Old 10-20-2021, 07:54 PM   #1
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Hey yall,

Old timer coming back after a long time

I just want to wish you guys an amazing month of October and wish the best for you all. All of you helped me a lot which I couldn't thank you enough for.

One thing I do want to say is that I learned a lot about music. Not just making it but the structure behind the scenes. That part un-regrettably forced me to quit as I lost passion for it. On top of that, I got a baby on the way (Which is why I say I don't regret it).

If music really is your passion, make time for it so you don't miss it. Even if you suck at it.

I'm just thinking of old times grinding away on synths and finding my muse and I can't help but miss it. Cherish the times and if you don't want to lost that feeling, always keep 30% of your heart to your self.

I still however love music just as much as ever and thanks to you guys I can be a snob when someone says they like a song that's poorly mixed

Might sound sob but there's nothing wrong in missing something. Love you all.
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Old 10-20-2021, 09:27 PM   #2
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Yeah, I think it's really easy to loose sight of things that matter the most to us when we're tired or have other things stressing us out in life. Something like playing/making music DOES take energy so when we're busy, we want to cut ANYTHING out. But if it's our output valve, our time for ourselves, by cutting it off we're going to be cutting a major piece of our well-being off too.

I also think the muse thing is bullshit, quite frankly! If you make stuff more, spend time with it, it's going to get easier. I think the creative rut has to do with a too demanding artistic self-image much more than anything. Never heard carpenters talking about not being able to make a chair because they lost their muse! I also doubt carpenters start out a chair thinking the chair has to be completely original! After all, it's just a chair. It has a function. And there are so many different types of chairs. So just make one, okay? It may not be pretty but it serves a function.
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Old 10-21-2021, 01:30 AM   #3
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The passion comes and goes from time to time. In my case I just need a break every now and than, do something else like build some gear and when I'm tired of that I look forward to do music again. It's good to have a break but if music is in your blood, you'll always come back to it sooner or later.
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Old 10-21-2021, 10:57 PM   #4
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I think in this video Will Oldham nails it when talking about silly songs. So when you're a performing and writing artist, you don't have the luxury to have an writers block. So you write silly songs to get you going!

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Old 10-22-2021, 08:29 PM   #5
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Yeah, I think it's really easy to loose sight of things that matter the most to us when we're tired or have other things stressing us out in life. Something like playing/making music DOES take energy so when we're busy, we want to cut ANYTHING out. But if it's our output valve, our time for ourselves, by cutting it off we're going to be cutting a major piece of our well-being off too.

I also think the muse thing is bullshit, quite frankly! If you make stuff more, spend time with it, it's going to get easier. I think the creative rut has to do with a too demanding artistic self-image much more than anything. Never heard carpenters talking about not being able to make a chair because they lost their muse! I also doubt carpenters start out a chair thinking the chair has to be completely original! After all, it's just a chair. It has a function. And there are so many different types of chairs. So just make one, okay? It may not be pretty but it serves a function.
The best thing about daw music is that we can simply delete the chair if we don't like it ,rather than have a physical reminder of failure .

BUT I find looking over long past failures that were not deleted ,they sometimes become "never to be deleted" Daws are great !
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Old 10-22-2021, 10:07 PM   #6
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You are remembered OPI
All the best for October and the rest too.
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Old 10-22-2021, 11:15 PM   #7
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the beauty of this music caper is that it will still be here waiting for you for when you have the time and the inclination to play and record again. Best of luck on the coming bub too
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Old 10-22-2021, 11:32 PM   #8
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I have a serious love/hate relationship with song writing.

Sometimes it goes very quickly and is an amazing experience but most of the time I feel totally uninspired and a complete failure and wonder what the hell I am playing at trying to write music.

I have totally lost passion for anything new from other bands and musicians, which maybe doesn't help. My teenage years were 1990-1999 so I listened to many bands from the 80s and 90s. I feel now like those people during my "time" who only liked the 60s or 70s rock and everything that came after was shit.

I think originality is a myth. Even the bands I consider original, while having their own sound, still base their music on what came before but only slightly added to it. I try not to focus on being creatively original but just enjoy making music. The problem with anything I hear these days is it just feels like permutations on stuff I have heard before.
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Old 10-23-2021, 12:00 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by inertia View Post
The problem with anything I hear these days is it just feels like permutations on stuff I have heard before.
Yeah, but that opens up a great opportunity for you:
It is up to you to create something new that is not a
permutation of the old.
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Old 10-23-2021, 12:05 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inertia View Post
I have a serious love/hate relationship with song writing.

Sometimes it goes very quickly and is an amazing experience but most of the time I feel totally uninspired and a complete failure and wonder what the hell I am playing at trying to write music.

I have totally lost passion for anything new from other bands and musicians, which maybe doesn't help. My teenage years were 1990-1999 so I listened to many bands from the 80s and 90s. I feel now like those people during my "time" who only liked the 60s or 70s rock and everything that came after was shit.

I think originality is a myth. Even the bands I consider original, while having their own sound, still base their music on what came before but only slightly added to it. I try not to focus on being creatively original but just enjoy making music. The problem with anything I hear these days is it just feels like permutations on stuff I have heard before.
The urge to be totally original has been catastrophic for music, at least in terms of the death of melody.

A mixture of ego, obsession with novelty, snobbery, misguidance, and perhaps most important of all fear of legal action - accusations of plagiarism.
The latest thing to add to to this toxic mix is the sometimes bizarre notion of cultural appropriation.
Music has built on previous works for centuries, and for the better.
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Old 10-23-2021, 04:55 AM   #11
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+1,000,000 ^^

Any time I try to wander too far off into 'my own creation' land, I end up w/something useless, incoherent...no cultural glue to hold it together. Some can walk that razor edge (Zappa et. al.); not me!

If we were to truly hold to the 'never heard before' axiom...wouldn't we have to have no rhythm to follow, and so on? lol I think a little inspiration is how it works, and we're all products of what we 'ingest'. I think it's honorable if done from an honest place. My 2 cents.
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Old 10-23-2021, 07:35 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inertia View Post
I have a serious love/hate relationship with song writing.

Sometimes it goes very quickly and is an amazing experience but most of the time I feel totally uninspired and a complete failure and wonder what the hell I am playing at trying to write music.

I have totally lost passion for anything new from other bands and musicians, which maybe doesn't help. My teenage years were 1990-1999 so I listened to many bands from the 80s and 90s. I feel now like those people during my "time" who only liked the 60s or 70s rock and everything that came after was shit.

I think originality is a myth. Even the bands I consider original, while having their own sound, still base their music on what came before but only slightly added to it. I try not to focus on being creatively original but just enjoy making music. The problem with anything I hear these days is it just feels like permutations on stuff I have heard before.
Innovation ebbs and flows. Each period of classical music was largely permutations on a limited musical vocabulary and instrumentation, and they all lasted around a century. This is nothing new, it just feels like culture is grinding to a halt because we've come out of a century of rapid cultural and technological innovation.
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Old 10-23-2021, 07:20 PM   #13
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Agreed, there isn't one way of doing things... sometimes little mistakes or something random can turn out to be just as good as an inspiration as a muse... art/music is weird.
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Old 10-23-2021, 10:34 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Judders View Post
Innovation ebbs and flows. Each period of classical music was largely permutations on a limited musical vocabulary and instrumentation, and they all lasted around a century. This is nothing new, it just feels like culture is grinding to a halt because we've come out of a century of rapid cultural and technological innovation.
Great point!

I have a large collection of classical music...many "complete works" boxsets from the big name composers. Going through the Mozart CDs was a real grind with every harpsichord piece sounding neigh on the same.

It became obvious to me that even the greats have reels of dross - nothing more than practice scribbles to hone their skills. My own harddrive has a ton of forgotten ideas, segments and incomplete songs while my own catalogue of official releases comprises of around 30 songs of questionable standards
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Old 10-23-2021, 10:38 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by enroe View Post
Yeah, but that opens up a great opportunity for you:
It is up to you to create something new that is not a
permutation of the old.
Yes but originality does not mean good. I can easily make "highly original" sounding crap that is ultra progressive and on the cutting edge but no one wants to hear it. I wouldn't want to either

My original point was that new / younger customers don't have the exposure to the music that came before in the same way so to them it's fairly fresh and innovative. For us older folks, we often transcend through other musical genres to find what we are looking for.
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Old 10-24-2021, 01:58 AM   #16
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Quote:
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Yes but originality does not mean good. I can easily make "highly original" sounding crap that is ultra progressive and on the cutting edge but no one wants to hear it. I wouldn't want to either
The most important criterion is: WHAT do you want to hear - and then
create it yourself as music?

And depending on what this "what" is, you will also find yourself
in the old loop that you are simply composing permutations of the
old. So I find it difficult to complain about such "permutations
of the old".

Quote:
Originally Posted by inertia View Post
My original point was that new / younger customers don't have the exposure to the music that came before in the same way so to them it's fairly fresh and innovative. For us older folks, we often transcend through other musical genres to find what we are looking for.
Mmmh, I don't know ... I can be just as happy about younger
musicians and bands who make good music - those that I like -
as I can about the old folks from the 70s. I don't see any
difference in principle. Music is music!

Probably everyone makes the excursion into other genres when
they need new inspiration. The Beatles (Indian music etc.)
already did that. That would definitely be a good tip if you
don't know what you want or if you are not getting anywhere.
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Old 10-24-2021, 08:31 AM   #17
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I don't want to argue or disagree with the actual point here...
But I want to make the quip that in this business (audio work) you're going to have plenty of time when gigs are scarce to play with that 30%! (And only 30% if you're lucky! )
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Old 10-24-2021, 11:05 AM   #18
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Great point!
I have a large collection of classical music...many "complete works" boxsets from the big name composers. Going through the Mozart CDs was a real grind with every harpsichord piece sounding neigh on the same.
he was very well educated by other masters, but that time is different. Music was quite a painstaking event back then, very strict especially tonal and counterpoint, music and composition rules that allowed for little error. But there is something to say for that, and indicates that it was seen as a serious craft back then, even before/after or rediscovery of muses and romanticism threw a spanner in these concepts. Still having a hard time with reading through such dated books about counterpoint, bordering on too much complexity. But perhaps contemporary music is a watered down version of what once was rather complex and baroque. The scientific/formulaic approach still works and can be applied to art and music, but they not always the same.

Last edited by Flaneurette; 10-24-2021 at 11:11 AM.
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Old 10-24-2021, 11:16 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inertia View Post
Yes but originality does not mean good. I can easily make "highly original" sounding crap that is ultra progressive and on the cutting edge but no one wants to hear it. I wouldn't want to either

My original point was that new / younger customers don't have the exposure to the music that came before in the same way so to them it's fairly fresh and innovative. For us older folks, we often transcend through other musical genres to find what we are looking for.
Musicologists know that the brain perceives and likes music that is seemingly structured and formulaic. Anything that does not fit a (cultural) pattern, is usually disliked, even if it follows a similar pattern. There is more at play, and especially as to what one is exposed to.

Anything new is usually shunned, the Piano was shunned for a long time because it "sounded different".

I did not grew up with "beats" or beat makers, so it doesn't sound enjoyable to me even though musically it is correct.
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Old 10-24-2021, 12:34 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Flaneurette View Post
Musicologists know that the brain perceives and likes music that is seemingly structured and formulaic. Anything that does not fit a (cultural) pattern, is usually disliked, even if it follows a similar pattern. There is more at play, and especially as to what one is exposed to.

Anything new is usually shunned, the Piano was shunned for a long time because it "sounded different".

I did not grew up with "beats" or beat makers, so it doesn't sound enjoyable to me even though musically it is correct.
It's much simpler than that - and it can be applied to nearly all things in life. We 'like' things that are familiar. If something is familiar it's generally safe. If something is unfamiliar it's human nature to reject it until it become familiar and 'safe'. It's true of all of us to some degree.

'Original' has always struck me as a strangely term within music because what gets called original is almost always something very familiar but with a very slight difference. The techno track that uses a slightly different handclap to the one most commonly heard is automatically 'original'. The rock track with a bongo way in the back of the mix during the chorus is 'Brutally original! - NME

Lol
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