I wouldn't expect huge gains for most things (e.g. "20 cores fanless" might be a stretch).
Especially the first part is something i'm scared about. Developers would have to make software translatable. That's an interesting aspect. Thanks for that point of view. Usually developers could try to 'recompile' their VST binaries on the new platform using XCode like Apple said they did (i'm not even sure about that..) as long as there aren't any dependencies. For Reaper itself it could be fairly easy to port if Apple does it's job right. It's already running on aarch64.


To point 3: Most applications won't need that much power anyway. A lot of software isn't even utilizing mutlicores/threads very well. There are more software-optimizations/code-improvements to be done before complaining about CPU power. For sure audio is in extensive use of multiprocessing but i'm not sure how much of an impact that will have on 'day to day' projects. There are other aspects which might be more of a bottleneck than CPU power these days. I personally didn't get to the limits of CPU power yet. Depends on the genre i'm working on. Mostly audio only and priniting virtual instruments as instrument tracks helps maybe...
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Old 07-05-2020, 10:51 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Futur8me View Post
Or do I buy windows pc in the future to be able to use Reaper?.
if Apple succeeds with ARM platform, Microsoft will inevitably have to push Windows 10 for ARM forward too...
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Old 07-05-2020, 12:09 PM   #12
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Windows for ARM has been around for a while.

It seems Apple's emulator on the dev ARM Mini's is already outperforming Win 10 native on Surface devices. At least, that could stir up things a bit.

Let's hope the new ARM laptops will have a decent keyboard
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