v5.22pre1 - June 17 2016

[franelco]

v5.22pre1 - June 17 2016
+ Accessibility: improve label and tab ordering for ReaEQ/ReaXComp/ReaDelay/About/Project Settings
+ Automation: add new Latch Preview automation mode
+ Automation: avoid resetting latches when switching from Latch Preview mode
+ MIDI editor: fix possible crash when destroying midi item via undo/redo
+ OGG Opus: improve end of stream behavior when writing [p=1695410]
+ Theme: add track_env_preview, mcp_env_preview, gen_env_preview, global_preview images
+ VST3: skip non-automatable and plugin-internal parameters in the FX envelope dialog and FX parameter dropdown

[BenK-msx]

preview automation mode

excuse me while i run to landoleet

edit: uh ok spill the beans, so i can adjust, nothing is written... and then... [line]



ok - it' like regular latch but overide doesn't write to envelope it just adjusts parameter until loop or stop* when existing automation takes over.

we return to regular latch mode to write..

usage = switch from regular latch to preview latch mode to audition some potential change without messing with your s**t > return to write > record it. nothing done while in preview mode is stored anywhere. yah?


*- see post 4

[Justin]

You can also switch from latch preview to latch on the fly to write, or use the various write-latched-envelopes actions...

also in latch preview start/stop of playback etc do not clear the latches

[BenK-msx]

Originally Posted by Justin

You can also switch from latch preview to latch on the fly to write, or use the various write-latched-envelopes actions...

also in latch preview start/stop of playback etc do not clear the latches

right. can see that working with some buttons nicely, yay.

i have 'reset latch state when looping ticked' in prefs - also affects start/stop - is that a problem!?

so as it is, it's on the way but not quite the 'preview buffer we can then write' Airon has occasionally mentioned /sarc.
good stuff tho.

EDIT:
related FR - would the action 'write current values.. from cursor to end of time selection' also be rather handy to have?

[Justin]

Originally Posted by BenK-msx

related FR - would the action 'write current values.. from cursor to end of time selection' also be rather handy to have?

Custom action: "set time selection start to cursor" then write to time selection?

[BenK-msx]

Originally Posted by Justin

Custom action: "set time selection start to cursor" then write to time selection?

that is cool for single fixes, ideally don't want to clear original loop/selection as in use that would likely be a section that the user is focusing on to adjust perhaps numerous envelopes.

would have to use sws store and recall selection within custom action which i can do, but isn't so native.

just wondered! as using the latch preview seemed to lend itself to writing within selections.

edit: ( for others, not to be a douche ) "set time selection start to cursor" action = 'time selection set start point' -
as part of custom action sandwiched within a sws save and recall selection action it does work as planned in brief test.

[Mercado_Negro]

Originally Posted by franelco

+ Automation: add new Latch Preview automation mode
+ Automation: avoid resetting latches when switching from Latch Preview mode

Woo-hoo! It feels so great to be excited again with a new feature in REAPER. As they say, there's something for everyone once in a while Thank you very much, devs.

The first time I used it I thought it wasn't working as I expected but after reading BenK-msx post where he mentions the option "reset latch state when looping" I found the magic bullet.

It's working beautifully here so far:



I'll try to break it or find corner cases during the next days

[Mercado_Negro]

Justin, I have a question if you have time: I can't seem to find a way to write what I just previewed only within the time selection if envelopes are not visible. I'd rather keep "automatically add envelopes when tweaking parameters in automation write modes" disabled so lanes don't pop out.

[planetnine]

Airon should be online soon, breakfast time CET!



>

[noise_construct]

Very nice feature!

[musicbynumbers]

cool! thanks!

[airon]

But now we got it. Thank you .

First impression.
Just gave this a test run and it works very well. No bugs so far, and with the behaviours already described it's probably easy to work with.

What the changelog does not mention are some actions that were added as well:

• Automation: Set track automation mode to latch preview
• Automation: Set all tracks automation mode to latch preview
• Global automation override: All automation in latch mode

@Nicholas , in the manual you should provide details on how familiar operations from other places operate in Reaper. There are always differences, and it's a good thing to show people how those familiar things can be achieved in Reaper. People can build and modify their workflows from there.


Personally I think this mode is named and described very well. It should click for a lot more people than "Preview" only. Suggestions for changes and additions are at the bottom of this post.


Comparisons

• Protools Preview is a global modifier
  
  Reaper Preview is per track or a temporary global override. Reaper also only has Latch Preview, which is the only mode to make sense anyway.
  
  The action "Global automation override: All automation in latch preview mode" is pretty much what Protools only has. It's also the easiest way for complete free-wheeling.
  
  
• Protools has a command to Punch the Preview buffer
  
  Reaper needs to change the track mode or the global automation override to Latch mode to do exactly that.
  
  
• Protools can bypass its Preview mode and reenable it to compare changes.
  
  Reaper currently has no functionality to cover that.

Common operations

• Preview is best used globally most of the time to protect any existing data.
  
  
• After writing, how do you restore normal functionality, i.e. everything reads from the envelopes and nothing writes ?
  
  You use a trick. Use these two actions at the end of your writing/automation recording workflow:
  

  Global automation override: All automation in read mode
  Global automation override: no override (set automation modes per track)

  This "matches" out as well. You can use this to clear the Latch Preview buffer(i.e. nothing is taken over) or stop writing to any envelopes in Latch mode as well.

There are only a couple of things I would suggest be addressed in updates.

1. The Preview automation button on the TCP/MCP looks like Trim/Read. I know it's lightly blue but I can't tell that at a glance.
   
   Latch Preview is much too special for that, and nobody reads the text on the buttons when they're mixing. Strong colours are still a better indicator. Perhaps Latch with a strong contrasted border around it ? Or simply be a lot more bold with the colour.
   
   Automation mode buttons by and far look a bit like someone is afraid they might be spotted. White Tie to the dancing rescue!
   
   
2. I would suggest a different colour scheme for Preview-taken-over parameters than the WRITING colour red. Yellow and blue are not taken, but White Tie might be a better judge of colour here.
   
   Would you prefer to think "Yes, that's Preview Latch" or always think "Is that Latch, Write or Preview Latch ?".
   
   
3. Bypassing and re-enabling the buffer is a good thing to have. If implemented it also need to be indicated on the GUI. We have a couple of methods for that.
   
   As we don't have a bypass button like we do for FX, red text on a black background could be a good "Bypass" indicator for the Latch Preview button. That stands out well for the I/O button when master/parent send is deactivated. Just one idea.

Well, well. We're off to the races even better now. Thanks for taking this on fellas.

[Mercado_Negro]

I agree, a way to bypass the preview "on-the-fly" would be very useful to compare our current tweaks to what we had before.

By the way, airon have you found a way to write your tweaks within a time selection without having lanes popping out?

[airon]

Yes in a way.

I keep the Envelope Display setting "Show new envelopes in separate envelope lanes" OFF. Automation / "Automatically add envelopes when tweaking parameters in automation write modes" is on for me.

This keep the envelope popping to the track itself and they actually disappear when too many new envelopes show up because Reaper only displays them if they have enough space. I have to zoom in vertically to make them visible again.

I also have a keyboard shortcut for hiding all envelopes for all and for selected tracks, so I know how you feel .

It's not that I don't want to know when new envelopes are activated. I just don't want to be visually distracted by it and have my workflow impeded too much.

@Justin , an automation log, like we have for Undo/Redo perhaps ? It could at least document automation-related actions and activations.

@Mercado, what do you think ?

[Gass n Klang]

Will there be a preview option for the other automation modes too?

[Mercado_Negro]

Originally Posted by airon

Yes in a way.

I keep the Envelope Display setting "Show new envelopes in separate envelope lanes" OFF. Automation / "Automatically add envelopes when tweaking parameters in automation write modes" is on for me.

This keep the envelope popping to the track itself and they actually disappear when too many new envelopes show up because Reaper only displays them if they have enough space. I have to zoom in vertically to make them visible again.

I also have a keyboard shortcut for hiding all envelopes for all and for selected tracks, so I know how you feel .

It's not that I don't want to know when new envelopes are activated. I just don't want to be visually distracted by it and have my workflow impeded too much.

@Justin , an automation log, like we have for Undo/Redo perhaps ? It could at least document automation-related actions and activations.

@Mercado, what do you think ?

This is what I think: if "automatically add envelopes when tweaking parameters in automation write modes" is disabled and "allow writing automation to hidden envelopes" is enabled REAPER shouldn't display envelopes at all (track or lane) when writing.

I like the log idea but I'd like to have something like that on a live display we could dock somewhere.

[Mercado_Negro]

Originally Posted by Gass n Klang

Will there be a preview option for the other automation modes too?

What do you mean? Latch preview is a new automation mode which should be used in tandem with other modes like trim/read or read.

[Gass n Klang]

Originally Posted by Mercado_Negro

What do you mean? Latch preview is a new automation mode which should be used in tandem with other modes like trim/read or read.

I'd love to have a read preview mode that lets me move the whole automation lane with all automation points in relation. So you've got your written automation that can be moved as a whole. Ableton Live does that quite nicely. If you have an volume automation there for example, it's bypassed as soon as you grab the volume fader but does not write new points (as touch mode does). So if you decide to give 2 more db on the automated high shelf of the EQ, you just can move the gain and the whole automation lane gets moved. I think this is pretty nice.

[Mercado_Negro]

Originally Posted by Gass n Klang

I'd love to have a read preview mode that lets me move the whole automation lane with all automation points in relation. So you've got your written automation that can be moved as a whole. Ableton Live does that quite nicely. If you have an volume automation there for example, it's bypassed as soon as you grab the volume fader but does not write new points (as touch mode does). So if you decide to give 2 more db on the automated high shelf of the EQ, you just can move the gain and the whole automation lane gets moved. I think this is pretty nice.

Ah you mean trim automation. I think a momentay "suspend read" action/command could give us that. You're in read mode, select "suspend read" (r-click menu or whatever), do your tweak, select "suspend read" again. I'd use that a lot indeed because right now I have to double-click on the envelope panel to select all points so I can grab one and move everything up or down.

[amagalma]

Please fix this that broke in 5.21. Thank you!

[juliansader]

Justin & schwa,

Dare I ask if there is perhaps any good news about the MIDI editor bug that I mentioned below? (This bug is my bête noire since it rules out the use of REAPER's amazing new notation features in professional setups with multiple monitors, multiple editors and multiple tracks.)

Does "start of a release cycle" refer to v5.22, v5.30 or (gasp!) v6.00?

Originally Posted by schwa

[...]The first, non-active media items having the same editability/visibility in multiple MIDI editors, is something we can address in a future release. We considered dealing with this a few builds ago, but it is more appropriately dealt with at the start of a release cycle.

[daxliniere]

Hi guys,
Can I please get a description of what this new automation latch preview function is, how it works and what it's used for?
Is it this? http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=165978


Very curious!

[EvilDragon]

Basically in this mode you can do audition automation changes but they don't get written down.

[daxliniere]

But you can choose to write those changes only for the given time selection?
If so, this is exactly what I proposed and I'll be very happy to see it implemented.

[daxliniere]

How do we change the transition time? What about setting whether the transition is inside or outside the time selection?

[Mercado_Negro]

Originally Posted by daxliniere

Hi guys,
Can I please get a description of what this new automation latch preview function is, how it works and what it's used for?
Is it this? http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=165978


Very curious!

It's pretty much that, yes. You can see it in my GIF above: set a time selection (loop involved if you want to spend a few minutes tweaking that part), switch your track to latch preview, tweak all parameters you want and hear them in context, then use "write current values for actively-writing envelopes to time selection" to apply those changes to that selection and then you can go back to whatever automation mode you were using before (trim/read or read).

[Mercado_Negro]

Originally Posted by daxliniere

How do we change the transition time? What about setting whether the transition is inside or outside the time selection?

You can set the transition time in Options/Preferences/Editing Behavior/Automation: "Automation recording return speed". The transition always happens before the time selection (which is expected, in my opinion).

[daxliniere]

Freaking unbelievable. I'm a very happy man.

Thank you Justin & co!

[daxliniere]

Originally Posted by Mercado_Negro

You can set the transition time in Options/Preferences/Editing Behavior/Automation: "Automation recording return speed".

Great, thank you.

Originally Posted by Mercado_Negro

The transition always happens before the time selection (which is expected, in my opinion).

It should be for the 'in', but not the 'out'.

[Mercado_Negro]

Originally Posted by daxliniere

Great, thank you.



It should be for the 'in', but not the 'out'.

I forgot to write "after". It occurs before and then after the time selection.

[daxliniere]

Originally Posted by Mercado_Negro

I forgot to write "after". It occurs before and then after the time selection.

I believe it should be like this:

[daxliniere]

Hey, what's the 'commit preview' action called?

[airon]

That would be the "actively-writing" actions.

You can write the settings you collected with Latch Preview in two basic ways.

1. Writing live during playback by changing the automation mode to LATCH

2. Using the mentioned actions


Resetting the Latch Preview mode can be achieved by using the two actions I mentioned in my larger post above.

Global automation override: All automation in read mode
Global automation override: no override (set automation modes per track)

That empties the Latch Preview buffer of all the stuff you've touched and changed, without writing anything. This is a good way to reset after having written your changes with the "actively-writing" actions.

[Heb]

The automation preview is a fantastic addition!
Working well here.
Thanks devs!

[Mercado_Negro]

Originally Posted by daxliniere

I believe it should be like this:

Why? The current behavior makes more sense to me but I'd like to know your reasons.

[airon]

The time selection is good to cover the area I want the setting written to. Nothing is worse than realizing you're missing a little bit and have to overcompensate, especially if you have to zoom in to correct for it.

I would rather ask for a setting separate from the automation return time for all the automation writing actions.

10-20 ms is fine for me for writing actions, but it's way too fast for touch and matching out of latch.

[Thalamus]

It seems that, when writing the 'previewed' values to the time selection, that a small proportion of the written value is also applied to the envelope prior to, and after the selection.

This is what I am doing.

1) be in auto read mode with ReaEQ instantiated the the track.
2) define a time selection.
3) loop the time selection.
4) engage Auto Latch Preview.
5) grab, say, band 3 bell and ramp it way up to +36db or so.
6) perform 'Automation: Write current values for actively-writing envelopes to time selection'
7) perform 'Global automation override: All automation in read mode'
8) perform 'Global automation override: No override (set automation modes per track)

Observe that the +36db boost is written to the envelope in the time selection as expected. But also a small bump in the EQ band has also been written to the envelope prior to, and after the time selection.

[planetnine]

You got a toolbar and a workflow sorted out for this yet then Airon..?



>

[Mercado_Negro]

Originally Posted by Thalamus

It seems that, when writing the 'previewed' values to the time selection, that a small proportion of the written value is also applied to the envelope prior to, and after the selection.

This is what I am doing.

1) be in auto read mode with ReaEQ instantiated the the track.
2) define a time selection.
3) loop the time selection.
4) engage Auto Latch Preview.
5) grab, say, band 3 bell and ramp it way up to +36db or so.
6) perform 'Automation: Write current values for actively-writing envelopes to time selection'
7) perform 'Global automation override: All automation in read mode'
8) perform 'Global automation override: No override (set automation modes per track)

Observe that the +36db boost is written to the envelope in the time selection as expected. But also a small bump in the EQ band has also been written to the envelope prior to, and after the time selection.

I'm fine with that. If I defined a time selection is because I want all my changes to be fully applied within that part.

I agree with airon, though. A separate setting for the ramps would make more sense in this case.

[Thalamus]

Originally Posted by Mercado_Negro

I'm fine with that. If I defined a time selection is because I want all my changes to be fully applied within that part.

I agree with airon, though. A separate setting for the ramps would make more sense in this case.

I think we're maybe talking about different things here - this is not the 'ramp in/out' part, the subtle changes are made in the entire envelope area before and after the time selection.

To be clear. If the parameter is at zero prior to the selected area and I then write +36db of EQ boost to the envelope within the selected area, I will also now see non-zero values outside of the time selection area.