Old 12-16-2019, 05:00 AM   #561
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lerian View Post
Have no fear, deep space separators will be here (hopefully on time for Christmas)

https://imgur.com/a/OUABuCE

Not that complicated to make either. Just make a subfolder in the theme folder (called "mixer-deep-space-separator" below) put there 2 images named tcp_bg.png and mcp_bg.png and then at the end of your rtconfig, before dummy layouts add a layout:

Code:
Layout "▮ Deep Space Separator" "mixer-deep-space-separator" 
	clear mcp.*
	set mcp.size [50 1]
	clear tcp.*
	set tcp.size [1 50]
EndLayout
Done
This is beautyful
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Old 12-16-2019, 08:02 AM   #562
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lerian View Post
Have no fear, deep space separators will be here (hopefully on time for Christmas)

https://imgur.com/a/OUABuCE

Not that complicated to make either. Just make a subfolder in the theme folder (called "mixer-deep-space-separator" below) put there 2 images named tcp_bg.png and mcp_bg.png and then at the end of your rtconfig, before dummy layouts add a layout:

Code:
Layout "▮ Deep Space Separator" "mixer-deep-space-separator" 
	clear mcp.*
	set mcp.size [50 1]
	clear tcp.*
	set tcp.size [1 50]
EndLayout
Done
This theme looks incredible. Even though it's not yet released, congrats on creating the best Reaper theme!
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Old 12-16-2019, 08:44 AM   #563
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I think the origin of many people's gripes are based on gamma more than just "too dark". Below is the cheapest monitor I'm using (but calibrated) next to an IPad, 2.2 gamma versus 1.8.:





White Tie is going to do what he wants regardless of us. And also, that unless Justin chimes in what really should be going on is that one hopes themers go at it as they have in the past.

I think the only thing I believe is amiss is that the tweakability by the user, that was taken away should be given back in the form of a control panel like in WT's theme. I would have expected theming to be made more "peasant friendly" which would negate all of this.

I still use Commala Default 2016 and don't really have any complaints, aside from the fact it just occurs to me I've been using the same theme for over 3 years now (?!)

Things like contrast and color are such a subjective thing that probably the only way of calming the Rabid Horde is to include the ability for the user to change these aspects of the basic elements of the UI in Reaper. I'm not sure why the theming page was buried/taken away/limited, it doesn't seem to have helped anything?

User selectable element color and contrast. Less Venn diagram vexation.

$.10
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Old 12-16-2019, 09:16 AM   #564
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Originally Posted by chip mcdonald View Post

I think the only thing I believe is amiss is that the tweakability by the user, that was taken away should be given back in the form of a control panel like in WT's theme.
What was "taken away"?

Last edited by Kenny Gioia; 12-16-2019 at 11:13 AM.
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Old 12-16-2019, 09:16 AM   #565
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Again, I am trying to respectfully stay out of this thread so you can all have a place to air your opinions. Please do not draw me into it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chip mcdonald View Post
White Tie is going to do what he wants regardless of us.
This idea that I'm doing what I want is a scurrilous lie. I am at peace with the fact that some people are going to incorrectly think this and there's nothing I can do about that, but it seems to me that the only reason to spread this is either because you believe it, or because of an attitude of "WT didn't do what I wanted, so I'm going to stop other people from even trying". Either way, it cannot achieve anything other than to do harm to Reaper, please stop.
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Old 12-16-2019, 09:24 AM   #566
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Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia View Post
What was "taken away"?
The theme settings under preferences.
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Old 12-16-2019, 09:31 AM   #567
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chip mcdonald View Post
The theme settings under preferences.
You mean this:

https://ibb.co/VS4fPhW
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Old 12-16-2019, 09:49 AM   #568
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The tweaker window is still there, Chip! Nothing was removed. You still can use that all you want. I use the old Theme Tweaker more than I use the Theme Adjuster script, tbh. They really do different things. I'm not sure how much overlap there is between the two, if any. The Theme Adjuster gives a way to do some other modifications like adjusting what buttons show on the MCP/TCP, basic track coloring, and stuff.

You still use the Theme Tweaker as you would before. Ex., when I first switched to Reaper 6, I didn't like the dark background of the arrange view and the MIDI editor.. guess what script changed that. If you guessed Theme Adjuster.. you're wrong Theme tweaker is the correct answer.

In addition to the older, existing Theme Tweaker, another tool was added that does a little bit more.
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Old 12-16-2019, 10:12 AM   #569
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Quote:
Originally Posted by White Tie View Post
Again, I am trying to respectfully stay out of this thread so you can all have a place to air your opinions. Please do not draw me into it.


This idea that I'm doing what I want is a scurrilous lie. I am at peace with the fact that some people are going to incorrectly think this and there's nothing I can do about that, but it seems to me that the only reason to spread this is either because you believe it, or because of an attitude of "WT didn't do what I wanted, so I'm going to stop other people from even trying". Either way, it cannot achieve anything other than to do harm to Reaper, please stop.
Hmm. wow, ok.

Please stop what? In 14 pages I've said I don't like the acqua tint. I didn't ask you to change it. I pointed out that a gamma difference may explain why some people are saying it's too dark/difficult to see.

Again, not asking you to change anything.

I wrote on a different thread I liked one of your alternate themes. I *did* say I hope you develop it.


You make it very clear you don't want to hear people say anything about your theme that is freely given. You make remarks about it, do you not? You make grandiose statements about what can and cannot be discussed in your threads. Just because you choose to be congenial when it suits you doesn't mean you get a carte blanche pass to behave like a primadonna otherwise.

I appreciate your aesthetic sense, effort and execution. It does not functionally align with my own at the moment. Sorry.
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Old 12-16-2019, 10:15 AM   #570
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chip mcdonald View Post
You make it very clear you don't want to hear people say anything about your theme that is freely given.
Again, this. Please stop this. I am trying to stay out of this thread so exactly the opposite of this can happen. Conjecturing falsehoods about me is obviously not something I'm going to be okay with.
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Old 12-16-2019, 10:20 AM   #571
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Originally Posted by nait View Post
The tweaker window is still there, Chip!
I understand that. You and Kenny are apparently missing my point.

There is presently 14 pages to this thread. *IMO* from what I see mainly involving luminance and contrast issues.

While White Tie has chosen to take offense, ironically what I'm suggesting is that there is nothing inherently wrong about his theme that couldn't be remedied by being able to adjust the brightness and contrast of UI elements.

- it is more unwieldy now to get at the theme adjustments when they're not under "preferences"

- to newer users that DON'T know how to find it, it effectively isn't there. Why isn't it under "preferences" since it is indeed a preference?

- my point is that if the theme preferences where still... under the preferences menu, AND it had the functionality of being able to change the brightness and contrast of elements...


..... then maybe there wouldn't be so much gravitas surrounding "it's too dark" "I can't see it" "it's illegible" etc..



That's all.
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Old 12-16-2019, 10:22 AM   #572
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Quote:
Originally Posted by White Tie View Post
Again, this. Please stop this. I am trying to stay out of this thread

... then stop posting....?

WTF.
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Old 12-16-2019, 10:24 AM   #573
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chip mcdonald View Post
While White Tie has chosen to take offense
I'm not sure why you can't grasp this:

This theme is bad : FINE.

WT is bad at his Job : FINE.

WT is a bad person : NOT FINE
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Old 12-16-2019, 10:25 AM   #574
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia View Post
You mean this:

https://ibb.co/VS4fPhW
I mean it is obviously no longer under "preferences" - despite being a preference, and a new user is not going to automatically know that is where it is. Or that it even exists.

Not only that, but *I* don't want to have to jump through that hoop, either.

... and my point was simply "if we could adjust brightness and contrast of elements a lot of complaints could be easily addressed by users".
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Old 12-16-2019, 10:30 AM   #575
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I'd like to suggest that since this thread has primarily focused on the theme's contrast/brightness, which WT has shown no interest in revisiting, there's really not much point in continuing the discussion.
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Old 12-16-2019, 10:31 AM   #576
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chip mcdonald View Post
I understand that. You and Kenny are apparently missing my point.

- it is more unwieldy now to get at the theme adjustments when they're not under "preferences"

- to newer users that DON'T know how to find it, it effectively isn't there. Why isn't it under "preferences" since it is indeed a preference?

- my point is that if the theme preferences where still... under the preferences menu, AND it had the functionality of being able to change the brightness and contrast of elements...

..... then maybe there wouldn't be so much gravitas surrounding "it's too dark" "I can't see it" "it's illegible" etc..

That's all.
We missed your point because you said:

Quote:
Originally Posted by chip mcdonald View Post

I think the only thing I believe is amiss is that the tweakability by the user, that was taken away should be given back
Cleary, it wasn't taken away. It was moved. Not sure why, but I don't consider an "action" to be hidden any more than a "preference".

Quote:
Not only that, but *I* don't want to have to jump through that hoop, either.
Not sure why you consider it a "hoop". Preferences need to be chosen by first going to the preference window and finding the section you want to work in. An "action" can be in any menu or have a keystroke assigned to it. I would argue that all preferences should have actions assigned to them because it's quicker.

Is it harder to find for new users? Probably. But one could also argue that new users shouldn't be adjusting the theme right away either.
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Old 12-16-2019, 10:31 AM   #577
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Originally Posted by White Tie View Post
I'm not sure why you can't grasp this:

This theme is bad : FINE.

WT is bad at his Job : FINE.

WT is a bad person : NOT FINE

You're right, I'm sorry WT, I must have picked up the crazy pills bottle this morning instead of my multivitamin.
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Old 12-16-2019, 10:36 AM   #578
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Originally Posted by chip mcdonald View Post
The theme settings under preferences.
When was it in preferences? Version 4? It hasn't been there for a long time, and instead been in the actions list. This isn't a new change as of V6.
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Old 12-16-2019, 10:37 AM   #579
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Originally Posted by JamesPeters View Post
When was it in preferences? Version 4? It hasn't been there for a long time, and instead been in the actions list. This isn't a new change as of V6.
Yeah. I think that changed in version 5.
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Old 12-16-2019, 10:39 AM   #580
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Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia View Post
Yeah. I think that changed in version 5.
It became an action instead of preference in V5 IIRC so yea, it isn't missing between 5/6.
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Old 12-16-2019, 10:40 AM   #581
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Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia View Post
We missed your point because you said:



Cleary, it wasn't taken away. It was moved. Not sure why, but I don't consider an "action" to be hidden any more than a "preference".
Ok... I'm not sure what is going on with you and WT relative to me today, but you apparently want to argue semantics?

Theme tweaking is a subjective preference of the user.

It used to be under the "preferences" menu.

For some reason it was removed, and hidden away.

Now, I'm not Noam Chomsky, but I choose to refer to the premise that since it was made more difficult for the user to find/access/be aware of, it was

"taken away".


Not that it has any bearing on my point that BRIGHTNESS AND CONTRAST tweaking by the user would alleviate most of these issues people are complaining about.

...and that the place to find it would be (in my humble, peasant opinion) under "preferences".
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Old 12-16-2019, 10:41 AM   #582
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I understand Chip, but remember that it was moved over 4 1/2 years ago.

It confused me at first too.
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Old 12-16-2019, 10:43 AM   #583
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When was it in preferences? Version 4? It hasn't been there for a long time, and instead been in the actions list. This isn't a new change as of V6.
I didn't say it was a new change.

The context is users complaining about contrast and brightness issues.

The typical user would be expected to try to change that under "preferences".

"actions list" is not the most obvious place to find how to change how a program looks.
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Old 12-16-2019, 10:47 AM   #584
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It was the second place I looked, though. The "paradigm" of Reaper's actions list, once you realize it, makes it a "secondary preferences" area in a sense. I'm not saying that's particularly intuitive, and I don't know why the theme tweaker was removed from preferences.

But anyway: consider the context of how you said this. You did first say it was "taken away", then you said "it is more unwieldy now to get at the theme adjustments when they're not under preferences". This makes people infer you're upset about a recent change with V6, and that's why this conversation is going in this direction.
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Old 12-16-2019, 10:49 AM   #585
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Originally Posted by JamesPeters View Post
I understand Chip, but remember that it was moved over 4 1/2 years ago.

It confused me at first too.

My point isn't about where it is but about allowing the user to adjust BRIGHTNESS AND CONTRAST of UI elements. If they could then many of these complaints could be addressed subjectively by the user.
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Old 12-16-2019, 10:51 AM   #586
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Originally Posted by chip mcdonald View Post
Ok... I'm not sure what is going on with you and WT relative to me today, but you apparently want to argue semantics?
No. Your wording confused me so I asked for clarification. When you clarified, you made it sound like I should have known what you meant. But I didn't. So I told you why I didn't. That is all.


Quote:
Originally Posted by chip mcdonald View Post

Theme tweaking is a subjective preference of the user.

It used to be under the "preferences" menu.

For some reason it was removed, and hidden away.

Now, I'm not Noam Chomsky, but I choose to refer to the premise that since it was made more difficult for the user to find/access/be aware of, it was

"taken away".
I would simply argue that that is your opinion. I've never known for the dev team to move something in order to "hide" it.

Theme tweaking is a pretty deep dive into editing the program. I would argue that it never belonged in the preferences in it's current state.

IOW - A few basic functions could be preferences. But you can basically design a theme with this action. It's next level complicated and isn't for every user IMHO.
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Old 12-16-2019, 10:54 AM   #587
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesPeters View Post
But anyway: consider the context of how you said this. You did first say it was "taken away", then you said "it is more unwieldy now to get at the theme adjustments when they're not under preferences". This makes people infer you're upset about a recent change with V6, and that's why this conversation is going in this direction.

The context is "Reaper V6 Default Theme Likes/Dislikes, and my post spoke of BRIGHTNESS AND CONTRAST relative to gamma differences, where I even POSTED A PICTURE.
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Old 12-16-2019, 10:56 AM   #588
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Originally Posted by chip mcdonald View Post
My point isn't about where it is but about allowing the user to adjust BRIGHTNESS AND CONTRAST of UI elements. If they could then many of these complaints could be addressed subjectively by the user.
If it was one or two sliders then I would agree. Put THAT in the preferences.

But it's NOT. It's the ability to change everything. And when you give a new user the ability to mess things up so completely without an easy way to fix it, you open up a huge can of worms.
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Old 12-16-2019, 11:02 AM   #589
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chip mcdonald View Post
The context is "Reaper V6 Default Theme Likes/Dislikes, and my post spoke of BRIGHTNESS AND CONTRAST relative to gamma differences, where I even POSTED A PICTURE.
I'm just pointing out why the conversation went in this direction. It came from something you said, whether intended or not.

Anyway I'm not arguing against the contrast/gamma stuff. I've adjusted stuff in the theme tweaker for my own eyes.
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Old 12-16-2019, 11:06 AM   #590
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Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia View Post
No. Your wording confused me so I asked for clarification. When you clarified, you made it sound like I should have known what you meant. But I didn't. So I told you why I didn't. That is all.
My ORIGINATING post said:

"Things like contrast and color are such a subjective thing that probably the only way of calming the Rabid Horde is to include the ability for the user to change these aspects of the basic elements of the UI in Reaper. I'm not sure why the theming page was buried/taken away/limited, it doesn't seem to have helped anything?

User selectable element color and contrast. Less Venn diagram vexation.

$.10 "

"User selectable element color and contrast", "include the ability for the user to change these aspects". That's not clear?

"why the theming page was buried/taken away/limited": I KNOW you know it's under "actions" now, and that it's NOT under "preferences". How can you not comprehend I'm referencing exactly what I wrote, AND


.... why is this being turned into the point of what I wrote?

Quote:
ould simply argue that that is your opinion. I've never known for the dev team to move something in order to "hide" it.
IIRC it had to do with people ending up wrecking themes and getting confused, which makes sense from that standpoint. I would think that would be the obvious reason. I could be wrong. I don't know. I don't see a need to argue about it?


Quote:
Theme tweaking is a pretty deep dive into editing the program. I would argue that it never belonged in the preferences in it's current state.
.... well, again.. in my originating post I specified color and contrast.

Which is not exactly radical stuff to be able to change in a program, YMMV.

Quote:
IOW - A few basic functions could be preferences. But you can basically design a theme with this action. It's next level complicated and isn't for every user IMHO.

I wasn't referencing said subject, but ok.
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Old 12-16-2019, 11:10 AM   #591
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Ok, I'm not sure if you guys are taking the piss at my expense today, so I'm going to leave it at this:

People are having issues I believe possibly because of gamma settings.

It would be nice to have control over the brightness, color and contrast of theme elements (like some programs allow).

It would be convenient to have it under "preferences".

I think it would alleviate much of the complaining about White Tie's default theme.



If you choose to interpret any of that any other way knock yourself out.
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Old 12-16-2019, 11:16 AM   #592
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chip mcdonald View Post
My ORIGINATING post said:

"Things like contrast and color are such a subjective thing that probably the only way of calming the Rabid Horde is to include the ability for the user to change these aspects of the basic elements of the UI in Reaper. I'm not sure why the theming page was buried/taken away/limited, it doesn't seem to have helped anything?
You are correct. My apologies.

I was responding to this part:

Quote:
Originally Posted by chip mcdonald View Post

I think the only thing I believe is amiss is that the tweakability by the user, that was taken away should be given back in the form of a control panel like in WT's theme.
I didn't see the other. Again. My apologies.
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Old 12-16-2019, 11:19 AM   #593
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Quote:
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Ok, I'm not sure if you guys are taking the piss at my expense today
I'm not. I ask for clarification so that we're all talking about the same thing. I was confused.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chip mcdonald View Post
People are having issues I believe possibly because of gamma settings.

It would be nice to have control over the brightness, color and contrast of theme elements (like some programs allow).

It would be convenient to have it under "preferences".

I think it would alleviate much of the complaining about White Tie's default theme.
To be clear, although you can achieve this with the theme tweaker in the actions, it doesn't exist as simply as you've described. Correct?
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Old 12-17-2019, 10:30 AM   #594
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia View Post
I'm not. I ask for clarification so that we're all talking about the same thing. I was confused.



To be clear, although you can achieve this with the theme tweaker in the actions, it doesn't exist as simply as you've described. Correct?

Correct... which is why I was suggesting if it *was**, maybe there wouldn't be so much foment over "it's too dark/illegible/washed out" not only relative to WT's theme, but other themes as well.


$.10
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Old 12-17-2019, 11:07 AM   #595
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Originally Posted by chip mcdonald View Post
Correct... which is why I was suggesting if it *was**, maybe there wouldn't be so much foment over "it's too dark/illegible/washed out" not only relative to WT's theme, but other themes as well.


$.10
Gotcha. And that probably would (should) be in the preferences.

There also might be great reasons not to have that simple tweak at all available to most users but that's above my pay grade.

Sorry for the earlier confusion.
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Old 12-17-2019, 11:55 AM   #596
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You know, as heated as this sometimes gets, there seems always room for apologies. I really appreciate that!
(Not referring to specific persons, just in general).
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Old 12-19-2019, 12:22 PM   #597
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In case the whining mooks among us don't get it, it surely sounds like WT has about had it with your incessant mewling - you would do VERY well to STFU.
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Old 12-19-2019, 03:20 PM   #598
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I'm surprised a lot of people don't like the lower contrast. It looks a lot smoother and less hard on the eyes to me. I can't stand the old theme I was using before v6 now. Don't know how I stared at that for so long. I also really like the gray/teal color scheme. The only thing about the colors I don't like is the bright window background, solely because it looks so out of place if you have any windows docked. I feel like there should be separate window colors for docked windows vs. floating windows. I like the bright colors for floating windows, but I don't want a random square of brightness in the top right corner for my docked CPU meter.
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Old 12-20-2019, 06:11 PM   #599
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I tried editing the theme here and there to make it look a little better and more clear. How does this look?



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Old 12-21-2019, 06:52 AM   #600
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theme itself is not too badly seen from here
but for my part I do not feel the WOW effect and nothing really new, I would have wished a more radical change, as for the theme adjuster this would definitely be included directly in the reaper options for it to work with most of the themes (general contrast ect)
but there is still good idea in this theme and very difficult to please everyone ...
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