Old 05-01-2019, 01:47 AM   #1
SmokeJumperMusicUK
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Default Reaper Live Use - separate project as master mix

I wonder if this is possible in reaper and, if so, if anyone can give some tips on how best to set this up.

I'm currently preparing a live setup using reaper. I'm going down the route of having separate songs in separate projects and opening the projects in project tabs. I have SWS extensions installed and I've disabled "run background projects". This means that only the visible song/project is using resources (I think). Using various actions, etc I can easily switch between song/project tabs.

Each song, routes individual tracks to various busses that are the same in each project, i.e. Click, Drums, Vocals, Guitars, Synths, Bass.

What I would like to do is have a separate (master) reaper project to act as a "Master mixer". i.e. I could route the individual busses from each individual project to the "master mixer" in same way as if I had outputted each buss to a separate channel on an external mixer.

Thanks in advance
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Old 05-01-2019, 05:00 AM   #2
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Unfortunately i don't think it's quite so simple as having a "master tab", but if it's because you need to mix between different buses there are a couple of workarounds
1) use a mixer plugin on the monitor FX bus and have your songs as multi-channel output - maybe using lbx stripper to make a custom plugin
2)use another app as your mixer - Mulab free or ableton lite or something, as long as it can do ASIO, you can use ReaRoute to link them (this is actually possible using 2 instances of reaper, if you have 2 soundcards, but it's a bit wobbly to set up, and i don't think you can use Rearoute on a portable install)
3) if your soundcard has a loopback facility you might be able to route tabs into other tabs, or maybe even with something like voicemeeter
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Old 05-01-2019, 05:26 AM   #3
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Hi Nick
(There is a dedicated subforum for discussion Reaper "Live use" issues.)

The concept of project tabs does not allow for routing between different project tabs.

If you need something like this, you supposedly need to do a single big project for all tabs.

Subprojects might help, but right now there are no "Live Subprojects", but only "pre-rendered" subprojects. Those might or might not help in your case.

SWS LiveConfigs can mute and unmute tracks for saving CPU when only parts of the tracks are used at a time. But it will just unmute a single of the tracks it manages, not multiple ones. I don't know if moving the tracks that are originally in a tab in a folder track and have same muted/unmuted (does the CPU saving apply to daughter tracks).

Of course scripts can be done that mute/unmute tracks, see ReaPack -> "Mute or unmute Track X" and ReaPack -.> "Midi Fade X".

-Michael
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Old 05-01-2019, 05:53 AM   #4
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Quote:
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Hi Nick
(There is a dedicated subforum for discussion Reaper "Live use" issues.)

The concept of project tabs does not allow for routing between different project tabs.
Not quite true
https://forum.cockos.com/showpost.ph...8&postcount=10

I’ve been using Reaper like this weekly for three years. Works great. You must enable the « run background projects option and the more songs you have the bigger the hit on the cpu. But I did a stress test and my 2012 laptop starts to break a sweat at about 300songs. So it’s no biggie.

Reaper has been a workhorse for me in live sequencing.
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Old 05-01-2019, 06:38 AM   #5
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wow! nice..
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Old 05-01-2019, 07:16 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lexaproductions View Post
saying -> "You will now have loopback hardware outputs and inputs (you can output on one project tab, and read on another project tab)."

That's really interesting stuff, indeed.

How do you control which tab is "playing" ? For decent "Live" usage it would be necessary to derive that action from a Midi message from some hardware controller.

-Michael
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Old 05-01-2019, 09:54 AM   #7
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Actually you can have two tabs playing if you want. The transport always control the front most tab
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Old 05-01-2019, 11:52 AM   #8
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Of course.

But how to start a tab (aka song) by a Midi event ?

What I might be interested in is a setup with one Tab for Midi and audio I/O and live playable instruments and other tabs for playback songs to be fired by Midi events.

-Michael
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Old 05-01-2019, 03:52 PM   #9
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Well I guess you can make an action:
Take note of which tab you are currently in
Go to the right Tab
Trigger the Play action
Comeback to the saved Tab if you want to
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Old 05-01-2019, 03:59 PM   #10
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Or maybe use this?
Code:
reaper.OnPlayButtonEx(ReaProject proj)
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Old 05-01-2019, 09:48 PM   #11
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Can such code be used in ReaScripts done in any language ?

-Michael (still very ignorant regarding ReaScripts)
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Old 05-01-2019, 09:53 PM   #12
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Yes it can.

In Reapack, me2beats, has a lot of Project Tabs related scripts. You should be able to get one and modify it to suit your needs.
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Old 05-02-2019, 02:38 AM   #13
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Firstly, sorry for posting in the wrong subforum. I did know about the live use subforum but obviously forgot about it when posting the original question.

Thanks all for the replies and ideas. Certainly a few things to try out. I'll post back with any final solution that works for me.

Cheers
Nick
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Old 05-02-2019, 05:12 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lexaproductions View Post
Yes it can.
It does not look like if the eel compiler would digest it. But supposedly there is a proper eel syntax for this call.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lexaproductions View Post
In Reapack, me2beats, has a lot of Project Tabs related scripts. You should be able to get one and modify it to suit your needs.
I'll take a look ASAP,
Thanks,#-Michael
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Old 05-05-2019, 06:33 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lexaproductions View Post
Not quite true
https://forum.cockos.com/showpost.ph...8&postcount=10

I’ve been using Reaper like this weekly for three years. Works great. You must enable the « run background projects option and the more songs you have the bigger the hit on the cpu. But I did a stress test and my 2012 laptop starts to break a sweat at about 300songs. So it’s no biggie.

Reaper has been a workhorse for me in live sequencing.

thanks for this very interesting 'secret' info... just tried it and works as it says but.... does not work on portable installs I guess cuz it depends on the rearoute dll... and apparently we can't have that working in a portable

unless... someone can tell me otherwise???
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Old 05-05-2019, 07:35 PM   #16
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Dont know if it’s a window’s issue but I know for a fact that it works on a Mac. Portable install or not.
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Old 05-06-2019, 05:42 AM   #17
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Hi all
Making some progress on this. So far the most promising result seems to be to use the undocumented audio loopback

(edit reaper.ini, in the [reaper] section, add a line:
rearoute_loopback=8)

So I now have a "mixer project tab" into which all my other song project tabs are feeding their busses using the audio loopback.

In the "mixer project tab", I have used ReaLearn from Helgoboss to set up midi control of the track volume for each buss. Project tabs are set to Run Background Projects and Run Stopped Background Projects.

This would be the ideal solution except for one small wrinkle. The midi-controller only works on the "mixer project tab" if that project has focus. I would really like to be able to control the "mixer project tab" using the midi controller when that project does not have focus, i.e. I have one of the song projects visible. Does anyone know if there is a way to achieve this?

Cheers
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Old 05-06-2019, 06:52 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lexaproductions View Post
Dont know if it’s a window’s issue but I know for a fact that it works on a Mac. Portable install or not.
thanks for that info... it is interesting and yet on windows it definitely only works on the normal install and not on a portable... even if you have both kinds of installs...

it seems that this loopback trick depends on the rearoute dll being in play and that dll does not install on a windows portable...
Even if I copy it from the normal install to a portable, it will not work.

But... there may be some way to hack it into working which is why I have asked.... so anyone got any ideas?

It is not terribly important to me to have this working but I am curious about it.
Actually I don't understand why and how the OP wants to use it... since it seems to me much the same could be done with a fake master on each tab project... with the exception of running two project tabs at the same time.... but we don't have a need for that.
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Old 05-06-2019, 07:55 AM   #19
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Quote:
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This would be the ideal solution except for one small wrinkle. The midi-controller only works on the "mixer project tab" if that project has focus. I would really like to be able to control the "mixer project tab" using the midi controller when that project does not have focus, i.e. I have one of the song projects visible. Does anyone know if there is a way to achieve this?
I can think of 2 solutions:
1-
If you ALWAYS put your Mixer tab as the first one in your project, you can setup a routine where every time you touch a mixer button it switches to the first tab to do the change. And when you release it it goes back. It actually makes sense because it allows you to see your changes.

2-
Maybe you could use the IAC Driver or another MIDI bus to talk directly to the Mixer tab without having to use the Reaper MIDI routing. Just make sure Reaper ignores any other MIDI information on your controller to not mess up with the current playing tab.
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Old 05-06-2019, 07:55 AM   #20
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Quote:
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thanks for that info... it is interesting and yet on windows it definitely only works on the normal install and not on a portable... even if you have both kinds of installs...

it seems that this loopback trick depends on the rearoute dll being in play and that dll does not install on a windows portable...
Even if I copy it from the normal install to a portable, it will not work.

But... there may be some way to hack it into working which is why I have asked.... so anyone got any ideas?

It is not terribly important to me to have this working but I am curious about it.
Actually I don't understand why and how the OP wants to use it... since it seems to me much the same could be done with a fake master on each tab project... with the exception of running two project tabs at the same time.... but we don't have a need for that.
But on windows isn't it what Rearoute does???
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Old 05-06-2019, 07:59 AM   #21
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Hi hopi,
it definitelly is possible to use ReaRoute in portable Reaper - IF normal Reaper is also INSTALLED on the same computer.
The thing is that ReaRoute driver needs to be installed into Windows registry to be shown/available in Reaper (no matter if portable or normal-installed) as in/out device (it is available also to other audio apps).
I don't remember exact steps to make it working like that right now, but I will check some of my posts later to find it out, because few years ago I wrote about it here in some thread I believe.
Of course that it is not portable=transferable to another computer.. It alwas MUST be installed. But I think you can install only that ReaRoute driver, not full Reaper.

Will try to find it and I'll be back later.
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Old 05-14-2019, 08:55 AM   #22
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@akadamie - Any news on how to make Rearoute work in a portable install?
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Old 05-14-2019, 01:52 PM   #23
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Quote:
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Hi hopi,
it definitelly is possible to use ReaRoute in portable Reaper - IF normal Reaper is also INSTALLED on the same computer.
The thing is that ReaRoute driver needs to be installed into Windows registry to be shown/available in Reaper (no matter if portable or normal-installed) as in/out device (it is available also to other audio apps).
I don't remember exact steps to make it working like that right now, but I will check some of my posts later to find it out, because few years ago I wrote about it here in some thread I believe.
Of course that it is not portable=transferable to another computer.. It alwas MUST be installed. But I think you can install only that ReaRoute driver, not full Reaper.

Will try to find it and I'll be back later.
akademie
Thanks ... hope you come back as I'd like to know how to make it part of windows...

I do have a normal install and also a couple of portables.... I did try to copy the rearoute dll from the full install to the portables but that did not work...

BTW, a similar issue exists with rewire.... can't use it in the portables... so if you know a way to hack that also, please do tell!
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Old 05-24-2019, 12:30 PM   #24
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I think I just found a workaround to a long standing CPU concern: Because We need the Reaper function: "Run Background Projects" To be "ON" for this to work. A large Project had a big CPU hit to the computer. It's never been an actual issue for me but I don'T like Reaper to show 800% in the activity monitor.

But there is another Reaper Function named "Run Stopped Background Projects". With this option set to OFF, only the playing tabs are online.

So I use this action to initiate playback:
Code:
  AudioRoutingTab = reaper.EnumProjects(0,0)
  reaper.OnPlayButton()
  reaper.OnPlayButtonEx(AudioRoutingTab)
And this one to Stop:
Code:
  AudioRoutingTab = reaper.EnumProjects(0,0)
  reaper.OnStopButton()
  reaper.OnStopButtonEx(AudioRoutingTab)
This way, I'm making sure that I keep my Audio Routing Tab Play-State in sync with my playback tabs and I never have more than 2-3 tabs online at the same time.

I just tried a quick stress test of a 150 opened songs averaging 20 audio tracks in each. Never got a CPU over 80%. I now need to do some testing on this to make sure it's reliable but so far it looks promising.
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Old 05-24-2019, 01:27 PM   #25
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Have you tried to use two instances of reaper? You can set your main instance as the mixing one and the other as 'playback instance' outputing to rearoute wich input in main instance.
You Have to use some midi virtual cable to command play stop and navigate beetween projects
I did that with a great success, using heavy synth ampsim and fx on my latest gig.

Hope you understoud me...
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Old 05-24-2019, 01:56 PM   #26
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I'm on mac so Rearoute is a no go for me. Believe me, I seriously thought about it. But I figured it's easier to just open all projects on the same RPL run.
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