Old 09-01-2018, 11:34 AM   #1
dsealer
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Pa
Posts: 440
Default Mixing/Rendering/Clipping

Here is a little background on my situation.
I've got 13 songs. I use the Youlean Loudness Meter to keep volumes in check on the Master Track. I've got all 13 songs at -12db in Youlean. No clipping on any of the individual tracks in any of the 13 songs. So I Render each song. No Redlines when Rendering and nothing in the Render Box shows any clipping.

I then create a new Project and copy the wav file from each song into the New Project. I line the songs up track by track with about 2 seconds between each song. The only effect anywhere in this New Project is on the Master Track, I put Youlean Loudness Meter on the Master Track. Checking each song with the loudness meter shows them all at -12db. However a couple of the tracks show some clipping at spots. I see the track meter and the Master meter clip. Only at spots and just 0.0 and +0.1.
So my question is, why does the Master Track in the New Project clip when the song projects don't?
Thanks,
Don.....
__________________
Don.....
dsealer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2018, 04:56 PM   #2
MRMJP
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 2,065
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dsealer View Post
Here is a little background on my situation.
I've got 13 songs. I use the Youlean Loudness Meter to keep volumes in check on the Master Track. I've got all 13 songs at -12db in Youlean. No clipping on any of the individual tracks in any of the 13 songs. So I Render each song. No Redlines when Rendering and nothing in the Render Box shows any clipping.

I then create a new Project and copy the wav file from each song into the New Project. I line the songs up track by track with about 2 seconds between each song. The only effect anywhere in this New Project is on the Master Track, I put Youlean Loudness Meter on the Master Track. Checking each song with the loudness meter shows them all at -12db. However a couple of the tracks show some clipping at spots. I see the track meter and the Master meter clip. Only at spots and just 0.0 and +0.1.
So my question is, why does the Master Track in the New Project clip when the song projects don't?
Thanks,
Don.....
Is there sample rate conversion involved? Sample rate conversion and also lossy encoding to mp3/ACC etc. will increase the peak levels ever so slightly.
__________________
REAPER, just script it bro.
MRMJP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2018, 05:07 PM   #3
dsealer
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Pa
Posts: 440
Default

I don't believe there is any sample rate change. I always render to the highest level wav.
__________________
Don.....
dsealer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2018, 11:47 AM   #4
MRMJP
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 2,065
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dsealer View Post
I don't believe there is any sample rate change. I always render to the highest level wav.
I'd triple check that you are not changing the sample rate. The "highest level" sample rate REAPER allows is 192k so if you are rendering a 192k WAV from your lower sample rate REAPER session, you are likely to induce peak level changes and other unwanted artifacts.

You should clarify what sample rate your original session is at, what your new session is at, and what you mean by "highest level WAV" because it sounds like you could very easily be doing unnecessary sample rate conversion among other things.
__________________
REAPER, just script it bro.
MRMJP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2018, 10:34 AM   #5
dsealer
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Pa
Posts: 440
Default

Ok so I've checked again. Sample Rate is 44100 on all sources, original song file and Rendered file. Resample Rates are the same on all my songs. When I Render I use Extreme HQ 768 pt. Playback Resample Rate is the same on all my songs as well, 64pt.
This happening is very strange. I have Rendered songs maybe as many times as 100 and have never had this happen. When I go back to the source song file and play the song nothing clips, not on any individual track nor coming out of the Master Track. When I Render the song nothing clips anywhere in the Render. However when I play the Rendered Wav file I get some clipping. 0.0 & 0.1 from the song file and the Master. Of the 13 songs this is happening on 3 songs. All songs were Rendered with the same settings.
I'm considering letting it go since it's minute clipping and nothing audible as I listen to the songs. It would be nice to understand why this happened however.
Thanks for your help and suggestions.
Don.....
__________________
Don.....
dsealer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2018, 01:44 PM   #6
MRMJP
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 2,065
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dsealer View Post
Ok so I've checked again. Sample Rate is 44100 on all sources, original song file and Rendered file. Resample Rates are the same on all my songs. When I Render I use Extreme HQ 768 pt. Playback Resample Rate is the same on all my songs as well, 64pt.
This happening is very strange. I have Rendered songs maybe as many times as 100 and have never had this happen. When I go back to the source song file and play the song nothing clips, not on any individual track nor coming out of the Master Track. When I Render the song nothing clips anywhere in the Render. However when I play the Rendered Wav file I get some clipping. 0.0 & 0.1 from the song file and the Master. Of the 13 songs this is happening on 3 songs. All songs were Rendered with the same settings.
I'm considering letting it go since it's minute clipping and nothing audible as I listen to the songs. It would be nice to understand why this happened however.
Thanks for your help and suggestions.
Don.....
No problem. This definitely strange. I render regions out of REAPER many times daily and there is never a difference in peak levels. Usually these small peak-level differences come from sample rate changes and/or lossy formats where the peak levels increase after conversion.

The other option could be the difference between true-peak metering and digital peak-metering.

I suppose without seeing screen shots of your render and project settings it might be hard to help any further but there should be some reason for this that can be resolved.
__________________
REAPER, just script it bro.
MRMJP is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:04 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.