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Old 03-22-2021, 11:48 AM   #721
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Here's an idea on how to (maybe even script) way better behaviour in comping.

1. Leave all the autosplits as-is.

2. Have a "swipe-compy" action that performs on a Razor Edit:
--- a. split at Razor Edit edges
--- b. remove all splits under Razor Edit
--- c. select take under mouse cursor

This would effectively allow you to "paint" in the comp using Razor Edits. All the trillion splits that might be happening in your RE get "healed" (this is the tricky part), and a split is created at the RE edges as your new take border. Take under mouse selected. Done!

Thoughts? Here's a (terrible) rendition:



I'm able to do those steps manually above. Split edges, heal inside, select take under mouse. It's basically Swipe Comping, and especially once Dedicated Lanes are implemented fully this will be even easier.

Last edited by ferropop; 03-22-2021 at 12:29 PM.
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Old 03-22-2021, 11:57 AM   #722
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Originally Posted by Gass n Klang View Post
Just using multiple tracks doesn't work for me:
If you want to safe your comp you need to move it to another track that has to be created, renamed etc. If you use ARA plugins on your "mastercomp" and want to create a new comp you somehow need to move these plugins to another comp-lane, too.
Of course it's not ideal. I hope soon on the next builds, we are going to see some light in the tunnel with media item lanes.
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Old 03-22-2021, 12:35 PM   #723
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My illustration looks a bit like the playlists/swipe-to-top-track scripts people have posted. This is simpler and just as effective.

Keeps Reaper's system largely intact, but must make it friendly to this process. Done, Ableton/Logic/S1 style swipe-comping. No "top track" necessary.

What would (importantly) need to change:
---Autosplits get created "per punch-in" and not "item-wide". So you can use the autosplits if they're convenient, but they're activated "per punch-in" in some way. My process above destroys the auto-splits when you "swipe", and you can't get back to them if you wanted to.

Or maybe get rid of autosplits altogether?
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Old 03-22-2021, 12:40 PM   #724
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Or maybe get rid of autosplits altogether?
In the new feature of course. Just to clarify because tons of us want them.
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Old 03-22-2021, 12:42 PM   #725
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In the new feature of course. Just to clarify because tons of us want them.
100% haha, I'd have use for them too. I honestly like Most of what Reaper's got going on, but it can be nudged in the right direction the more I think about it.
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Old 03-22-2021, 12:47 PM   #726
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100% haha, I'd have use for them too. I honestly like Most of what Reaper's got going on, but it can be nudged in the right direction the more I think about it.
Surely no issues with options and new features that help you guys out... but all those times I gave people crap about splits, I was sincere about my liking them and being to my advantage the vast majority of the time (and to the rest of you, yes that includes 12 tracks of mic'd drums and multiple takes)

Take care man!
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Old 03-23-2021, 01:24 AM   #727
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ferropop View Post
Here's an idea on how to (maybe even script) way better behaviour in comping.
Would it not be better to hold off with suggestions (In fact I also did provide some here ), until we know what exactly Cockos's plans are with the upcoming Item Lane system ?

-Michael
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Old 03-23-2021, 06:13 AM   #728
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Would it not be better to hold off with suggestions (In fact I also did provide some here ), until we know what exactly Cockos's plans are with the upcoming Item Lane system ?

-Michael
Yeah maybe. It's less of a suggestion and more "we could have this right now" given that I was able to create that behaviour manually and it seems pretty close to swipe comping.

Once you can Razor Edit over discrete lanes, my above idea is even easier and more clear because you swipe over the specific take you want rather than the whole item.
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Old 03-23-2021, 12:02 PM   #729
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Here's how it could be implemented today, without adding anything special.

1. Initial Comp


2. Razor Edit "swipe" over desired section, mouse over desired take


3. Split at RE edges


4. Explode takes out to new tracks


5. Glue all takes to length of RE


6. Implode takes back into original track, make active "desired take" from step 2.


...for reference, the original "swipe":


That process is obviously scriptable because I just did it by hand. Even better: implemented natively.

Ideally 4/5/6 would be done "internally" without having to create all these new tracks. This is just me doing the necessary steps in the only way available to us.

Thoughts?

EDIT : instead of GLUE in step 5, can just do a HEAL and resize -- this keeps the original source files!

Last edited by ferropop; 03-24-2021 at 08:17 AM.
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Old 03-23-2021, 12:50 PM   #730
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Ideally 4/5/6 would be done "internally" without having to create all these new tracks. This is just me doing the necessary steps in the only way available to us.

Thoughts?
Whatever floats your boat.

To me it looks like a bunch of unnecessary steps with an unclear goal and a side effect of an explosion of source file dependencies, which is a big nope for me.

If this helps you in your work than it's great. The distinctive feature of a Power Tool is a multitude of personal workflows which users develop according to their needs and preferences.

Sorry if my comments in this thread look too negative.

BTW, ferropop, the issue #1 in post #698 here is my attempt to address one of your critiques of the current take system, but I don't see any reaction from you. I've created the appropriate FR for this specific issue which at the moment has 0 comments, even though I expected you to be the first one to be interested. Please, take a look and write your thoughts there.

Last edited by Indiscipline; 03-23-2021 at 12:57 PM.
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Old 03-23-2021, 12:59 PM   #731
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Whatever floats your boat.

To me it looks like a bunch of unnecessary steps with an unclear goal and a side effect of an explosion of source file dependencies, which is a big nope for me.

If this helps you in your work than it's great. The distinctive feature of a Power Tool is a multitude of personal workflows which users develop according to their needs and preferences.

Sorry if my comments in this thread look too negative.

BTW, ferropop, the issue #1 in post #698 here is my attempt to address one of your critiques of the current take system, but I don't see any reaction from you. I've created the appropriate FR for this specific issue which at the moment has 0 comments, even though I expected you to be the first one to be interested. Please, take a look and write your thoughts there.
Indiscipline I'm just proposing a way to pretty much get swipe comping as seen in every other DAW, without having to add anything to Reaper. Look back in my post history, I'm right up there in crusading for a total overhaul but in the meantime would like to just get some work done in the most painless way possible.

It's not perfect - ideally there'd be a way to restore the original splits from each punch-in on-demand. Keyword : From each punch-in!. That's exactly two splits, unique to each punch.
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Old 03-23-2021, 01:06 PM   #732
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Originally Posted by Indiscipline View Post

BTW, ferropop, the issue #1 in post #698 here is my attempt to address one of your critiques of the current take system, but I don't see any reaction from you. I've created the appropriate FR for this specific issue which at the moment has 0 comments, even though I expected you to be the first one to be interested. Please, take a look and write your thoughts there.
Hey, I'll return to it - just super busy but still trying our hardest to improve our tools. I noticed my posts never get too many responses either haha - when you go into detail people generally zone out. I'll go through your post though.

What did you mean by unclear goal? My goal is to immediately select a zone of audio and have it become active / cycle the takes. As few splits as humanly possible.

Last edited by ferropop; 03-23-2021 at 01:25 PM.
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Old 03-25-2021, 02:07 PM   #733
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Just came across this. How can I delete the first two take lanes in this example? I tried grouping all split items, then selecting the first take, delete the active take....... but it leaves an empty lane. This really shouldn't be so complicated... I think the biggest problem with the current take system is how impossible it can feel to make such seemingly simple adjustments.



And btw, why do inactive empty take lanes have the color of an active take lane??
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Old 03-26-2021, 01:32 AM   #734
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Just came across this. How can I delete the first two take lanes in this example? I tried grouping all split items, then selecting the first take, delete the active take....... but it leaves an empty lane. This really shouldn't be so complicated... I think the biggest problem with the current take system is how impossible it can feel to make such seemingly simple adjustments.

And btw, why do inactive empty take lanes have the color of an active take lane??
You probably have an option "Allow selecting empty take lanes" enabled (Manual: 8.6). There's also a bunch of actions to manage empty take lanes, including removal. There's a distinction between takes and take lanes. It's all there so you can line up different parts of the track visually, it's not too complicated.

Empty lanes could be desaturated a bit, this is a valid request.
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Old 03-26-2021, 04:40 AM   #735
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You probably have an option "Allow selecting empty take lanes" enabled (Manual: 8.6).
I do, how can I delete a specific empty take lane if don't select it?

Just to be clear, I think that the lane not being deleted in this scenario is a bug (I'll file a bug report). But I really am curious. What is the way other people deal with this? I mean, it has to be a common occurrence that a take (a lane spread across multiple split items) was bad and that you want to remove it, right?
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Old 03-26-2021, 04:53 AM   #736
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Remember that this thread is not in the Pre forum.
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Old 03-26-2021, 05:23 AM   #737
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I do, how can I delete a specific empty take lane if don't select it?

Just to be clear, I think that the lane not being deleted in this scenario is a bug (I'll file a bug report). But I really am curious. What is the way other people deal with this? I mean, it has to be a common occurrence that a take (a lane spread across multiple split items) was bad and that you want to remove it, right?
I don't think it's a bug, but perhaps more clear wording could help. You either deactivate the option mentioned and delete the take via the appropriate action (which will remove the take and the lane), or use actions to delete the lane, not the take.

As I said in the previous comment, if you have the option enabled and you delete a take, you end up with an empty take lane, which can help you see that some items have some audio discarded in a specific lane, while keeping the lanes lined up per original source files.
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Old 03-26-2021, 06:14 AM   #738
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I don't think it's a bug, but perhaps more clear wording could help. You either deactivate the option mentioned and delete the take via the appropriate action (which will remove the take and the lane), or use actions to delete the lane, not the take.

As I said in the previous comment, if you have the option enabled and you delete a take, you end up with an empty take lane, which can help you see that some items have some audio discarded in a specific lane, while keeping the lanes lined up per original source files.
In my opinion it's a bug as the empty take lane is left behind to preserve alignment with adjacent items. The current implementation does not consider the edge case where all adjacent items are selected (so it doesn't make sense to preserve alignment).

Hmm, which action deletes a lane? Can't find it.

I think I'm starting to understand what you're saying though. I disabled "allow selecting empty takes" and indeed the first lane is now being deleted. But honestly I'm just more confused now. How is this not complicated? Shouldn't the action "Take: Delete active take from items" delete the active (marked in orange) takes??

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Old 03-26-2021, 07:46 AM   #739
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Originally Posted by FeedTheCat View Post
In my opinion it's a bug as the empty take lane is left behind to preserve alignment with adjacent items. The current implementation does not consider the edge case where all adjacent items are selected (so it doesn't make sense to preserve alignment).
It's absolutely possible to have a track with clusters of items (with holes between adjacent item groups) and to want to still preserve take alignment between them all. It's hard to track edge cases like what you describe so the action simply does just what it says.

Quote:
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Hmm, which action deletes a lane? Can't find it.
There's strangely no action to remove a specific lane, but a bunch of others. Filter action by "take lane", there's Remove All and a few alternatives.

I was able to reproduce your bug and filed the report. Please, confirm the bug there:
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=251374
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Old 03-26-2021, 08:45 AM   #740
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I don't think it's a bug. Looks like intended behavior and it is probably what the devs implemented as a solution to my problem.

Now that I have "Options: Allow selecting empty takes" disabled I can group the items and select a lane and delete it with "Take: Delete active take from items". Even though it looks like it's going to delete other stuff it prioritizes the empty takes.

Working great...



It also sort of makes sense as I'm guessing that "Options: Allow selecting empty takes" is disabled by default. The whole thing is soooo counter-intuitive though... oh well...
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Old 03-26-2021, 10:33 AM   #741
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Looking at those GIFs with their shifting items makes my head hurt lol
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Old 03-26-2021, 11:50 PM   #742
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Looking at those GIFs with their shifting items makes my head hurt lol
It makes little beads of salty water leak from my eye holes.
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Old 03-27-2021, 04:38 AM   #743
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I am thick I'm sure, but somebody please help me here.

How do I select ALL of the first take here (or all of any take) without having to click all the individual parts? I sort of feel like you can't, but at the same time it would be utterly bizarre if that really is the case.

If you can do it in a click/keystroke then feeling like an idiot is a small price for knowing how to do it!

If you can't do it then people who are currently happy with the take system must be very, very different to me!

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Old 03-27-2021, 05:17 AM   #744
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"All the first takes" are just one item.

Of course an item can be selected.

Is this, what you mean ?

-Michael
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Old 03-27-2021, 05:49 AM   #745
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I am thick I'm sure, but somebody please help me here.

How do I select ALL of the first take here (or all of any take) without having to click all the individual parts? I sort of feel like you can't, but at the same time it would be utterly bizarre if that really is the case.

If you can do it in a click/keystroke then feeling like an idiot is a small price for knowing how to do it!

If you can't do it then people who are currently happy with the take system must be very, very different to me!

Group all the individual parts, then click the lane you want. You can then even delete a whole lane, like I did in the gif above, but make sure to wear goggles to protect your eye holes.
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Old 03-27-2021, 06:42 AM   #746
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Group all the individual parts, then click the lane you want. You can then even delete a whole lane, like I did in the gif above, but make sure to wear goggles to protect your eye holes.
Interesting, thanks!

Seems to have very unpredictable outcomes though. Does it stop working after you've deleted a lane or something? It worked ok for a bit, and now it doesn't work. Repeatedly ungrouped and regrouped to see if that was it. Strange. Suddenly started working again when the items WERE NOT grouped, then stopped a few clicks later.

Seems broken.
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Old 03-27-2021, 08:08 AM   #747
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Interesting, thanks!

Seems to have very unpredictable outcomes though. Does it stop working after you've deleted a lane or something? It worked ok for a bit, and now it doesn't work. Repeatedly ungrouped and regrouped to see if that was it. Strange. Suddenly started working again when the items WERE NOT grouped, then stopped a few clicks later.

Seems broken.
There's also this.

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Old 03-27-2021, 09:34 AM   #748
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There's also this.
Again, totally unpredictable outcomes for me.

I assume this is how it is supposed to work

1. Double click tcp to highlight all items.

2. Click part of a take within item which should then auto select ALL parts of that take?

Sometimes it does that, sometimes it selects only the clicked part, sometimes it selects MOST of the parts of the take, but leaves bits unselected.

Or do I have it wrong?

I mean, this stuff should be pretty obvious, shouldn't it? I don't feel that selecting/comping takes in a DAW should require explanation. Maybe I've just become very, very stupid.

I've been recording music for a couple of decades, and used to edit professionally (albeit years ago in Cool Edit). Not that I'm a fancy-pants super-pro (obviously), nor am I a rocket scientist!

I haven't really used Reaper for anything with much editing until the last few months, and it is driving me batty.

Or perhaps I'm very stupid.
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Old 03-27-2021, 10:51 AM   #749
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Again, totally unpredictable outcomes for me.

I assume this is how it is supposed to work

1. Double click tcp to highlight all items.

2. Click part of a take within item which should then auto select ALL parts of that take?

Sometimes it does that, sometimes it selects only the clicked part, sometimes it selects MOST of the parts of the take, but leaves bits unselected.

Or do I have it wrong?

I mean, this stuff should be pretty obvious, shouldn't it? I don't feel that selecting/comping takes in a DAW should require explanation. Maybe I've just become very, very stupid.

I've been recording music for a couple of decades, and used to edit professionally (albeit years ago in Cool Edit). Not that I'm a fancy-pants super-pro (obviously), nor am I a rocket scientist!

I haven't really used Reaper for anything with much editing until the last few months, and it is driving me batty.

Or perhaps I'm very stupid.
You're not stupid, it just works very very differently than in any other DAW. It has its perks honestly, but there's a couple of decisions that were done very early in the design process that didn't scale out.
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Old 03-28-2021, 01:56 AM   #750
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You're not stupid, it just works very very differently than in any other DAW. It has its perks honestly, but there's a couple of decisions that were done very early in the design process that didn't scale out.
Thanks for the reassurance!

Hopefully if I can attach a gif, you can see what I mean about inconsistent behaviour.

There are some different takes here. So I'm trying to select individual slices, and then (double clicking the track to select all) I'm trying to select the entire take. As you (hopefully) can see; this doesn't work reliably.

I mean, there's probably something I'm doing wrong, but if there is it seems (to me) that it is not at all obvious.

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Old 04-07-2021, 06:43 PM   #751
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Thanks for the reassurance!

Hopefully if I can attach a gif, you can see what I mean about inconsistent behaviour.

There are some different takes here. So I'm trying to select individual slices, and then (double clicking the track to select all) I'm trying to select the entire take. As you (hopefully) can see; this doesn't work reliably.

I mean, there's probably something I'm doing wrong, but if there is it seems (to me) that it is not at all obvious.

This sucks so Bad, I can't believe they don't fix it 🤷🏻*♂️🤷🏻*♂️🤦🏻*♂️
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Old 04-07-2021, 06:55 PM   #752
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This sucks so Bad, I can't believe they don't fix it ����*♂️����*♂️����*♂️
Oh, there's a combo of settings. That screen GIF is a problem I've never had, at least not in years before I tweaked things to my liking. I also can't quite tell what's going on since they also have items partially grouped. Of course if they collapsed the takes and used T/SHIFT+T, all that goes away anyhow.
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Old 04-07-2021, 07:09 PM   #753
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There are some different takes here. So I'm trying to select individual slices, and then (double clicking the track to select all) I'm trying to select the entire take.
Wait, what are you calling "selecting an entire take"?

Double-clicking doesn't select all takes, it selects all "items" which Reaper is doing. You have multiple items left-to-right and within each of those are multiple takes/lanes top-to-bottom.
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Old 04-07-2021, 11:21 PM   #754
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Originally Posted by karbomusic View Post
Wait, what are you calling "selecting an entire take"?

Double-clicking doesn't select all takes, it selects all "items" which Reaper is doing. You have multiple items left-to-right and within each of those are multiple takes/lanes top-to-bottom.
Group items with takes, then double click to select all items on track.

Now click takes SHOULD (according to posts above) select entire take while all items grouped and selected. As the gif shows; sometimes this works, sometimes it doesn't.

If you say this isn't how it works, please tell me how, after choosing parts of takes to comp, one can (in a single, easy move) select one take in entirety?
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Old 04-08-2021, 12:10 AM   #755
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Originally Posted by Zargon the Destroyer View Post
If you say this isn't how it works, please tell me how, after choosing parts of takes to comp, one can (in a single, easy move) select one take in entirety?
I can't tell you that isn't how it works until I know what you call an "entire take" Which "Item" is not being selected when you double click the track? I'm sorry if I'm not seeing it but we need to confirm the terms to keep the confusion down...

Here's two items with three takes in each item, double clicking the track will select both "Items". Obviously only one take can be active/selected per item because that's the take we hear during playback...



The easiest way to test this is to double-click the track, then press CTRL+L to collapse the track, if not working, some of the items you now see, won't be selected, if they all are selected, it's working - until I better understand the grouping you have going on.
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Old 04-08-2021, 02:13 AM   #756
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Originally Posted by karbomusic View Post
I can't tell you that isn't how it works until I know what you call an "entire take" Which "Item" is not being selected when you double click the track? I'm sorry if I'm not seeing it but we need to confirm the terms to keep the confusion down...

Here's two items with three takes in each item, double clicking the track will select both "Items". Obviously only one take can be active/selected per item because that's the take we hear during playback...



The easiest way to test this is to double-click the track, then press CTRL+L to collapse the track, if not working, some of the items you now see, won't be selected, if they all are selected, it's working - until I better understand the grouping you have going on.
I'm simply following the instructions above.

Say you have 3 takes, and they are sliced into 3 parts (total of 9 parts).

You select (comp) the parts you want: take 1 part a, the 2 part b, take 3 part c.

But now I want to select ALL (the entirety of) take 1 (a, b and c).

How to do that without clicking all the parts (a, but and c).

This is what the gif shows, or not.
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Old 04-08-2021, 05:43 AM   #757
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Originally Posted by Zargon the Destroyer View Post
I'm simply following the instructions above.

Say you have 3 takes, and they are sliced into 3 parts (total of 9 parts).

You select (comp) the parts you want: take 1 part a, the 2 part b, take 3 part c.

But now I want to select ALL (the entirety of) take 1 (a, b and c).

How to do that without clicking all the parts (a, but and c).

This is what the gif shows, or not.
That GIF in post post #750 may be a bug, but it's not easy to tell what exactly is happening and what are your settings are.

Please, try to distill the situation to a bare minimum, reproducible step-by-step scenario (just a couple of items, couple of take lanes) and file a bug report in an appropriate subforum. Try it with or without grouping, with "Allow selecting empty take lanes" turned on and off.

See my report as an example: https://forum.cockos.com/showpost.ph...&postcount=750
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Old 04-08-2021, 06:16 AM   #758
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Originally Posted by Zargon the Destroyer View Post
But now I want to select ALL (the entirety of) take 1 (a, b and c
Double-clicking the track doesn't select takes, only items. See my diagram so we are clear on what an Item is. How should it know which entirety of which take you want selected when you double-click?

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Please, try to distill the situation to a bare minimum, reproducible step-by-step scenario
Yes please.
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Old 04-08-2021, 06:58 AM   #759
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Double-clicking the track doesn't select takes, only items. See my diagram so we are clear on what an Item is. How should it know which entirety of which take you want selected when you double-click?
Zargon already answered and he understands that. You can see in the capture that after selecting all items by double clicking the track, he then clicks on a take lane three and expects all items to switch to this lane, but items 5 and 7 don't and keep take 4 active. Deciphering the capture is complicated by the fact that the routine is repeated twice and there's a lot of selections and clicks with unclear intentions.
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Old 04-08-2021, 07:07 AM   #760
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Originally Posted by karbomusic View Post
Double-clicking the track doesn't select takes, only items. See my diagram so we are clear on what an Item is. How should it know which entirety of which take you want selected when you double-click?

I don't feel that I can be any clearer, thanks anyway.

Maybe you aren't familiar with the 'select all items in lane's whatever the hell it's called behaviour; I wasn't until recently.
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