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Old 06-27-2018, 05:53 PM   #1
Nizhny Tagil
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Default Reasampl0matic5000 templates for some free drum sample kits.

These days I took some time to try and organize some drum kits in Reasamplomatic.
I think Reasamplomatic could be the best free sampler for drums. I've tried a few and to me it's the most flexible and feature-packed.
However, I'm not sure if I have properly learned how to organize multi-sampled kits with it. So far I have only used very limited drum kits, but since there are so many free ones around that have more layers, I thought it could be useful to try and map them properly.

There are many mappings in the sfz format around for these kits, but I honestly think they're very clumsy to use.
In order to have multiple outputs for mixing different pieces separately there's basically no other way than loading the whole sfz program in a single track per every single instrument.

Here are the track templates for Reaper.

Big Mono: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gC3...ew?usp=sharing. Samples from: http://www.analoguedrums.com/products/big-mono/

Ruffrider: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1HJd...ew?usp=sharing. Samples from: http://www.michaelkingston.fi/kingst...ruffrider.html


I've tried to stick to the GM standard as closely as possible because I like to try different kits and swap them as needed without touching the MIDI data.
For the Big Mono kit the samples are labelled very carefully so it's easy to map them.
The Ruffrider kit is harder to map because the samples are not named as carefully and the kit has a less straightforward layout. I had to rely more on my ears to figure out the right velocity layers, to which notes assign every piece etc.

It would be very useful if some drum programming expert could take a look at these and tell me if and what I did wrong.
For example, I wasn't sure how to set the polyphony, because especially for the cymbals there may be a benefit in letting the notes ring out even if there are contiguous hits. Besides, if I set it any higher than one I have noticed some glitches.

I had also put others in another topic: https://forum.cockos.com/showthread....52#post1997752.

Thanks!

Last edited by Nizhny Tagil; 06-28-2018 at 01:33 PM.
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Old 06-27-2018, 08:11 PM   #2
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Hi Nizhny, I took a look at the "Big Mono" and it's not too bad.

I think you could have named each instance of RS5K a little better, shorter names are much easier to understand. Based on your names I'd never have known what toms are which.

Same for the "note names" in the midi editor. Long names are hard to see and understand.

Also I would bypass the "JS Midi velocity and timing humanizer", when I tried playing with my keyboard I couldn't figure out why I was getting the same sample no matter what velocity I played at.

On your round robins (RRs) you should untick the "Remove played notes from FX chain MIDI stream" on the last RR, the ones that are 100%.

I see you got the "JS MIDI choke" to work which is great, I've never been able to get that to work.

I'm not sure if the ride is labeled bell, but it sounds a little like a ride cymbal. I'd give that a "Max voices" of 3 or 4, otherwise some notes can get cut off prematurely.

Other than that, good job, and if you want to check it out, here's a thread with more information about RS5K, the first post especially explains the RRs and the velocity intensity (Min vol) for RS5K.

https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=131531
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Old 06-28-2018, 02:50 AM   #3
Nizhny Tagil
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Thanks a lot Tod! I'll fix everything you said.
I've already read that topic; in fact, I've used your chart to set the probability for each round-robin, otherwise it would have taken me a lot to figure out the math!

Just a couple of things.
In Reaper's user guide it says to enable both "Round-robin" and "Remove played notes from FX chain MIDI stream" for each round-robin (also the ones with 100% probability) and I thought that made sense because like that only one sample gets triggered every time. So I'm not sure about that.

The ride is a cymbal, I think. I have assigned it to note 51 for the GM layout, which is the regular ride and not the ride bell.

I'm very confused about the polyphony. As I've said, the cymbals sound better with a "Max Polyphony" higher than one, but when playing fast hits there is a weird glitch where notes seem to play that are not there.
I can't explain it very well, you should try and reproduce it.
I'll make a demo if I can so I can show you exactly what I mean.

Thank you very much, for the meantime.

EDIT: I had forgot about the ride bell.
Yes, there are ride cymbal and ride bell. They're specifically labelled like that by the authors.
By the way, the authors of the library also say that it doesn't contain round-robin samples, but it does contain left hand and right hand hits per velocity layer so I thought it would be much better to organize them as round-robins, though maybe they weren't meant to be.

About the polyphony, here's the project file: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Wt-...ew?usp=sharing.
I've set the max polyphony for the ride cymbal to 4. Just play the MIDI all the way through and you'll notice: there seem to be cymbal hits triggered at random underneath the regular ones. It's not easy to explain, but hopefully you'll hear.
The glitch is fixed by setting max polyphony to 1.

Tod, if you could take a look at the other kits it would be great. They're much smaller than Big Mono, so it shouldn't take you long. They're pretty nice kits so I think it would be good to have mappings for Reaper available for others, too.

Last edited by Nizhny Tagil; 06-28-2018 at 05:26 AM.
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Old 06-28-2018, 08:42 AM   #4
Harry Diddlebock
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Your post made me aware of the Reasampl0matic5000's existence. It works great here with the Ruffrider Kit. O'm downloading the Big Mono kit now. Thanks very much.
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Old 06-28-2018, 09:17 AM   #5
Tod
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Quote:
I'm very confused about the polyphony. As I've said, the cymbals sound better with a "Max Polyphony" higher than one, but when playing fast hits there is a weird glitch where notes seem to play that are not there.
I can't explain it very well, you should try and reproduce it.
I'll make a demo if I can so I can show you exactly what I mean.
Hi again Nizhny. Regarding Polyphony, because of the way a ride is played, it has a special problem with polyphony.

The best way to demonstrate this is to place 6 notes an 8th note apart on the ride. Give the first note a velocity
of 127 and the following notes a velocity of 20. Then open RS5K, select the ride, and set Max voices to 1 and hit
play.

Increase the Max voices to 2 and play. Then do the same until you get the Max voices up to 7. Notice how the first
note gets cut off. So we definitely have to have the Max voices set at more then 1.

So, what happens when we set the Max voices above 1, especially 4 or 5? For example if we set the Max voice at 4,
instead of 1 ride playing, we have 4 rides playing all at the same time. No matter where we set the Max voices, the
ride is going to be unnatural. So we have to find a happy medium, and I think 3 or 4 is in the ball park. What you're
hearing in your sample RPP is the cumulative of the rides playing.

However, in your RPP, you've got the velocities all set at 127 which is not the right way to program the ride. I'm sure
you know how to program a ride the way it should be, with differing velocities. If not I'll put something together for
you.

Once you have the ride programmed properly, then play with the Max voices to get them set so they are the most natural.

In Kontakt we can not only set the number of voices but also the release when the notes are cut off. RS5K seems to have
this, but it doesn't seem to work.

Quote:
Tod, if you could take a look at the other kits it would be great. They're much smaller than Big Mono, so it shouldn't take you long. They're pretty nice kits so I think it would be good to have mappings for Reaper available for others, too.
If I can find time I will, but today I've got 2 clients coming this afternoon. I already had the Big Mono samples but I'll
have to download the samples for the other kits.

Actually I already programmed Big Mono in RS5K quite a few years ago, but when I dug the thread yesterday, none of the links
worked. Ooppps!
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Old 06-28-2018, 01:03 PM   #6
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Thanks Tod, I think I understand.
I've never put much attention to dynamics because I tend to program very simple beats so I think that's why it never occured to me.

The crash is usually played at full force and the hits are less contiguous, so I think it's OK for that to have a a single voice playing.
But for the ride I think you're totally right, a value of 4 seems to work much better if its played more dynamically like it should.

I'll update all the mappings accordingly.

Anyway, I admit that I can't program drums like you say.
In fact, for my own stuff I don't really need to, it's just simple beats. Most of the time I just randomize velocities and timing to make the drums sound more natural and that's it.

Thank you for everything so far, you've been very helpful.
By the way, I had tried to use your mappings for the Big Mono kit but as you said the links are dead.
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Old 06-29-2018, 10:58 AM   #7
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Hi Nizhny,

I got some time to checkout the Ruffrider template and I think it looks good, and I see you fixed the some of the things we
discussed, so I only have a few comments.

What you call "Snare click" is more commonly called "Sidestick", however that's not a big deal, especially if "Snare click" is
more common to you. Also in the keymaping I would have put the 2nd tom on G1 and the 3rd tom on A1. I should add, in
both RS5K and Notenames, the toms all have the same name.

I also meant to mention about the outputs yesterday. If it were me I would add a separate output tracks for the Ride, as
well as the Snare click. It might also be advantageous to have separate outputs for the Toms too. Not only are they easier
to work with but they often use different FX.

Other then that, it looks good Nizhny, good job.
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Old 06-29-2018, 03:19 PM   #8
Nizhny Tagil
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Thanks a lot, Tod!
Admittedly I haven't fixed the names yet both in the FX chain and in the piano roll for the Ruffrider template; I have only changed the polyphony for the ride because it seemed more urgent.

The toms have all the same name because in the kit there's only a sample set for the floor tom, the other toms are re-pitched.
The "Snare click" is the sidestick, of course, but that's what the author called the samples so it shows up like that.

The outputs could be arranged better, I agree, but that's easy to fix, the important thing is that the mapping works with all velocity layers etc.

Unfortunately, I don't think RS5K can handle the polyphony aspect very well. Setting the polyphony for the cymbals at 4 is much better, but what you call "the cumulative of the rides playing" is very noticeable when you have multiple cymbal hits consecutively, unless the velocities are programmed meticulously to avoid it.
I've tried TX16WX with the Big Mono kit as mapped by suleiman and it doesn't have the same problem. You can have multiple cymbal hits contiguously at full velocity and the polyphony set at max and it sounds OK.
As you have already pointed out, the "Note-off release ovverride" option doesn't help.
So I think it's a big limitation for using RS5K exclusively as a drum sampler.

Hopefully someone else could find these mappings useful, anyway.
Thanks a lot again, Tod. I appreciate your help!
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