Old 03-20-2019, 03:35 AM   #441
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Area selection can make some bits of your editing less complicated visually. It took me a while to get over not having this easier method of range selection.


We need to keep in mind that the multi-tool of Protools is just as complicated as what we can do in Reaper, though Reaper can go much further. Protools does make it easier to have just an area selection. It's the old single-tool workflow you can call up with hitting the key F7. Go back to multi-tool with a combination of two of F6 to F8. That's complicated too to be honest. It is less complicated than what Reaper offers with its actions to change mouse modifiers. How many use those ?


The real downside to Reapers current capabilities for me is the complete lack of multi-track selection of envelopes. It's also very tedious and slow to get the same parameter to show up on all the tracks. Protools solved this by holding a modifier while you picked an envelope to show from the dropdown.


My suggestion would be to refine the visual display of the item+time selection method. Highlight more of what the effective selection is, as hard as that may seem with all the colouring options we have.
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Old 03-20-2019, 09:26 AM   #442
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The real downside to Reapers current capabilities for me is the complete lack of multi-track selection of envelopes. It's also very tedious and slow to get the same parameter to show up on all the tracks. Protools solved this by holding a modifier while you picked an envelope to show from the dropdown.
This was indeed a big downside of REAPER's pre-AI envelopes. However, I think Cockos is trying not-so-subtly to get everyone to convert all old-school envelopes to AIs, and with AIs, multi-track selection is possible.


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My suggestion would be to refine the visual display of the item+time selection method. Highlight more of what the effective selection is, as hard as that may seem with all the colouring options we have.
Could you explain a bit more?
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Old 03-20-2019, 09:48 AM   #443
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However, I think Cockos is trying not-so-subtly to get everyone to convert all old-school envelopes to AIs
i don't believe that is their point. (Although they ain't do anything about it .. surprisingly to me ...)
But assuming it is true that is the problem I referenced early: AIs should be ment to be used when they are useful, otherwise it clutters the project with many steps involved. This makes AIs a enemy feature instead of being a useful one.

Let area selection do it's job and AIs to be used when they are useful. Ais weren't ment to copy paste envelopes. They are ment to be useful containers of envelopes to be used when they are friendly, handy and precious.

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and with AIs, multi-track selection is possible
Is possible, but many steps involved and clutters the project. Area selection is basically one drag and a drop to copy ANYTHING to anywhere (single line or all including item, envelopes or AIs ..)

Last edited by deeb; 03-20-2019 at 11:01 AM.
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Old 03-21-2019, 02:19 AM   #444
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this is a 10 years old version : note that by some reason the gif capture displays the cursor to a normal pointer (don't know why),
so have in mind that mouse on over area selection becomes an hand, which can be perceived has drag me (moving or copying with modifier), and when mouse over edges to redimension area selection is also different mouse cursor, perceived as redimension me ... )






redimensioning or (flip) area selection according to bar, beat or quantize (1/64 defined in the right side)







and reordering lanes (out of topic but still ... ):





another one more general (just in case ...):



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Old 03-21-2019, 10:55 PM   #445
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i can find a way to record all this in video, so that everything is more perceivable if any one interested (coff coff devs)
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Old 03-22-2019, 03:48 AM   #446
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Deeb !
Your Cubase gifs are just fine, showing Area Selection principle.

I am very hoping Area Selection will come natively to Reaper V6.
I am abit done with thirdparty scripty workarounds TBH (respect to the makers though).

Warm Regards.
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Old 03-22-2019, 09:20 PM   #447
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Hi vanhaze ! It s so damn frustrating the scripts, the prayer , Devs .. the silence so thanks at least I know is perceivable
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Old 03-23-2019, 01:38 AM   #448
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personally i don't need area selection feature, but i understand, why you, people, need it so much, it's one of those basic features, that every DAW should have.
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Old 03-23-2019, 11:14 AM   #449
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and clutters the project.
The clutter of lots of AIs is probably the main (perhaps only) disadvantage of the REAPER way of doing things. However, the clutter also has two crucial advantages that more than make up for sometimes having to glue AIs:

* Pooled AIs: If you duplicate automation via AIs, you can at any time tweak one of the AIs, and the rest will automatically update.

* Recover previous envelope: When you copy automation into an existing AI, the existing AI will be trimmed (or moved into a separate lane). If you later decide that the original envelope shape was better, you don't need to search through your undo history. Just expand the trimmed AI back to its original length!
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Old 03-23-2019, 10:01 PM   #450
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The clutter of lots of AIs is probably the main (perhaps only) disadvantage of the REAPER way of doing things.
You are comparing Bananas with Potatoes. They are not comparable. They are different tools for different purposes. I said that AI clutters project when they ared being used to do what should be done by Area Selection. The only thing they have in common is that both deal with automation, but with completely different purposes.

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However, the clutter also has two crucial advantages that more than make up for sometimes having to glue AIs:

* Pooled AIs: If you duplicate automation via AIs, you can at any time tweak one of the AIs, and the rest will automatically update.

* Recover previous envelope: When you copy automation into an existing AI, the existing AI will be trimmed (or moved into a separate lane). If you later decide that the original envelope shape was better, you don't need to search through your undo history. Just expand the trimmed AI back to its original length!
it's not really an advantage, it's their function, and they should be used solely for this purpose when they are useful and friendly, otherwise it clutters project and workflow ...

Area Selection gives power to AI (and complement in terms of envelopes), but it has it's own purpose:
"Area selection is basically one drag and a drop to copy ANYTHING to anywhere (single line or all including item, envelopes or AIs ..), whille keeping the inner time block so that we don't have to be concerned with strange events timings, it's a block that takes care of it by us) .."

and gives extra possibilities like:
- Area selection -> Insert AIs
- Area selection -> Duplicate (AI and/or MI)
- Area selection -> Duplicate pooled (AI and/or MI)
- Area selection -> Select contained items(AI and/or MI)
- Area selection -> Select exclusively contained items (AI and/or MI)
- Area selection -> Glue (AI and/or MI)
- Area selection -> Group (AI and/or MI)
- Area selection -> Delete (AI and/or MI)

and manny more .. How can you still compare Area selection with AI's?
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Old 03-25-2019, 09:59 AM   #451
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Chiming in, as this is my most passionate crusade.

The biggest killer with lack of Area Selection is the visual disconnect. There's no simpler paradigm than to draw a square around stuff you want to manipulate on a Grid of all things!

In Excel, imagine the face-melt if you could only reliably copy rows of cells at a time. It's a grid, so naturally selection works in both the x and y direction.

That's what it feels like trying to manipulate things in Reaper -- all the "stuff" is 2-dimensional but our manipulative tools are 1-dimensional or workarounds that can kinda-armwavily do 2-dimensional things.

Last edited by ferropop; 03-25-2019 at 10:11 AM.
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Old 03-25-2019, 10:10 AM   #452
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This "not honouring the grid" thing manifests itself in other ways too. The lack of a crosshair option -- again, we're on a grid, so crosshairs are literally the most obvious and natural way to see with precision where you are on the grid -- somehow not a thing. How difficult would the lines of code be to draw a horizontal and vertical line around the mouse cursor?

I had to beg for guidelines when dragging media into the project, because without them you were basically guessing where you were dropping media items. It's still not perfect, and crosshairs would have so easily solved this, but I guess we pick our battles.
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Old 03-25-2019, 10:20 AM   #453
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So yes -- AI have a very specific purpose - to capture a "thing" and let you manipulate it (copy/paste/cut/duplicate/scale/loop). Just like audio/midi items, they come with that purpose, otherwise we would have just stuck with Analog Tape Machines.

And yes AI can be used to half-assedly make up for the drastic shortcomings of not having area selection, but they should absolutely not be a replacement for it.
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Old 04-11-2019, 03:49 PM   #454
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Default Bypassing underlying envelope disables 'connect to the underlying envelope'

Another unexpected behavior when using AI...

Bypassing underlying envelope disables OPTION 'connect to the underlying envelope'

1) Enable, "Options: Automation items connect to the underlying envelope on both sides".

2) Create an envelope.

3a) Select envelope and run action, "Envelope: Bypass underlying envelope outside of automation items".
3b) Run the action again.

4) Now move the AI. Notice the AI is no longer connected to underlying envelope.

To fix: Select envelope and run action, "Envelope: Automation items connect to the underlying envelope on both sides". You can now toggle the "Envelope: Bypass underlying envelope outside of automation items" action and the AI will stay connected to the underlying envelope.

v5.973 & v5.974+dev0411 / Win7 / x64

Last edited by Edgemeal; 05-24-2019 at 08:02 AM.
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Old 04-14-2019, 07:12 AM   #455
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vanhaze View Post
Deeb !
Your Cubase gifs are just fine, showing Area Selection principle.

I am very hoping Area Selection will come natively to Reaper V6.
I am abit done with thirdparty scripty workarounds TBH (respect to the makers though).

Warm Regards.
What are the names of the scripts please? The ones that allow area selection workarounds? I can't find them.
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Old 04-15-2019, 03:52 AM   #456
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowellben View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by vanhaze View Post
I am abit done with thirdparty scripty workarounds TBH (respect to the makers though).
What are the names of the scripts please? The ones that allow area selection workarounds? I can't find them.
vanhaze was probably referring to my "js_Area Selection" scripts, which can be seen here.

In the time since these scripts were written, we got Automation Items and the bugs in the native "Copy/Duplicate selected area" actions were fixed, so the scripts are largely obsolete. By using native actions (and mouse modifiers), it is now easy to copy/duplicate multiple automation lanes, even from areas without media items.

For a smooth workflow it is useful to have all automation in Automation Items, similar to how all media are in Media Items.

For more advanced multi-area selection (and if you're willing to use scripts), keep your fingers crossed for the new Area(51) script.

Last edited by juliansader; 04-15-2019 at 04:00 AM.
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Old 04-16-2019, 05:19 AM   #457
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vanhaze was probably referring to my "js_Area Selection" scripts, which can be seen here.
Julian quick question. I just opened ReaPack for the first time in a while. Why do you have so many obsolete scripts? Can every single one of these scripts be found elsewhere or if I remove them will I lose all functionality of them? They sound amazing. Have they been bundled or re-released in a different script? Thank you.

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Old 04-16-2019, 12:12 PM   #458
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Julian quick question. I just opened ReaPack for the first time in a while. Why do you have so many obsolete scripts? Can every single one of these scripts be found elsewhere or if I remove them will I lose all functionality of them? They sound amazing. Have they been bundled or re-released in a different script? Thank you.
They have all been upgraded and re-released with names starting with "js_Mouse editing".

For about two months, these obsolete scripts would just pop up a notification of the new scripts and new features. After giving users some time to update, I recently deleted the old scripts to reduce clutter in ReaPack.
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Old 04-16-2019, 12:14 PM   #459
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They have all been upgraded and re-released with names starting with "js_Mouse editing".

For about two months, these obsolete scripts would just pop up a notification of the new scripts and new features. After giving users some time to update, I recently deleted the old scripts to reduce clutter in ReaPack.
Wow. Really? All the scripts in my screenshot are upgraded and are js_mouse editing?

Cuz I only see a few? what about the other non mouses? They are obsolete and still usable? like the CC ones

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Old 04-25-2019, 03:46 AM   #460
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Cuz I only see a few? what about the other non mouses? They are obsolete and still usable? like the CC ones
The older versions of the scripts still work as before and are still usable, but the new versions are definitely better. (You can see some GIFs of the new scripts in action in the MIDI Editor Tools thread.)

The new scripts are fewer in number, since each of them can bundle several of the old scripts. For example, previously there were four "Draw ramp" scripts:
* Draw sine
* Draw sine, chasing start value
* Draw linear
* Draw linear, chasing start value

All four are now combined into a single "js_Mouse editing - Draw ramp" script, and mouse clicks are used to switch between the different modes while the script is running.
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Old 04-25-2019, 07:16 AM   #461
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bug with importing Automation items

https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=220104
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Old 05-10-2019, 10:11 AM   #462
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Default Reduce points of Automation Item

Reduce points of Automation Item,

When using mouse on scrollbar the envelope points are re-drawn incorrectly when you release the mouse button after setting the value. Note, points are drawn correctly when entering the value via textbox in the dialog.

Win7 / REAPER v5.977 and +dev0509 / x64




EDIT: Fixed in v5.978+dev0513 - May 13 2019

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