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08-07-2008, 05:42 PM
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#1
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 79
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Vu Meters, why would I want the plugin?
Why would I want a VU meter plug in when I already have built in VU meters on the Mixer in Reaper?
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08-07-2008, 06:29 PM
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#2
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Mortal
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 6,654
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Dunno. Who said you should use a plugin?
Well, more seriously, there are some very fancy and costly ones for people who can't live without that kind of thing, but whether it makes any difference to the end result of their audio I rather doubt.
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08-08-2008, 02:08 AM
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#3
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 2,629
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I have a few VU-meter plugins that I never use. However, something like ElementalAudio's Inspector (there is a nice free one) has a lot of nice features besides it's VU-meters
I have Inspector sitting in my default Fx-chain on the master strip
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08-08-2008, 07:32 AM
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#4
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: In a cave
Posts: 672
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Anything that helps bring analog eng's over to the digital side is ok with me.
1dell:
I'm assuming you know that VU meters respond more slowly to singal changes and transients than normal bar meters.
__________________
Sometimes it's intermittent, sometimes it's not.
"Don't quantize me bro".
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08-08-2008, 09:46 PM
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#5
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 79
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Yeah thats precisely what I was thinking. Thanks guys. I'm getting rid of the ones I have. I definitely have to check out that ElementalAudio's Inspector. I'm looking to set up plugins I'll need for the master strip
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08-09-2008, 08:30 AM
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#6
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Posts: 2,028
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Some DAWs don't have VU metering and only have peak metering...
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08-09-2008, 09:16 AM
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#7
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 79
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hmm, so is that what Reaper Has? Peak Monitoring? or is this a VU monitor? I mean those lights that flash in response to the signal on each track.
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08-09-2008, 10:13 AM
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#8
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Miami
Posts: 2,298
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Reaper utilizes digital Peak meters and RMS meters. Not the same as VU meters at all, though the term VU meter has become a catch all; it's not, though, VU actually refers to certain characteristics. Do a google for VU meter and you can find the spec.
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08-09-2008, 11:06 AM
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#9
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: South Coast UK
Posts: 14,303
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Maybe they are for people that can't see very fast
__________________
The grass is greener where it rains
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08-09-2008, 11:10 AM
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#10
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 79
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Good stuff Ngarjuna, I'll do just that. Thank
Quote:
Originally Posted by ngarjuna
Reaper utilizes digital Peak meters and RMS meters. Not the same as VU meters at all, though the term VU meter has become a catch all; it's not, though, VU actually refers to certain characteristics. Do a google for VU meter and you can find the spec.
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08-09-2008, 11:24 AM
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#11
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Germany's California
Posts: 1,543
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there's a lot to VU and digital peak meters. they can have as much settings and styles as compressors do.
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08-10-2008, 07:10 PM
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#12
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: In a cave
Posts: 672
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I must have misunderstood.
I thought that RMS was a bar graph version of a meter that reacted like a VU.
Is this not the case?
__________________
Sometimes it's intermittent, sometimes it's not.
"Don't quantize me bro".
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08-10-2008, 07:26 PM
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#13
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Miami
Posts: 2,298
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Nope.
RMS = Root Mean Square.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Root_mean_square
I've read that most audio/multimeter RMS meters aren't "true" RMS calculations. Here is an article I found on that subject:
http://www.hifi-writer.com/he/misc/rmspower.htm
I'm not an EE guy, so I can't back that up, but it's not the first place I've seen the complaint. Someone with more of an EE background can probably fill in the details better.
VU, on the other hand, relates to a particular formula. The VU (or volume unit) was codified by CBS/Bell Labs/etc. back in the 30s. Per wikipedia:
"The behaviour of VU meters is defined in ANSI C16.5-1942, British Standard BS 6840, and IEC 60268-17." I don't know the standard by heart (and I'm too lazy to go look it up), but I believe it includes not only the various formulas for calculating a volume unit, but also the ballistics of the meter itself. A true VU meter is supposed to be called a VI, volume indicator, but this term has fallen out of use in favor of VU meter. The VU meter is tuned around human speech (it was originally developed for use in telephone lines). In other program material, its usefulness can vary. Most engineers who prefer real VU meters do so because it's what they're used to; the industry used the VU as the primary metering unit for probably 75 years or so.
There are many analog meters which are pretty similar to VU meters (and even call themselves as such) but do not meet that standard, hence the confusion in the industry and why your average analog meter gets referred to simply as a VU meter, even if it's not one.
My M-Audio DMP3 has "VU meters" which, when you read into the manual, are not even close to being VU meters; they are actually made to replicate a digital style peak meter. So why did M-Audio mark them up and make them look just like VU meters? Because the "classic look" is in. Not terribly useful, though, imo.
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08-10-2008, 07:39 PM
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#14
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Miami
Posts: 2,298
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Since this may not be obvious, I want to mention:
Most of these meters have little or nothing to do with actual acoustics/audio. They are measurements of electricity. They can be useful in certain contexts and help us to make informed decisions about the audio (because obviously the electricity behind it all plays a big part in recording and amplifying sound), but it's not really a measurement of sound itself. Sound are (somebody correct me if I'm wrong, has been several years since Uni) longitudinal waves, electricity are transverse waves. So there are fundamental differences when you convert back and forth.
I could be wrong, but I think even an SPL meter is measuring electricity: it has to convert the incoming sound waves via the mic in the unit and then measures the value of that electrical signal. I'm sure other types of devices have been developed and sold to more closely measure actual audio rather than just arcane electrical concepts, but you're still stuck with a conversion unless they've developed a listening/metering device that doesn't depend on converting the incoming signal to electricity (maybe they have). Maybe the ears do that, I'm not up on my audio anatomy. But the ears would get filtered through a very complex processor (the brain), which is not always so honest and compensates a lot.
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08-11-2008, 08:51 AM
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#15
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: In a cave
Posts: 672
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Thanks Ngarjuna,
Unless a plug-in simulates the actual feel of a VU then it's false advertising of a sort IMO if the plug shows a VU meter.
__________________
Sometimes it's intermittent, sometimes it's not.
"Don't quantize me bro".
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08-11-2008, 09:39 AM
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#16
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: A place that allows me to protect myself...
Posts: 8,245
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Old, analog "Vu" meter designs had to take into account the ballistics of a moving mechanical system. Many old-school guys still like them because of the inherent "smoothness" (slowness actually!) of some of the old analog meters. So besides calibrating the electrical "side" of the meters, technicians had to tend to the mechanics as well.
Use Reapers built-in meters and call it done. You can tweak them pretty much any way you want. The old moving coil/needle meters are cute but are somewhat an anachronism IMO.
D
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08-11-2008, 10:24 AM
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#17
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Mortal
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Wickenburg, Arizona
Posts: 14,047
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I've reccomended to use the PSP vintage meter plugin in conjunction with ReaComp to find the rms window size in the compressor video
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08-12-2008, 07:25 AM
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#18
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1dell
Why would I want a VU meter plug in when I already have built in VU meters on the Mixer in Reaper?
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I was just thinking that a VU plugin might be useful when searching for distortion in an FX chain that isin't showing up in the channel meter. e.g. before the limiter.
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08-12-2008, 04:38 PM
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#19
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: In a cave
Posts: 672
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nardberr
I was just thinking that a VU plugin might be useful when searching for distortion in an FX chain that isin't showing up in the channel meter. e.g. before the limiter.
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I would think that you would want a standard meter. The VU would not react to short transient distortion.
__________________
Sometimes it's intermittent, sometimes it's not.
"Don't quantize me bro".
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08-13-2008, 12:33 PM
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#20
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 2,629
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nardberr
I was just thinking that a VU plugin might be useful when searching for distortion in an FX chain that isin't showing up in the channel meter. e.g. before the limiter.
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I think you realy want Inspector for that
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