Old 09-18-2009, 06:29 AM   #1
peter5992
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Default Reaper cuts off midi notes

Good morning again:

Reaper keeps cutting off midi notes (actually, notes supposedly to be generated by a VST) - this happens in EW Play. Sometimes it cuts them off, sometimes it doesn't.

It's happened before, and I would *really* like to get to the bottom of this and fix it. I am working on a project with close to 100 hundred midi and audio tracks, if I have to audition every single audio to make sure there are no glitches I'll go nuts before long.

This happens on a vista 64 bit computer (vista ultimate), Core i7 processor (3 Ghz), 6 GB RAM, M Audio profire 2626 soundcard. I am using the 64 bit version of Reaper and the 64 bit Play plugin.

Many thanks everyone.
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Old 09-18-2009, 06:50 AM   #2
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Which MIDI notes are being cut? Care to explain further?
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Old 09-18-2009, 07:13 AM   #3
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do you mean when rendered? I get that a bit - sound okay on play, then get cut off when rendered
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Old 09-18-2009, 08:36 AM   #4
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You could try "limit apply fx/render stems to realtime" in audio preferences. Some Kore Player presets do this with me and that setting fixes it.
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Old 09-18-2009, 09:19 AM   #5
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Thanks Steve!

I tried that and it seems to be a bit better. Happens inter alia with Voices of Passion (India Master) - both on playback and when rendering (even in realtime), the first note is played back just a very brief instant. You hear 'sh' instead of 'sadidabwai daaaa' (or whatever the woman is singing - in Indian, I don't speak Indian). It plays back about 1 in every 5 times.

Also happens with other instances of Play, eg the Bansuri flute from Silk. Plays back and renders ok 80% of the time, the other 20% I hear only the first brief splash of the note. I know it should be longer, I created the score in Sibelius so I know what it's supposed to sound like.

It's like as if the tracks are half asleep - they have to wake up first, and fall back to sleep if they haven't had anything to play for a few minutes.

I'll give it a couple of tries.
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Old 09-18-2009, 09:26 AM   #6
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Just out of curiosity, have you tried playing with DFD settings or stuff like that?
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Old 09-18-2009, 11:50 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Just out of curiosity, have you tried playing with DFD settings or stuff like that?
Yes - makes no difference. Also tried different settings for advanced disk I/O settings, seemed to help on playback, but when I rendered the file and put the music to the video and watched it back, half of the notes were still missing.
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Old 09-18-2009, 02:40 PM   #8
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Update 2:36 pm: spent an hour on the phone with Tom Bolten of PC Audiolabs but we couldn't figure it out either - although we did a couple of tests and Play seems to work with Sonar w/o problems, so I may just switch to Sonar although I'd hate to since I have to learn yet another program.

To be continued.
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Old 09-18-2009, 02:49 PM   #9
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Try this, it might work. Give the sampler something pointless to do (like turn sustain on and off) just before it's due to play. Also in audio preferences you might want to uncheck "tiny fade-in on playback start" I can't think of anything else as I don't have the EW sampler to play with. One small tip I have is, I never start projects on the first bar, always 1 bar in.
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Old 09-18-2009, 03:41 PM   #10
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This may be impossible to tell from your side, but do you have any sense of whether the plugin thinks it is supposed to stop playing the sample (as if it had received a note-off message), or if it is simply failing to play the whole sample?

Do the stopped samples seem to have any connection to anything else happening? Meaning is there any chance some other activity (selecting another track, soloing something) could be sending a note-off to the track?
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Old 09-18-2009, 05:57 PM   #11
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Thanks Steve and Schwa.

1. The plugins simply fail to play the whole passage. I checked the midi notes and they are there, allright. It's just plain vanilla midi one output by Sibelius and imported into Reaper.

2. I tried to 'warm up' the VSTs by opening them, clicking on them, et cetera.

That said, just recreated a new project but tweaked one thing (the midi properties). Playing it back now - sounds hopeful - but without the video I had to help me when working in Sibelius (another thread).

Will keep you posted.
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Old 09-18-2009, 07:03 PM   #12
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when I had this problem w(using Kontakt) it was solved by setting the option (something like) 'tell plug in about offline status'. But that only worked for some of the loaded instruments - for another I had to render it individually with that setting off.
Then I rendered a stereo mix from the rendered stems.
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Old 09-18-2009, 10:10 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peter5992 View Post
Thanks Steve!

I tried that and it seems to be a bit better. Happens inter alia with Voices of Passion (India Master) - both on playback and when rendering (even in realtime), the first note is played back just a very brief instant. You hear 'sh' instead of 'sadidabwai daaaa' (or whatever the woman is singing - in Indian, I don't speak Indian). It plays back about 1 in every 5 times.

Also happens with other instances of Play, eg the Bansuri flute from Silk. Plays back and renders ok 80% of the time, the other 20% I hear only the first brief splash of the note. I know it should be longer, I created the score in Sibelius so I know what it's supposed to sound like.

It's like as if the tracks are half asleep - they have to wake up first, and fall back to sleep if they haven't had anything to play for a few minutes.

I'll give it a couple of tries.
These are exactly the symptoms I get with Kore Player. The offending presets are Made in Rock and Sky Kit. However the reason for this is because my computer (like me) is old, tired and short on memory. Look at your system and see if anything is causing a delay or log jam in the sample streaming. Also open one of the midi tracks in the inline editor and compare the rendered wave with it. What you are looking for is the track starting off fine then dropping off entirely with odd tail ends of notes (sample playing part way through the midi note) and playing fine through slow passages, but dropping notes on fast ones. These would indicate that the buffer is emptying faster than it can be filled.
Let us know how you get on.
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Old 09-18-2009, 10:12 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradleyfilms View Post
These are exactly the symptoms I get with Kore Player. The offending presets are Made in Rock and Sky Kit. However the reason for this is because my computer (like me) is old, tired and short on memory. Look at your system and see if anything is causing a delay or log jam in the sample streaming. Also open one of the midi tracks in the inline editor and compare the rendered wave with it. What you are looking for is the track starting off fine then dropping off entirely with odd tail ends of notes (sample playing part way through the midi note) and playing fine through slow passages, but dropping notes on fast ones. These would indicate that the buffer is emptying faster than it can be filled.
Let us know how you get on.
Steve
but the computer age/power should have no effect on offline render
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Old 09-19-2009, 06:09 AM   #15
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Thanks Steve and toot - well I *finally* got it figured out: in each of the midi tracks, I had to right click, go to "midi item properties", and check the box for "send as channel 1". In each of the Play instances (about 30) I did the same thing, ie select channel 1. I was then able to render all midi tracks and subsequently render a master track.

I still have no idea exactly why that is necessary - checking the "send as channel 1 box" I mean - if somebody could explain this to me I'd be grateful. I've had this before, setting up wordbuilder / choirs and also with other plugins, should have remembered it.

Well, whatever, for now I'm ok - movie is rendered and off to my filmmaker. Pfff. I'll do a post mortem later.

ps it's not the computer by the way - this is a laptop that was custom built for me by PC Audiolabs for professional audio purposes, with the fastest processor (Core i7 3 Ghz), max amount of RAM (6 GB, expandable to 12 GB) and max amount of hard disk space (3 x 500 GB) available.
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Old 12-13-2009, 08:55 AM   #16
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i was having the same problem, and tried everything that was in the post. Turns out, the only thing that fixed it was by rendering in "real-time", kind of a pain but I am glad it works out!

Any thoughts from anyone working on Reaper why this might be happening, and maybe getting a fix for it?
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Old 08-26-2016, 05:24 AM   #17
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Note. On this last test project the cuts/chops are the same and in the exact same places everytime I render.
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Old 03-29-2018, 01:52 AM   #18
john_am
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Default Any solution to this problem?

I am programming a VST synth and I have this problem with not accurate note off messages. The notes are cut irregularly from time to time. Any tip?
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Old 03-30-2018, 01:50 PM   #19
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I've had this same problem as well, with Play specifically cutting off notes on rendering (playback is fine). I've been inclined to blame it on the Play engine since in my experience most of their updates break one or two things, but honestly if it's a Reaper issue there's a much greater chance of it being fixed. My workarounds so far have been online rendering (recording playback, in other words) and interestingly enough "Apply track/take FX to item as new take" has worked for me as well.
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Old 03-31-2018, 11:40 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peter5992 View Post
Thanks Steve and toot - well I *finally* got it figured out: in each of the midi tracks, I had to right click, go to "midi item properties", and check the box for "send as channel 1". In each of the Play instances (about 30) I did the same thing, ie select channel 1. I was then able to render all midi tracks and subsequently render a master track.

I still have no idea exactly why that is necessary - checking the "send as channel 1 box" I mean - if somebody could explain this to me I'd be grateful. I've had this before, setting up wordbuilder / choirs and also with other plugins, should have remembered it.

Well, whatever, for now I'm ok - movie is rendered and off to my filmmaker. Pfff. I'll do a post mortem later.

ps it's not the computer by the way - this is a laptop that was custom built for me by PC Audiolabs for professional audio purposes, with the fastest processor (Core i7 3 Ghz), max amount of RAM (6 GB, expandable to 12 GB) and max amount of hard disk space (3 x 500 GB) available.

Hey peter...

wondering if the problem midi has come from Sibelius and if that set some of the notes to a different midi channel?

You could most easily see that by looking at the midi item in reaper midi editor and going to list view... in that you will all the channel settings for each note and actually for each and any midi event.
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Old 07-28-2023, 02:58 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hopi View Post
Hey peter...

wondering if the problem midi has come from Sibelius and if that set some of the notes to a different midi channel?

You could most easily see that by looking at the midi item in reaper midi editor and going to list view... in that you will all the channel settings for each note and actually for each and any midi event.
Hi - I tried this but didn't solve the problem. Spoke to East West who said Reaper rendering at fastest method could cause problems with instruments with long tails like strings.

Only solution I have found is to render at x1. And the same for Rendering tracks to stems - with an SWS extensiokn you can toggle speed of render to stem from x1 to unliited.
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