Old 02-13-2016, 04:30 PM   #161
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Originally Posted by peter5992 View Post
Quick question: is it possible to display multiple staves at once, or is the notation display limited to one single track?
multiple with different clef support etc (selection is very similar to the midi piano roll "track list" method)
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Old 02-13-2016, 04:37 PM   #162
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Quick question: is it possible to display multiple staves at once, or is the notation display limited to one single track?
In the MIDI editor, go into the Contents menu and select Track List. Then click the eye to see the tracks (and/or items) you want to view at once.
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Old 02-13-2016, 05:02 PM   #163
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pre2 bug, this is no valid measure and this are not overlapping notes. I think it has to do with the grid logic. Quarter notes are displayed as 1/4 but played as 1/8 as you change the grid
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Old 02-13-2016, 05:12 PM   #164
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also to get rid of the problems that are resulting of overlapping notes, in notation you need multiple voices. One clef can contain two or more (in other notation progs usually 4) voices that are selectable via menu. That's the only valid posibillity to handle "overlapping" notes.
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Old 02-13-2016, 06:45 PM   #165
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Nice work Schwa.

It doesn't appear that the Move Edit Cursor Left/Right actions are working in notation mode.

A midi item can't be extended or looped beyond the first line when in page view (e.g. you can't grab the end and drag it down the page to extend across multiple rows). You have to zoom out and do it on 1 line.

If a midi item is set to Loop Item Source, there isn't a way to extend the midi item in Notation like you can in the piano roll which offers both extension and looping cursors:


View > Piano Roll Timebase seems like a strange place to put the Page View option. The menu can be customized but for new users I think it'd be better off in the main View page or in a Notation sub-folder.
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Old 02-13-2016, 07:36 PM   #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snooks View Post
In the MIDI editor, go into the Contents menu and select Track List. Then click the eye to see the tracks (and/or items) you want to view at once.
Oh wow -- awesome!!

Few follow up questions:

1. All of the instruments in my short orchestral score have both a treble and a bass clef -- that is silly of course, how do I remove the treble / bass clef?

2. Is there a way to enter notes manually, like, with a mouse, or numeric keyboard?

Sorry, I'm really used to Sibelius, this is new territory for me.

Thanks!
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Old 02-13-2016, 08:02 PM   #167
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1. Right click on clef to change it/them.

2. Just click and drag when cursor is a pencil (which shows you can draw a note in that place). Or Ctrl+Alt+Shift click to draw note the length the grid is set to.

There are a bunch of key commands to insert notes of varying lengths if you look at the action list in the MIDI editor (press ? (if you're unfamiliar with the quick way to show it)). Or there are actions assignable to KCs or toolbars to change grid division to work with #1 above or the insert note KC (Ctrl+Num pad 5). Num pad 8 and 2 or Ctrl Up or Down to change pitch.
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Old 02-13-2016, 09:50 PM   #168
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There is already a preference for setting the clef for a particular note (for example, to force middle C to notate on the bass clef when using treble+bass). We can extend this preference to allow you to set, in your example, your stray note to treble clef, which will hide it from the bass clef-only view.
I don't understand how this will hide a keyswitch? Is there some system to hide notes that are instrument keyswitches?

There needs to be a filter for these notes. You can't use the regular (main MIDI) filter, because the track still needs to send them to the VSTi to switch the patch :/

Also small FRs: More Clefs ~ Bass-8, and even Treble++8 (Bravo for including the C clefs 'Alto' and 'Tenor'... very professional )

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# Notation: add option to hide notes that are more than two ledger lines away from the staff
OK just found the v5.20pre2 changelog Good stuff.

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Old 02-13-2016, 09:58 PM   #169
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pre2 bug
Should be fixed in pre2a, thanks.
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Old 02-13-2016, 11:35 PM   #170
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yes its working again, thanks.

another layout mistake:
cresc. dim. and all articulations like mf ff fff must be UNDER the score not over, would this be possible?
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Old 02-14-2016, 01:00 AM   #171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by planetnine View Post
v5.20pre2 - February 13 2016


# Notation: add option to hide notes that are more than two ledger lines away from the staff
Can't find this - help please?
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Old 02-14-2016, 01:02 AM   #172
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Originally Posted by peter5992 View Post
2. Is there a way to enter notes manually, like, with a mouse, or numeric keyboard?
Double-click or Insert key. Most mouse tricks and keystrokes are (or will be) same as piano roll.
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Old 02-14-2016, 02:14 AM   #173
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Quote:
Originally Posted by planetnine View Post
v5.20pre2 - February 13 2016


# Notation: add option to hide notes that are more than two ledger lines away from the staff
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Originally Posted by Shippo View Post
Can't find this - help please?
Nevermind - found in the Action list, I wasn't looking in the Midi Editor section.

This works OK, but what if we want to hide the keyswitches but still show notes on 3 or more ledger lines?
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Old 02-14-2016, 03:44 AM   #174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peter5992 View Post
Oh wow -- awesome!!

Few follow up questions:

1. All of the instruments in my short orchestral score have both a treble and a bass clef -- that is silly of course, how do I remove the treble / bass clef?

2. Is there a way to enter notes manually, like, with a mouse, or numeric keyboard?

Sorry, I'm really used to Sibelius, this is new territory for me.

Thanks!
I'm a fan of Sibelius' speedy input method too and I've requested some actions that will allow us to enter notes of a specific pitch, hopefully they'll be implemented and that will bring us closer to an input system that is similar to most score writers - I'm also creating a custom action set for us Sibelius users which I'll share once there are enough actions to make it worthwhile
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Old 02-14-2016, 03:55 AM   #175
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MIDI editor/notation view.

I think we should have an option to have the notation editor being the default view, or the view for a track with a newly recorded MIDI item if the existing view is notation. After recording all of the Track View eyeballs should also stay on, perhaps if more than one/one of one was on before.

I have the MIDI editor docked at the moment and it's great being able to follow along whilst recording. At the moment when I press stop the piano roll is opened up for the new item and the eyeballs are all switched off for the existing view. The new item should just be added to the view.


Track View

When clicking on a track/item, the notation view should scroll down to the track if it's out of view. Just a vertical scroll if it's a track that's clicked. On a very relevant, related note, at the moment in the MIDI editor PRV, whilst viewing multiple tracks, when clicking on an track that only contains items that are out of view, it scrolls to the closest item and zooms in. I can understand if it's an item that's clicked, but not a track (and the zoom should be optional because clicking a track with a 1 bar item when you're looking at 8 of 32 bars you want to jump back to is not ideal).
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Old 02-14-2016, 04:45 AM   #176
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Quote:
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But when I set tempo to 110 bpm at the beginning of project, then at bar 19 rests are wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
Great catch, thanks. Fixed for the next build.
The bug related to rests on bar 19 is now fixed in 5.20pre2a but there is a new bug related to project tempo:


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Old 02-14-2016, 05:19 AM   #177
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Default Note value display

When you have two notes that overlap like this (16th and 8th) I suggest that the 16th note is written as 8th note rather then 16th, would look simpler.

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Old 02-14-2016, 06:13 AM   #178
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Bug:

Cannot insert notes to the last bar of item when item end is not snapped to the end of bar. This happens easily when recording MIDI in notation view because when recording is stopped the item end is not quantized to full bars.


Another bug:
Quarter note is not shown in tempo marking. Only "=120" is shown.
(Windows 7 64bit, Reaper 5.20pre2a x86)

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Old 02-14-2016, 06:25 AM   #179
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Hey Schwa, great work so far!

I realise that this is all very WIP but if you're going to have a drum notation mode, it needs way more than just X note heads. Drum notation is moderately standardised but there can be a lot of variation since the staff might represent all manner of percussive things that can be included in a drum set.

Since there is no definitive (ie. universally accepted and not deviated from) standard, I think the only sane way to implement a drum/percussion mode is to allow the user to set up a note-number to note-style mapping, possibly even to specify which note-numbers belong on which lines of the staff. IIRC that's what MuseScore does (haven't looked for a while)

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Old 02-14-2016, 06:57 AM   #180
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Quote:
When you have two notes that overlap like this (16th and 8th) I suggest that the 16th note is written as 8th note rather then 16th, would look simpler.
Well, please not, two voices with different note lenghts see post #164
Because how can you as a score reading musician know what rythm to play when a 1/16 becomes a 1/8 in the printed score?

When the music what I read is not what I hear the whole thing is useless...
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Old 02-14-2016, 07:02 AM   #181
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Well, please not, two voices with different note lenghts see post #164
Because how can you as a score reading musician know what rythm to play when a 1/16 becomes a 1/8 in the printed score?
When the music what I read is not what I hear the whole thing is useless...
I have to disagree with you here, multiple voices is important I agree, but this particular example was just a one voice melody with a playing interpretation, and from using other editors, this is a very neat solution as this wasn't intended to be two voices.
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Old 02-14-2016, 07:05 AM   #182
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I have to disagree with you here, multiple voices is important I agree, but this particular example was just a one voice melody with a playing interpretation, and from using other editors, this is a very neat solution as this wasn't intended to be two voices.
yes but how would you play it when you see the score, as a 1/16 note or as a 1/8?
In a full orchestra score with multiple instruments its impossible then to find out wich voice is playing this damn 16th notes when there are none visible
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Old 02-14-2016, 07:14 AM   #183
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Originally Posted by reddiesel41264 View Post
I'm a fan of Sibelius' speedy input method too and I've requested some actions that will allow us to enter notes of a specific pitch, hopefully they'll be implemented and that will bring us closer to an input system that is similar to most score writers - I'm also creating a custom action set for us Sibelius users which I'll share once there are enough actions to make it worthwhile

There are some existing actions that will help with this. Search for actions with "insert note:", "step input:", "cursor: advance", and "active position". If there are additional actions that would help, let us know.

The "active position" actions are called "move cursor up/down" when they appear in menus. These refer to the triangle at the far right of the staff (or the highlighted pitch in the piano roll view), which is the pitch that the various insert-note actions target. This cursor can also be moved with the mouse or mousewheel in the notation editor. I think we will change the descriptions throughout to "pitch cursor" to make the actions easier to find.
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Old 02-14-2016, 07:19 AM   #184
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Originally Posted by jnif View Post
Quarter note is not shown in tempo marking. Only "=120" is shown.
(Windows 7 64bit, Reaper 5.20pre2a x86)
This is a font problem. It's very likely that you have an older version of the Bravura notation font installed, and REAPER is using that font instead of the packaged one (which is not supposed to happen). If you uninstall Bravura on your system, that should fix the metronome markings. (I happen to recall that the metronome-sized glyphs were only just added in the most recent font update, so I'm certain you have an older font displayed.)
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Old 02-14-2016, 07:20 AM   #185
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yes but how would you play it when you see the score, as a 1/16 note or as a 1/8?
In a full orchestra score with multiple instruments its impossible then to find out wich voice is playing this damn 16th notes when there are none visible
But in full orchestra with multiple voices you have different stems and like I said my exemple is more of a playing error anyway, but for example in Sibelius this is automatically corrected to the most logical solution, which was somewhat the reason of my initial post so .... I think we need a view quantise then independent from the midi editor's quantise

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Old 02-14-2016, 07:43 AM   #186
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Originally Posted by hve View Post
But in full orchestra with multiple voices you have different stems and like I said my exemple is more of a playing error anyway, but for example in Sibelius this is automatically corrected to the most logical solution, which was somewhat the reason of my initial post so .... I think we need a view quantise then independent from the midi editor's quantise
agreed
the notation view can be as simple as possible as long as it respects the rules of score notation, alot like math
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Old 02-14-2016, 08:01 AM   #187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
There are some existing actions that will help with this. Search for actions with "insert note:", "step input:", "cursor: advance", and "active position". If there are additional actions that would help, let us know.

The "active position" actions are called "move cursor up/down" when they appear in menus. These refer to the triangle at the far right of the staff (or the highlighted pitch in the piano roll view), which is the pitch that the various insert-note actions target. This cursor can also be moved with the mouse or mousewheel in the notation editor. I think we will change the descriptions throughout to "pitch cursor" to make the actions easier to find.
Thanks, that active position cursor is cool, I hadn't seen that. I agree that "pitch cursor" would be a more logical name.

There is still a faster workflow to be achieved with just a few additional actions I think. Let me illustrate a simple example from Sibelius, which of all the score writers I've tried (and that's pretty much all) has the fastest note entry via computer keyboard:

So if I want to enter a G quarter note, I first press a key to select quarter note duration then I hit G on my computer keyboard. Hitting G not only selects the pitch but also inserts the note onto the staff. So in two key press I get a note of the correct duration and pitch.

It would be good in Reaper if we could have actions to set the active position/pitch cursor to a specific pitch - so pressing G sets the cursor to the nearest G - and an action to set the length of the next note that will be entered. With these two actions (combined with the existing actions) I could create a custom action to provide the two key input method.
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Old 02-14-2016, 08:12 AM   #188
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Default Rec in notation view

Hi Schwa,

is there a way to get back the default actions (shortcuts) for midi editor ? Also is it currently possible to record in the midi and notation editor or is this not yet implemented ?

thanks!

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Old 02-14-2016, 09:37 AM   #189
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Undo for changing clef is not working.

Key-signature: Is there planned support for key-signature?
Much score-related work and readability is connected with having it in right key.
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Old 02-14-2016, 10:18 AM   #190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
There are some existing actions that will help with this. Search for actions with "insert note:", "step input:", "cursor: advance", and "active position". If there are additional actions that would help, let us know.
To improve and speed up note input, I would like to see some improvements in step recording.
Here is an old FR (inspired by Pro Tools), which is still mostly valid:
Step recording improvements
http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=3658

Fixing this undo bug is important to improve usability of step recording:
Undo does not work in MIDI step recording
http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=3655


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Old 02-14-2016, 10:30 AM   #191
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Isn´t key signature already implemented? See the item "Key" at the lower part of the Notation Editor.
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Old 02-14-2016, 10:34 AM   #192
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Also, improve general feel of step recording, the step recorded notes should appear in MIDI editor immediately after note-on, not after note-off.

Step input window from PT:

Same window while holding down keys in MIDI keyboard

See how the "Undo step" and "Next Step" buttons change while holding down MIDI keys.
The "<none>" fields are MIDI learn field for the above buttons.
More details here:
https://www.avid.com/static/resource...renceGuide.pdf

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Old 02-14-2016, 11:50 AM   #193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snooks View Post
Phrases/slurs:

1. They are lost when closing and re-opening the editor.
2. They clash with beaming (can we have handles on beams and switch stem direction?)
I can confirm both of these.
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Old 02-14-2016, 11:53 AM   #194
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jnif View Post
Also, improve general feel of step recording, the step recorded notes should appear in MIDI editor immediately after note-on, not after note-off.
jnif

I agree this kind of step editor would be handy!
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Old 02-14-2016, 12:00 PM   #195
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Feature requests:

1. Allow text events and dynamics to be placed above or below staff (or in the middle in the case of the grand staff).

2. All attached symbols (accent, staccato, etc.) should be placed in a space in the staff or above/below the staff. These marks should not clash with staff lines.

3. Increase the available attached symbols (bow direction comes to mind immediately, but there are several that can/should be available)... or better yet, allow users to create their own palette of articulations since music fonts tend to include a huge variety).

4. Allow multiple articulations to be added to a note (staccato and accent for example)
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Old 02-14-2016, 12:04 PM   #196
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Pcartwright, a bug I reported has not yet been added to the list:

When colour notes by pitch is selected, the selection bars are not being coloured to reflect that. Instead they're uniformly green
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Old 02-14-2016, 12:04 PM   #197
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Another feature request:

Allow cross staff beaming on grand staff
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Old 02-14-2016, 12:07 PM   #198
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juca View Post
Isn´t key signature already implemented? See the item "Key" at the lower part of the Notation Editor.
Greetings.
Yes, of course. My bad.

Key-signature:
- When having multiple tracks, key-changes are per track (or item?)
Normally all tracks should display with same key
(if not transposing instruments, but that's another story)
- There should be a key-setting in Project settings
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Old 02-14-2016, 12:10 PM   #199
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Accidentals:
- Shouldn't 1/4 note staccato be equal to 1/8midi + 1/8midi rest?
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Old 02-14-2016, 12:10 PM   #200
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Quote:
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- There should be a key-setting in Project settings
The key signature might change at different parts of the project.
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