Old 03-10-2019, 02:24 PM   #1
g33zrj1m
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Default Rendered mixdown issues

Hello,

I've been a Reaper user for several years, but don't think I've posted on here before. I did a search on this forum for problems with rendered audio, and got a few hints, but I'm still having some difficulties...

Basically, what happens is that I get my project mixed so it sounds good during the playback, but when I render it to a wav file or mp3 it sounds awful. Most of the highs are gone and the whole thing is a bassy, muddy mess.

I read on a thread here about rendering in normal playback speed rather than the faster methods, and that did improve the quality some.

I also limited the use of any fx in the master bus, which also helped. But still, the end result is pretty muddy and indistinct. Where the playback of all the tracks running in Reaper is great.

I do have several nested folders of from 4 to 10 tracks each. Would it be better to render them first, delete the old folders and then try that? That's my next approach if nothing else. Haven't had this problem much in the past, but I don't usually have over 20 tracks of audio, either. Also, all of the tracks are acidized wav files except for some vocals and guitar tracks. Not sure if that would make a difference or not.

Any help is appreciated!

Thanks,

Jim

Last edited by g33zrj1m; 03-10-2019 at 03:18 PM.
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Old 03-10-2019, 03:12 PM   #2
ashcat_lt
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If those acidized things are being time or pitch stretched, you might have different quality settings for playback than when rendering.

If you have things in Monitor FX that change the sound, those won't get rendered. You should still hear their effect if you bring the file back into Reaper, but listening with other apps it will definitely sound different.

If you have tracks sending directly to your hardware outs, when you play the project you're hearing the Master mix mixed with those direct sends, and the render will definitely be different.

Can't think of too many other things that would cause a render to sound different from the project playback.
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Old 03-10-2019, 03:27 PM   #3
nofish
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As ashcat mentioned already, did you try reimporting the rendered file in Reaper and listen there, still sounds different?

This way could be ruled out at least it's a weird audio player setting or similar.
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Old 03-10-2019, 03:47 PM   #4
g33zrj1m
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ashcat,

Thanks for the reply.

I did mess with the tempo a bit on those acidized files, but before rendering I made sure it was all back to the original tempo. Sometimes it's easier to sing a part if I can change the pitch up or down a bit beforehand. But it's back to where it should be.

I don't have any monitor fx. In fact, I took off a lot of fx just to see if that was the problem. It helped, but didn't fix it completely. So now, all I have is some fx on three vocal tracks (Waves Tune Live, a compressor, a reverb, and on 2 of the tracks I'm also using a pitch shifter). That's all I have.

The only outs I have are the main outs to my monitors. The rendering is completely in the box and at 1:1 speed to a 24/44100 .wav file

Do you think 14 (total) tracks in nested folders could be the problem? I've never used that many together before. But the only reason I do so is so that they take up less room and I can use just one fader to control the volume of all the nested tracks. No fx on it.

Thanks again,

Jim
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Old 03-10-2019, 03:59 PM   #5
g33zrj1m
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Nofish,

Sorry, I didn't see that in ashcat's reply. So, I just tried playing it in Reaper. Still sounded a bit bassy on one render and the output was very low on another (not normalized).

I guess I should mention that I am using Audacity to check the wav files, but I've also played them back on Media Player and VLC. There IS a difference between players and then when I make mp3's there is even more "mud". Audacity has the best playback, with Media player second and VLC last. At least in this test.

Thanks,

Jim
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Old 03-10-2019, 06:50 PM   #6
nofish
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g33zrj1m View Post
Nofish,

Sorry, I didn't see that in ashcat's reply.
My bad, he didn't say it explicitly, I was just relating to the monitor FX he mentioned.

Quote:
So, I just tried playing it in Reaper. Still sounded a bit bassy on one render and the output was very low on another (not normalized).
So are you saying different renders of the same project sound differently?
If that's the case only thing I can think of is an FX acting up.
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Old 03-11-2019, 08:42 AM   #7
g33zrj1m
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nofish,

I'm starting to think the same... that it's FX related. I said in the previous post that I only had a couple fx loaded, but I was mistaken... I was using CLA Mixbus on several tracks and those Waves fx are pretty CPU intensive. (I have a dedicated recording rig that's 3.2 GHz, 8 core, 16 G RAM... so I don't think my computer is stressed, but ???)

Even so, though, it seems that a DAW's usefulness can't be blamed on using FX, if it runs fine and sounds great just listening to the mix. Why would rendering cause a mix to sound so bad? I'm wondering if there is something else I'm doing that's messing things up, since this doesn't seem to be a common problem. The hardest problems to fix are the ones we create ourselves!

Jim
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Old 03-11-2019, 06:02 PM   #8
g33zrj1m
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For what it's worth, I have pretty much found the problems, or at least some ways to make it sound better.

1. I had 10 tracks of stuff with FX in nested folders. So I rendered those folders down to stereo stems and eliminated all that extra processing.

2. Rendered the mix down to stereo the normal (Reaper) method, then also did one using the "direct or bounce" feature. They sounded the same to me.

3. When playing back in Reaper, they sound much better than other players. I found out that on Windows Media Player I had all of the enhancements turned off, but I had it set up for "normal speakers" which somehow engaged the stereo enhancement feature. Turned that off and much of the extra bass was gone. Audacity still sounds better than Media Player, but now I can use both. Didn't try VLC this time.

Thanks to those who gave advice, it did help!

Jim
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