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Old 11-28-2022, 03:11 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by daverich View Post
personally I'd rather keep the download size down rather than filling it up with fancy graphics.

yes, defnitely
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Old 11-28-2022, 03:23 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by daverich View Post
personally I'd rather keep the download size down rather than filling it up with fancy graphics.

Is that what would actually happen if the non themeable parts became themeable?
If we could choose larger fonts for the plugin text lists would Reaper suddenly take up hundreds of megabytes for some reason?
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Old 11-28-2022, 03:33 PM   #43
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Is that what would actually happen if the non themeable parts became themeable?
If we could choose larger fonts for the plugin text lists would Reaper suddenly take up hundreds of megabytes for some reason?
Big deal!
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Old 11-28-2022, 03:37 PM   #44
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My 1980's Atari 2600 game console called and said they'd like their mouse icons back.

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Old 11-28-2022, 04:06 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by klong View Post
Thanks WhiteTie. I somewhat regret the title of the post, as it isn't really what I meant or even hope for. I guess what I would really like to ask you is, are you or anyone else working with the devs to make incremental UI/UX improvements, to make more areas of the DAW scalable or/or themable?


Now that's a question, I would not even answer!
I've seen people think that they are owed an detailed answer for such a question. If thay (the Dev's) say yes, then they get bombarded with even more questions.

Accept what it is and make music.



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Old 11-28-2022, 04:14 PM   #46
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My 1980's Atari 2600 game console called and said they'd like their mouse icons back.

You can make your own or use someone's. It is customizable.
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Old 11-28-2022, 04:14 PM   #47
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Now that's a question, I would not even answer!
I've seen people think that they are owed an detailed answer for such a question. If thay (the Dev's) say yes, then they get bombarded with even more questions.

Accept what it is and make music.



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Yes.
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Old 11-28-2022, 04:47 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by Softsynth View Post
Is that what would actually happen if the non themeable parts became themeable?
If we could choose larger fonts for the plugin text lists would Reaper suddenly take up hundreds of megabytes for some reason?
But of course. Big letters take up a lot of space, right!

This is also why REAPER can run with so many effects without choking: the lettering on the inserts is very, very small!
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Old 11-28-2022, 04:57 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by daverich View Post
personally I'd rather keep the download size down rather than filling it up with fancy graphics.

Dave,

vector graphics are actually smaller than *.BMP so having scalable gxf the current theme should be smaller.


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Old 11-28-2022, 05:21 PM   #50
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You can make your own or use someone's. It is customizable.
I looked all over for those things to change them out. Where they hidden at?
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Old 11-28-2022, 05:32 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by nicholas View Post
Interesting. Personally, I like the simple clean interface of the Rea suite of plug-ins.

Substance over form every day of the week for me, and twice on Sundays.
For me if a plug-in is ugly I go and use a different one until it gets pushed on me. I use some of the air windows plugins just for that reason that I could not find anything else to do the same job. Compressors and EQs though are easy to find and so many of them have gorgeous interfaces that there's no way I would use a gui-less plug-in instead. My eyes are old and the good looking guis give me many more visual cues without me having to search to find out what each slider does.
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Old 11-28-2022, 07:18 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Softsynth View Post
Is that what would actually happen if the non themeable parts became themeable?
If we could choose larger fonts for the plugin text lists would Reaper suddenly take up hundreds of megabytes for some reason?

It sounds like more 7 mb to the installer + - which gonna ruin everything. I bet white fonts with white backgrounds would be improvement to the performance since graphics have to process only one color.
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Old 11-28-2022, 08:03 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Coachz View Post
For me if a plug-in is ugly I go and use a different one until it gets pushed on me. I use some of the air windows plugins just for that reason that I could not find anything else to do the same job. Compressors and EQs though are easy to find and so many of them have gorgeous interfaces that there's no way I would use a gui-less plug-in instead. My eyes are old and the good looking guis give me many more visual cues without me having to search to find out what each slider does.
To each his own Coachz, ReaPlugs are simple, easy to use, and they've got it all, as good or better as any other. sliders, knobs, either work fine, but I like the sliders on ReaPlugs, they're easy to adjust and the numbers are all visible and easy to see.

I do have the FabFilter plugins and I like them too, I often combine them with ReaPlugs and JS plugins. Speaking of JS, there ae some real gems, many are hidden, if for no other reason than nobody talks about them..

However, I understand where you're coming from Coachz, and you're definitely not alone. If what you use works better for you, what the heck, that's what it's all about.
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Old 11-28-2022, 08:15 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by daverich View Post
personally I'd rather keep the download size down rather than filling it up with fancy graphics.

I agree.

The GUI windows may not be pretty, but the built in effects are actually very good and simple to use. Overall I find the editing screen with my custom theme very easy on the eyes.

The GUI issues I run into are usually related to third party developers, notably NI - non-scalable makes them impossible to read on anything other than HD (1920x1080).
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Old 11-29-2022, 02:58 AM   #55
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I agree.

The GUI windows may not be pretty, but the built in effects are actually very good and simple to use. Overall I find the editing screen with my custom theme very easy on the eyes.

The GUI issues I run into are usually related to third party developers, notably NI - non-scalable makes them impossible to read on anything other than HD (1920x1080).
as I said above , vector graphics shoudn't be any larger than the current bitmap graphics, they could be smaller.


Also it's 2022 people, what's the obsession with a tiny installer? I mean if it was 100mb instead of 11Mb whats the big deal? We can download this using our phones easily and quickly.

You can get USB thumb drives in poundland .

I'm all for efficient code writing but HD space/download speeds have never been cheaper/faster. I'ts NOT 1998 anymore



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Old 11-29-2022, 03:06 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by norbury brook View Post
as I said above , vector graphics shoudn't be any larger than the current bitmap graphics, they could be smaller.


Also it's 2022 people, what's the obsession with a tiny installer? I mean if it was 100mb instead of 11Mb whats the big deal? We can download this using our phones easily and quickly.
Well it will be compressed, so could be max 30 mb.
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Old 11-29-2022, 03:16 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by mozart999uk View Post
This can be hard if parts of the screen are hard to read due to tiny fonts, icons etc.

Have some compassion for those of us who are a bit older and have age related presbyopia.
Even for younger eyes it is not easy to read with higher screen resolution.
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Old 11-29-2022, 03:19 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by norbury brook View Post
as I said above , vector graphics shoudn't be any larger than the current bitmap graphics, they could be smaller.


Also it's 2022 people, what's the obsession with a tiny installer? I mean if it was 100mb instead of 11Mb whats the big deal? We can download this using our phones easily and quickly.

You can get USB thumb drives in poundland .

I'm all for efficient code writing but HD space/download speeds have never been cheaper/faster. I'ts NOT 1998 anymore



M
This :-)
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Old 11-29-2022, 05:50 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by norbury brook View Post
as I said above , vector graphics shoudn't be any larger than the current bitmap graphics, they could be smaller.


Also it's 2022 people, what's the obsession with a tiny installer? I mean if it was 100mb instead of 11Mb whats the big deal? We can download this using our phones easily and quickly.

You can get USB thumb drives in poundland .

I'm all for efficient code writing but HD space/download speeds have never been cheaper/faster. I'ts NOT 1998 anymore



M
Yep spot on, just seems like a bit of an excuse to avoid making the stock plugins nicer to look at. People aren't using 56k modems anymore.
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Old 11-29-2022, 06:02 AM   #60
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Yep spot on, just seems like a bit of an excuse to avoid making the stock plugins nicer to look at. People aren't using 56k modems anymore.
Whose excuse? Did Justin, Schwa or White Tie write that they won't change anything because of increasing the size?
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Old 11-29-2022, 06:26 AM   #61
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Dave,

vector graphics are actually smaller than *.BMP so having scalable gxf the current theme should be smaller.


M
fair enough then - full disclosure I'm still using the V3 theme 'cos I like it best
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Old 11-29-2022, 06:51 AM   #62
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I can understand the developers not wanting to do this, since aesthetics might not be their forte. However, they could certainly outsource this to others, as there have been some great designs submitted; I'm sure they could be implemented. Opening things up is always a great way to improve software.

Like it or not, a lot of people factor in visuals when choosing their DAW. REAPER would absolutely expand its userbase if it were to incorporate prettier plugins. The stock plugins do unfortunately make REAPER seem less sophisticated and less professional, and this will put some people off. And unlike some, I don't judge these people; I understand completely, and I think a better look can be more inspiring for artistic creation.
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Old 11-29-2022, 01:37 PM   #63
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I can understand the developers not wanting to do this, since aesthetics might not be their forte. However, they could certainly outsource this to others, as there have been some great designs submitted; I'm sure they could be implemented. Opening things up is always a great way to improve software.

Like it or not, a lot of people factor in visuals when choosing their DAW. REAPER would absolutely expand its userbase if it were to incorporate prettier plugins. The stock plugins do unfortunately make REAPER seem less sophisticated and less professional, and this will put some people off. And unlike some, I don't judge these people; I understand completely, and I think a better look can be more inspiring for artistic creation.
Agreed 100%
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Old 11-29-2022, 01:42 PM   #64
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As someone who was considering a giant 4k tv for studio work, this fonts issue is not a good thing to read, possibly literally. My eyes are screwed as it is!
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Old 11-29-2022, 04:41 PM   #65
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As someone who was considering a giant 4k tv for studio work, this fonts issue is not a good thing to read, possibly literally. My eyes are screwed as it is!
Giant is no problem.

4K is basically only like 4x 1080p panels. Imagine viewing a screen made up of four 27" 1080p panels, that's similar to one 55" 4K display in terms of DPI. IOW actually quite large pixels.

It's when you start looking at 32" 4K or even smaller these issues could get serious for most people. 27" 4K can look ridiculous with many non scaling plugins that haven't been designed in recent years as a compromise on these little panels, unless you lose screen real estate with scaling.
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Old 11-29-2022, 05:50 PM   #66
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At the. very least, we should give a shout out to the hard working tweakers who have developed some pretty nice looking themes for reaper, such as iLogic, Imperial, protools and many others.
Thanks to all!
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Old 11-29-2022, 10:02 PM   #67
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Giant is no problem.

4K is basically only like 4x 1080p panels. Imagine viewing a screen made up of four 27" 1080p panels, that's similar to one 55" 4K display in terms of DPI. IOW actually quite large pixels.

It's when you start looking at 32" 4K or even smaller these issues could get serious for most people. 27" 4K can look ridiculous with many non scaling plugins that haven't been designed in recent years as a compromise on these little panels, unless you lose screen real estate with scaling.
Nice one. I understand more now
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Old 11-29-2022, 10:58 PM   #68
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I'm sure half of this board has folders this size. But thank god the Reaper download is small

I don't really care much about the aesthetics but it's true that things in Reaper are becoming, or have become, unreadable
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Old 11-30-2022, 07:51 AM   #69
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Thank god REAPER takes 3 seconds to download rather than the 15 seconds it takes for other DAWs. I use those extra 12 seconds to admire myself in the mirror.
Thank the maker your machine is fast enough so that you cannot appreciate that other hardware is not so rapid.

It's not just that either. Reaper takes seconds to download, even if you have very poor ADSL broadband. Even today plenty of people have a download limit and/or very slow broadband.
When I started with Reaper I was lucky to squeeze just over 2 megabit out of my connection, now I have the option of 500 times faster, however I still know people with 1mbit connections!
Even now that I have decent internet connectivity I don't want to download gigabytes of useless data for a bloatware-tastic DAW!
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Old 11-30-2022, 08:45 AM   #70
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Thank the maker your machine is fast enough so that you cannot appreciate that other hardware is not so rapid.

It's not just that either. Reaper takes seconds to download, even if you have very poor ADSL broadband. Even today plenty of people have a download limit and/or very slow broadband.
When I started with Reaper I was lucky to squeeze just over 2 megabit out of my connection, now I have the option of 500 times faster, however I still know people with 1mbit connections!
Even now that I have decent internet connectivity I don't want to download gigabytes of useless data for a bloatware-tastic DAW!
LOL I've just downloaded 860 Gb of BBS symphony orchestra samples!!!!! 860GB!!!


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Old 11-30-2022, 08:56 AM   #71
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LOL I've just downloaded 860 Gb of BBS symphony orchestra samples!!!!! 860GB!!!


M
Haha, but you wanted those.
I wonder how my circa 2018/19 2mbit connection would've coped with that?

VSL Synchron pianos lives in TB! I will keep to my few MB of Pianoteq 8 in my few MB of Reaper 6.
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Old 11-30-2022, 09:01 AM   #72
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I wish the stock reaper plugins were skin-able.

Otherwise, I have no real issues with Reaper’s GUI.
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Old 11-30-2022, 09:16 AM   #73
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Haha, but you wanted those.
I wonder how my circa 2018/19 2mbit connection would've coped with that?

VSL Synchron pianos lives in TB! I will keep to my few MB of Pianoteq 8 in my few MB of Reaper 6.
Pianoteq 8 is awesome there's an update to 8.02 available.


Back on topic

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Old 11-30-2022, 10:18 AM   #74
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Hey check it out! I figured out how to give some of the mouse icons back to my Atari 2600 and Reaper didn't get sluggish, added a total of 35KB to my Reaper install!

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Old 12-01-2022, 02:00 AM   #75
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Pianoteq 8 is awesome there's an update to 8.02 available.


Back on topic

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Couldn't agree more.
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Old 12-01-2022, 07:47 PM   #76
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I can understand the developers not wanting to do this, since aesthetics might not be their forte.
Not their forte, or not their interest.

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Originally Posted by The Frown View Post
Like it or not, a lot of people factor in visuals when choosing their DAW.
That's right, but less so in the case of many Reaper people, I think. (Check this thread, for instance.)

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Originally Posted by The Frown View Post
REAPER would absolutely expand its userbase if it were to incorporate prettier plugins.
Probably. One reason I went with a DAW other than Reaper years ago was because of the UI. I spend a *lot* of time in my DAW. I want it to look nice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Frown View Post
The stock plugins do unfortunately make REAPER seem less sophisticated and less professional, and this will put some people off.
It makes it look unsophisticated compared to other DAWs, yeah.

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Originally Posted by The Frown View Post
And unlike some, I don't judge these people; I understand completely, and I think a better look can be more inspiring for artistic creation.
I agree completely. I like an attractive working environment in exactly the same way I like my guitar to be attractive, my studio to be attractive, and my music to be attractive. But maybe Reaper draws a lot of people who favor an industrial esthetic. :-)

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Old 12-02-2022, 03:56 AM   #77
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I don't think the aesthetic of Reaper is what's drawing people. It's the incredible functionality you get once you learn it. The aesthetic is just there. It doesn't really get in the way but it doesn't really inspire. If you are successful with Reaper it just becomes an incredible hammer that may not be beautiful but can hammer the hell out of just about anything you want to hammer.
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Old 12-02-2022, 08:23 AM   #78
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I don't think the aesthetic of Reaper is what's drawing people.
Understatement.



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Anyway, adding a few visual bells and whistles to REAPER isn't going to increase its file size by more than a few megabytes.
^ This.

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That's because REAPER people are a product of REAPER's austere look.
There's also the possibility that the devs are just echoing what they think is the feeling of the general user base.

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An enhanced facade would bring in more people, and different people; more diversity.
Look, I'm on your side, but I want to look at this. Do the devs want to grow the user base? Do the existing users want more users and more diversity?

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I would say it's more Windows 3.1 than industrial.
Hahaha. Two points for the man with the unhappy face. 😎
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Old 12-02-2022, 11:59 AM   #79
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As someone who's plugin preference is largely dictated by aesthetics, I learned to ignore Reaper's hairy warts long ago. I think she's bootiful...

For the committed, there's always the possibility of designing your own interface using TouchOSC, which is what I've done for mouse-free tracking. Editing still has to be done in Reaper, but that's the most customizable area anyway.

Pro's far outweigh the cons.
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Old 12-02-2022, 11:59 AM   #80
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I think it's more the download speed that matters, since very few people now are using computers that are slow enough to lag behind internet speeds. If you're using dial-up or something, then downloading a DAW is the least of your problems. When it's time to upload your music to CD Baby or whatever, well, welcome to the next five years of your life.



Even if your DAW takes a whole hour to download, it's really not that big a deal; life is short, but it's not that short. It's a one-time thing, and the bloated DAWs don't typically require full downloads for upgrades. Anyway, adding a few visual bells and whistles to REAPER isn't going to increase its file size by more than a few megabytes. Use the extra minutes it takes to download to fix that broken door-handle, it's been loose for months now.

Define useless. One person's pap is another person's pop.
YMMV as they say. I'm just giving my opinion.

I'm not arguing for keeping Reaper utterly miniscule at any cost - I wouldn't mind if it was to blow up in size but still stay below 200mb for instance.

However when you've got 1-2mbit broadband several GB of Cubase for instance isn't trivial. Corrupt downloads are unfunny. 30GB sample packages are something you have to download over the space of a week (with retries for corrupt downloads).

Physical modelling synthesis and software synthesizers and Reaper are all crappy broadband friendly - and small SSD friendly too.
The fact that I actually prefer these things over bucket loads of mostly rubbish sample instrument filler was a blessing when I had that awful broadband. It still is now when I have decent broadband.
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