Old 09-18-2012, 01:23 PM   #1
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Default Studio flooring: Carpet's, Tiles or wood?

Studio flooring: Carpet's, Tiles or wood?

What is the best option?
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Old 09-18-2012, 01:29 PM   #2
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If you want to kill the high end without doing much else, put down some carpet

Re. wood/tiles etc. as I understand, it depends on thickness, how you lay it, i.e. what kind of cushioning (if any) it's on or if it's completely coupled. But getting that deep into it may not be what you're after? The 'best' option is dependent on so many other things that have not been mentioned.

My default reply to 'acoustics' questions is 'go ask the question in a more appropriate forum'
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Old 09-18-2012, 01:39 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by timlloyd View Post
If you want to kill the high end without doing much else, put down some carpet

Re. wood/tiles etc. as I understand, it depends on thickness, how you lay it, i.e. what kind of cushioning (if any) it's on or if it's completely coupled. But getting that deep into it may not be what you're after? The 'best' option is dependent on so many other things that have not been mentioned.

My default reply to 'acoustics' questions is 'go ask the question in a more appropriate forum'
Thanks Tim.
Sorry if it was in the wrong forum.

It seems that tiles might give it that echo-ie chamber sound.
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Old 09-18-2012, 01:49 PM   #4
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Default floors always bounce sound, right?

Someone smart said to me that humans are evolutionarily engineered to HEAR sound bouncing up off the ground, but NOT to hear sound bouncing from above (air).

If that is true, then a good (human) sound environment will be one where there is NOT reflection/bouncing off the ceiling, but where there IS reflection/bouncing off the floor.

Is that wacky?
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Old 09-18-2012, 02:16 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by msore View Post
Someone smart said to me that humans are evolutionarily engineered to HEAR sound bouncing up off the ground, but NOT to hear sound bouncing from above (air).

If that is true, then a good (human) sound environment will be one where there is NOT reflection/bouncing off the ceiling, but where there IS reflection/bouncing off the floor.

Is that wacky?
Does not sounds wacky at all.
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Old 09-18-2012, 02:18 PM   #6
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Thanks Tim.
Sorry if it was in the wrong forum.
Well in reaper-ville this is the most appropriate forum. But what I meant was that reaper-ville isn't the most appropriate place to ask questions about acoustic design, either for professional high budget or home-studio low budget scenarios.

There are forums moderated by professional studio designers that you could visit instead - chances are, you don't even need to ask questions, because other people already have.

- gearslutz acoustics forums (yes, gearslutz )
-- look for posts by Northward, avare, DanDan, jhbrandt, Rod Gervais, Glenn Kuras, Ethan Winer ...

- http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/
- http://hosted.comm100.com/Forum/Stud...x?siteid=59187

If you want reliable answers from people with years of successful acoustic design experience and credibility, 'elsewhere' is the place to be ...

Quote:
It seems that tiles might give it that echo-ie chamber sound.
On their own they wouldn't; tiles + bad design decisions could (such as lots of flat parallel surfaces with low HF absorption).

Btw, are you asking about listening room or recording room design? Very different beasts. Search for images of commercial studio rooms, and note how often you see carpet
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Old 09-18-2012, 03:34 PM   #7
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FWIW I went with wood over a decoupled concrete slab and a big piece of carpet (smaller than the room) that can be rolled up if necessary. I also have the walls and floors treated.
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Old 09-18-2012, 06:28 PM   #8
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Wood


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Old 09-18-2012, 06:36 PM   #9
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WOOD !!!

carpet................. NO !@!@#!

Tile ... .............yikes!

WOOD FTW !!!
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Old 09-18-2012, 06:50 PM   #10
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Put down wood and then buy yourself some rugs so you can adjust the reverb time as you like.
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Old 09-18-2012, 06:57 PM   #11
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Put down wood and then buy yourself some rugs so you can adjust the reverb time as you like.
every womb needs a rug
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Old 09-18-2012, 10:34 PM   #12
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Put down wood and then buy yourself some rugs so you can adjust the reverb time as you like.
*adjust high frequency decay times only* - not 'reverb time'
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Old 09-18-2012, 11:48 PM   #13
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I'm really looking for the answer for this as well.
Need to update my post
http://geir-music.blogspot.no/2012/0...t-3-floor.html
and give floor-cover a second thought.
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Old 09-19-2012, 12:12 AM   #14
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Quote:
I cannot emphasize enough the importance of a reflective floor for achieving a natural sound when recording acoustic instruments.
Ethan Winer: http://www.ethanwiner.com/acoustics....ve%20or%20dead
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Old 09-19-2012, 08:59 AM   #15
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Always tricky if you record and monitor/mix in the same space.

I have a small room and wound up putting a series of layers of different absorbent materials under a floor of wood panelling about 20mm thick. I then have rugs that allow me to sort of tune the reflections as required.
A compromise but it works. Sorta.
I also did the same with my stud walls & ceiling, which are semi floating and stuffed to the gills with RW3 between the sheetrock and acoustic/thermal insulation blocks that make up the internal walls.

Even with very little bass trapping in a small room it is amazing how this construction evened out the peaks and troughs.
Mind you I do have a lot of full bookshelves and soft furnishing!
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Old 09-19-2012, 11:49 AM   #16
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Planning to mix and record in same room here as well.

What kind of wood-floor do you recommend as a budget-friendly solution?
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Old 09-19-2012, 03:40 PM   #17
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I did mine the hard way. bought precut and tongue & grooved Pirana pine board which I seasoned in the room for six months after delivery and then laid it on a series of joists.

Did the dining room first and the studio last. Studio is a LOT better than the dining room as I got better at fitting and laying the wood as I went along! Not recommended for the faint of heart, but very cheap and ten years on I still have a decent looking wood floor.
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Old 09-19-2012, 04:32 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by G-Sun View Post
Planning to mix and record in same room here as well.

What kind of wood-floor do you recommend as a budget-friendly solution?
Real wood's going to be fairly expensive and although it might be a little better sound wise, you might want to consider laminate flooring.

https://www.floorstoyourhome.com/dis...FdEWMgoddzIAyg

It's easy to install (no nails or glue) and doesn't look all that bad.

The important thing is if you use it, plan on having a base board at least 1/2" thick and leave a 1/4" gap between the flooring and the walls.

You'll also want at least a 10" chop saw or a table saw.
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Old 09-19-2012, 07:02 PM   #19
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The important thing is if you use it, plan on having a base board at least 1/2" thick and leave a 1/4" gap between the flooring and the walls.
Would that be to eliminate transfer of vibrations? ??
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Old 09-20-2012, 12:37 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tod View Post
Real wood's going to be fairly expensive and although it might be a little better sound wise, you might want to consider laminate flooring.

https://www.floorstoyourhome.com/dis...FdEWMgoddzIAyg

It's easy to install (no nails or glue) and doesn't look all that bad.

The important thing is if you use it, plan on having a base board at least 1/2" thick and leave a 1/4" gap between the flooring and the walls.

You'll also want at least a 10" chop saw or a table saw.
Thank you Tod!
Yes, I'm familiar with laminate, but that's the fake one. Or are you thinking of what we call parkett -made of real wood? I'm not to big fan of laminate sound-wise -reflective yes, but has this hard quality. I'd might choose linolium over laminate I think. But, laminate is budget-friendly
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Old 09-20-2012, 12:43 AM   #21
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I paid 400uk pounds for enough flooring to do the studio and the dining room outside. A total area of about 3m x 4m studio and 6m x 4m dining room.

If you decide to use laminate or vinyl, make sure you use some cellular foam between the floor base and the laminate/vinyl.
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Old 09-20-2012, 04:09 AM   #22
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If you choose wood or vinyl, make sure you always keep a rug or mat under the computer chair, or else you're going to screw up the flooring big time.
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Old 09-20-2012, 10:34 AM   #23
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From research I did prior to building my new mastering control room, it was clearly stated that rugs have an unpredictable acoustic response, and was NOT recommended.

Having a concrete floor, as I do, I wanted to put something nice down.

The issue I found with parquet type flooring was the resonance that it created, just walking on it ... sounded like a huge marimba !

I ended up going with a vinyl laminate flooring [looks like a hardwood floor]. Best money [very little in comparison] that I spent. It not only looks great, but it has just enough cushioning to take the 'edge' off the hard concrete, very easy to clean, AND, my chair does NOT get stuck

It was very easy to install, as the product had optional gluing [which due to the large room, was not need. We used double-sided fiberglass tape at key locations [like the door threshold]. Zero issues.

And down the road, should I ever want to change the look, it'd be easy to pull up and replace.

If needed, carpet patches could be laid down when needed.
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Old 09-20-2012, 10:44 AM   #24
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Thanks for the input RJHollins!
Vinyl is definitely an option here.
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Old 09-20-2012, 05:13 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by G-Sun View Post
Thank you Tod!
Yes, I'm familiar with laminate, but that's the fake one. Or are you thinking of what we call parkett -made of real wood? I'm not to big fan of laminate sound-wise -reflective yes, but has this hard quality. I'd might choose linolium over laminate I think. But, laminate is budget-friendly
Actually there's not that much difference between wood, cement and other hard type srufaces when it comes to reflectivity. Here's an article by Ethan Winer concerning all this. In all honesty I have a great deal of respect for Ethan but I don't take everything he says as gospel. Still, in the absence of much else out there, and just from my own experience I don't think he's to far removed from the truth.

http://www.realtraps.com/art_surfaces.htm

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Originally Posted by msore View Post
Would that be to eliminate transfer of vibrations? ??
No, it's because the laminate flooring expands. They actually recommend 3/8" but I used 1/4" and it seems to be fine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RJHollins View Post
From research I did prior to building my new mastering control room, it was clearly stated that rugs have an unpredictable acoustic response, and was NOT recommended.

Having a concrete floor, as I do, I wanted to put something nice down.

The issue I found with parquet type flooring was the resonance that it created, just walking on it ... sounded like a huge marimba !

I ended up going with a vinyl laminate flooring [looks like a hardwood floor]. Best money [very little in comparison] that I spent. It not only looks great, but it has just enough cushioning to take the 'edge' off the hard concrete, very easy to clean, AND, my chair does NOT get stuck

It was very easy to install, as the product had optional gluing [which due to the large room, was not need. We used double-sided fiberglass tape at key locations [like the door threshold]. Zero issues.

And down the road, should I ever want to change the look, it'd be easy to pull up and replace.

If needed, carpet patches could be laid down when needed.
So RJ, was that the flexible non-locking vinyl flooring you installed? Or was it the stiffer interlocking type laminate flooring with a pad underneath? I ask because they are very different, not only in how they are installed, but what the condition of the sub-floor or underfloor has to be. I would also think they would give you different results as far as frequency absorption is concerned.

Here are a couple of links that have videos on how these two are installed.

This is the laminate, they don't use the padding underneath but you get the idea.

https://www.floorstoyourhome.com/vin...-together.html

This one's the newer vinyl type flexible flooring.

https://www.floorstoyourhome.com/vin.../glueless.html
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Old 09-20-2012, 05:56 PM   #26
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The stuff I bought is by ArmStrong ... I'll track down the exact code if you like.

After hitting 6 different flooring/carpet stores, I ended up at Home Depot. The stuff comes on a 12 ft wide roll. Kinda 'rubbery-ish' ... cuts great with a standard utility knife. There was no padding needed for this ... built right into the material ... and is about 1/4" thick.

At first, I was disappointed in NOT buying an 'interlocked' type flooring ... but I can honestly say, after read a thread from another studio builder over at 'the studio designing forum' [NOT GS] ... when he had to rip out his newly installed parquet floor, replacing it with laminate ... it was a perfect substitute ... and it cost about $100 in materials to do a 12x16 room.

Going to end up doing my entire basement with this stuff ! NEVER have to paint a concrete floor again!

Let me know if you need a stock number.
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Old 09-21-2012, 12:02 AM   #27
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Actually there's not that much difference between wood, cement and other hard type srufaces when it comes to reflectivity. Here's an article by Ethan Winer concerning all this. In all honesty I have a great deal of respect for Ethan but I don't take everything he says as gospel. Still, in the absence of much else out there, and just from my own experience I don't think he's to far removed from the truth.

http://www.realtraps.com/art_surfaces.htm
Thanks a lot Tod!
That's really a useful link. As a cello-player Ethan should know a lot of what's needed for this topic. But I miss the player/ experience/ feeling -point of view.
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Old 09-21-2012, 01:05 AM   #28
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http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/vi...hp?f=2&t=17820
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Old 09-21-2012, 11:09 AM   #29
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That is THE place !

Things get very busy there. Remember, it's a learning place ... you must do your homework. The guidance is priceless.

I was extremely fortunate to have 'Gullfo' there at the time [lately he's been 'cameo'].

Stuart [Soundman2020] is a wealth of information, and has been handling the bulk of threads.

[edit]

Followed your link G-Spot at the JS site.
Be patient ... worth it !

I'll post over on your thread ... but I did use GreenGlue in my build.
Correct, it is NOT an adhesive!

I recall that it was only needed on one of the surfaces ... however, flooring may present a unique situation.

I used it for the walls and ceiling. I think it was definately worth the expense.

Last edited by RJHollins; 09-21-2012 at 11:16 AM.
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Old 09-22-2012, 06:30 PM   #30
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Wood with a rug.
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Old 09-23-2012, 11:26 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by RJHollins View Post
That is THE place !

Things get very busy there. Remember, it's a learning place ... you must do your homework. The guidance is priceless.

I was extremely fortunate to have 'Gullfo' there at the time [lately he's been 'cameo'].

Stuart [Soundman2020] is a wealth of information, and has been handling the bulk of threads.

[edit]

Followed your link G-Spot at the JS site.
Be patient ... worth it !

I'll post over on your thread ... but I did use GreenGlue in my build.
Correct, it is NOT an adhesive!

I recall that it was only needed on one of the surfaces ... however, flooring may present a unique situation.

I used it for the walls and ceiling. I think it was definately worth the expense.
Thanks! Yes, really valuable help there
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Old 09-30-2012, 10:08 AM   #32
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Thank you for all the feedback
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Old 10-03-2012, 11:53 PM   #33
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Let me know if you need a stock number.
Right here please!
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Old 10-04-2012, 03:01 AM   #34
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Right here please!
OK !

Here's the link from Home Depot.

http://www.homedepot.com/Flooring-Vi...&storeId=10051

MFG Brand Name : Armstrong
MFG Model # : 33400411
MFG Part # : 33400411

Armstrong 12 ft. Wide Sentinel Breezewood Residential Sheet Vinyl
Model # 33400411
Store SKU # 224645

Store SO SKU # 241644

$8.82 /SY-Square yard
comes on a 12ft wide roll ... cut to length
gluing optional

We used 'fiberglass' tape at 'key' locations. No problems!

Remember, you have to let it lay for a couple days to let it settle and stretch out!

Hope that helps
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Old 10-11-2012, 05:01 AM   #35
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Default Types of flooring options

Though wood does look elegant and gives you the stylish look but I would recommend Tiles. They are a better option because of the fact that they are cheaper and solve your purpose. They are easy to clean and you can replace them easily when you wish to. If you go for wood then you will have to be extra careful about the areas under chairs and tables. You need to keep mats below the computer tables and chairs in case of wooden floor.
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Old 10-11-2012, 09:56 AM   #36
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"The normal recommendation is bare concrete"
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Old 10-11-2012, 11:08 PM   #37
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Default Re- Types of flooring options

I totally agree with the concrete being a good option. It does solve the main purpose but it is very basic with fewer design options. Tiles have an advantage of being appealing to the eyes other than solving the flooring purpose of course. Tiles also come in various styles and colors. You can create multiple patterns with tiles. Just check out few styles at
http://www.rbcarpets.com/portfolio/
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Old 10-12-2012, 12:56 AM   #38
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"The normal recommendation is bare concrete"
Stuart
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Concrete flooring is a perfect base ... 'bare' concrete flooring is 'tough of the tootsies'.

Even though the vinyl flooring I put down is only about a 1/4" thick ... it is great to walk on, and my chair rolls smooth without getting stuck. It is also super easy to vacuum and clean, and has all the look of a hardwood floor ... without ANY resonance

This stuff worked out so nice that we did the rest of the basement. I never, ever want to paint a floor again
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Old 10-16-2012, 10:53 PM   #39
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Default Types of flooring

Vinyl flooring is a good option and its cleaning is indeed not such a trouble. But with tiles in place, cleaning requires minimal effort. And the shine of the tiles is an added benefit. Tiles are very easy to look after. So if you can get an endearing look with hardly any effort in maintaining it, why not go for tiles?
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Old 10-25-2012, 08:52 AM   #40
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My wife and I compromised. Wood/laminate, across two rooms.

oops shoulda rotated. Well you can jest tern yer heed.

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