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02-18-2021, 02:46 AM
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#561
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Rennes, FR
Posts: 195
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Could the Media Channel Mapper use presets ? It would be efficient to load different presets and be able to deal with the different channel orders standards. For exemple Film to ITU, DTS to ITU mixes or 4.0 to ITU, Film 5.0 to ITU ambiences/FX/Music/Stems etc...
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02-18-2021, 02:56 AM
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#562
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Rennes, FR
Posts: 195
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Morris
Have you tried the ear production suite? I make my ADM files here without issue. Better than having to deal with the dolby renderer imo.
https://ear-production-suite.ebu.io/
Using this until Reaper has it all inside itself.
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Yes, this ADM integration made by The BBC guys is amazing. We also have the MpegH Authoring tools that is another possibility to go to ADM or to MPEGH3D. All that tools are free, should Reaper propose another way to deliver ADM files ?
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02-18-2021, 05:19 AM
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#563
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Moscow / Tbilisi
Posts: 909
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Berg
I find the Auro 3D speakers angles correct...
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Angles only are correct maybe, but placement not. Equal distance rule isn't followed. Speakers should place on circle border and this border should exist, as in ITU schemes.
About monitoring angle values. Yes, it can be helpful sometimes to see single angle value (of selected speaker or source).
Last edited by AZpercussion; 02-18-2021 at 05:29 AM.
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02-18-2021, 06:37 AM
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#564
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Rennes, FR
Posts: 195
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZpercussion
Angles only are correct maybe, but placement not. Equal distance rule isn't followed. Speakers should place on circle border and this border should exist, as in ITU schemes.
About monitoring angle values. Yes, it can be helpful sometimes to see single angle value (of selected speaker or source).
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I would say yes, need this equal distance for the Studio Auro 3D arrangement but no for Auro 3D arrangement mixing for films (theaters), what do you think?
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02-18-2021, 08:06 AM
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#565
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Moscow / Tbilisi
Posts: 909
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Berg
I would say yes, need this equal distance for the Studio Auro 3D arrangement but no for Auro 3D arrangement mixing for films (theaters), what do you think?
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Current Auro scheme looks more like studio and home setup. like ITU
Overall, i guess, the same content plays in cinemas and in home. There is no matter how your panner looks. Just depends on your comfort.
I prefer use both schemes in one project.
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02-18-2021, 10:12 AM
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#566
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Rennes, FR
Posts: 195
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By the way, if we want to create an equidistant speakers arrangement, like ITU ones, we don't have this circle option anymore, if I'm correct. This circle option disappeared but I guess it will come back ?
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02-18-2021, 10:16 AM
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#567
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Montreal
Posts: 95
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Reasurround 2
As I am not used to pre-released build, I’m a bit confused...
I really need this Reasurround 2 for a project that will last for the next few month. So I found it on a pre-release 6.23. I’m just worry because it doesn’t seem to be there on the last pre-release 6.24 neither on the official release 6.23...
I just don’t want to get stuck with a pre-release version for two years...
Is there a way to get reasurround2 in addition to a official release?
Thank you so much! I’m pretty enthousiastic with this Reasurround 2!!!
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02-18-2021, 10:33 AM
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#568
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 586
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I'm a bit late, but...
Want to echo the requests for Atmos support & 128 channels, while realizing it's not something that's going to happen overnight. My worry with using Reaper for post as Atmos gets bigger is the potential need to switch to Nuendo or Pro Tools. Obviously, I and many others have no desire to do such things, so any progress in that direction would be a mega thumbs up. Thanks devs, this panner is dope!
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02-18-2021, 10:35 AM
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#569
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Rennes, FR
Posts: 195
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@Schwa, would it be possible to have the rotate in the automation parameters, so we can learn it for our control surfaces ?
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02-18-2021, 10:47 AM
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#570
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: South, UK
Posts: 14,214
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I don't think reasurround2 will be fully out into the normal build for a few weeks still and it's not settle enough yet to use as automation and use might change.
I would use normal reasurround at first and then add in v2 in a few weeks.
You could risk it if you want though. v2 will probably be in the next pre release build in a few days max.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfbsauve
As I am not used to pre-released build, I’m a bit confused...
I really need this Reasurround 2 for a project that will last for the next few month. So I found it on a pre-release 6.23. I’m just worry because it doesn’t seem to be there on the last pre-release 6.24 neither on the official release 6.23...
I just don’t want to get stuck with a pre-release version for two years...
Is there a way to get reasurround2 in addition to a official release?
Thank you so much! I’m pretty enthousiastic with this Reasurround 2!!!
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__________________
subproject FRs click here
note: don't search for my pseudonym on the web. The "musicbynumbers" you find is not me or the name I use for my own music.
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02-18-2021, 03:47 PM
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#571
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Saskatoon, Canada
Posts: 2,110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfbsauve
As I am not used to pre-released build, I’m a bit confused...
I really need this Reasurround 2 for a project that will last for the next few month. So I found it on a pre-release 6.23. I’m just worry because it doesn’t seem to be there on the last pre-release 6.24 neither on the official release 6.23...
I just don’t want to get stuck with a pre-release version for two years...
Is there a way to get reasurround2 in addition to a official release?
Thank you so much! I’m pretty enthousiastic with this Reasurround 2!!!
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Just to add, the pre-release/dev versions are the ones with the latest and freshest developments. The rc (release candidate) ones remove some of those features that are still in flux and not ready to be released. This means the current build, being an rc does not have the reasurround2 code in it. You can go into the old/ folder to find the last dev build if you want to work/play with it.
My experience is the dev builds are generally very stable and breakage tends to happen in the context of what is being worked on and not the general functioning of the program.
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02-19-2021, 01:01 AM
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#572
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 240
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa
Please post bug reports and feedback here.
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Thanks schwa for all your work on reasurround2. Just catching up on a month's worth of hectic activity in reasurround2. Some things:
I'm using 6.23+dev0215 . Can you please turn the "Z shape" function into a dropdown menu with standard-sized text?
Maybe the other button-menu widgets should also be turned into standard dropdown menus.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice
One thing I noticed right out of the gate is if I'm using reasurround2 to fold down something like 7.1 to stereo, there is no way to place CH3 (Center for example) to the center (or x=0).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonictim
Perhaps there could be a "center" button that would move the puck to the center. Or if center speaker isn't visible (stereo, or quad mode), there could be an alternate icon in its place one could double click and center the puck?
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This highlights several issues.
For downmix to stereo, I usually use "JS: IX/Mixer_8xM-1xS" with Level 4 muted & Pan 3 centered. Make a default preset. It does the job. Use Pin IO routing for >8ch.
For UI changes, you could change the macro knob controls to horizontal sliders (like many other panners) with double-click reset to default XYZ positions & ctrl for fine-tuning in line with most other sliders in the RPR UI. If you must keep them as rotating knobs, please speed up the travel to 2x or 3x speed & again have ctrl to fine-tune. When you need more rotations for full L-to-R movement than the steering wheel of a car (probably), you have a problem.
It's also not possible to have exact speaker placement in "custom speakers" mode, especially as reasurround2 removed speaker XYZ control in automation. Can you also show the speakers in the channel editor button (but only if custom speakers is enabled), and show speaker XYZ as automation (like reasurround1) , so we can have exact XYZ editing of the speaker positions too?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Berg
Yes, this ADM integration made by The BBC guys is amazing. We also have the MpegH Authoring tools that is another possibility to go to ADM or to MPEGH3D. All that tools are free, should Reaper propose another way to deliver ADM files ?
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Yes. ADM was supposed to be a universal standard. However, the current situation is far from ideal. Different tools support different subsets, creating incompatibility. There are currently 2 "types":
- EBU EAR ADM using egocentric/polar/circular coordinates hereby abbreviated to EDM
- Dolby ADM using allocentric/cartesian/cubular coordinates hereby abbreviated to DDM
Currently, you can only make EDM in RPR using EAR. https://github.com/ebu/ear-productio...-still-missing .
The Dolby encoder only accepts DDM, which can only be made using tools like DaVinci Resolve 17 Studio. So it would be nice to make DDM in RPR (especially since reasurround seems to be using a cubular coordinate system) so that I can make (more) deliverables for Dolby Audio in RPR, instead of using other heavyweight tools.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Berg
I would say yes, need this equal distance for the Studio Auro 3D arrangement but no for Auro 3D arrangement mixing for films (theaters), what do you think?
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The official Auro panners are cubular. The current modes in reasurround2 for Auro are also cubular so reflect the official tools.
Also, Do you think it would be a good idea to remove Auro 11.1 & 13.1 modes since:
- Audio 11.1 & 13.1 are supported by the Auro encoder only, but Auro 9.1 (5.1.4) is supported by Dolby, DTSX, and Auro encoders.
- Auro 11.1+ is seldom used in practice, since most new content like films is being made in Atmos-like layouts & hence any Auro deliveries like films will be conversions to 9.1-ish
- Auro 11.1 systems should also be compatible with Auro 9.1
?
Quote:
Originally Posted by svijayrathinam
For a 10 channel reverb.. I am adding 5 stereo reverbs and changing the plugin pin configuration. Loosing a lot of time on this . We definitely need an elegant solution for this .. pls
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There's already a few elegant solutions for reverb. You can simply copypasta your reverb bus across projects. Or you can use FDNreverb https://plugins.iem.at/docs/pluginde...ons/#fdnreverb in the FREE IEM suite https://plugins.iem.at/ , up to 64ch of native multichannel reverb. But FDNreverb uses 2-3x CPU compared to multiple ReaVerbate. So, you decide the approach.
===
I might contact some users here directly about specific topics.
ED: ADM stuffs
Last edited by junh1024; 02-19-2021 at 03:44 AM.
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02-19-2021, 01:18 AM
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#573
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: France
Posts: 914
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Quote:
Originally Posted by junh1024
Yes. ADM was supposed to be a universal standard. However, the current situation is far from ideal. Different tools support different subsets, creating incompatibility. There are currently 2 "types":
- EBU EAR ADM using egocentric/polar/circular coordinates hereby abbreviated to EDM
- Dolby ADM using allocentric/cartesian/cubular coordinates hereby abbreviated to DDM
Currently, you can only make EDM in RPR using EAR. https://github.com/ebu/ear-productio...-still-missing .
The Dolby encoder only accepts DDM, which can only be made using tools like DaVinci Resolve 17 Studio. So it would be nice to make DDM in RPR so that I can make (more) deliverables for Dolby Audio in RPR, instead of using other heavyweight tools.
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Thanks for these explainations!
I have tried to exchange ADM made in Reaper with the Ear suite and the MPEG-H plugin but it was not working.
Is there somewhere a document that lists the ADM compatibilities with Dolby's?
Is it possible to import in a Dolby compatible production the ADM produced by the MPEG-H plugin?
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02-19-2021, 01:40 AM
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#574
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 240
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jm duchenne
Thanks for these explainations!
I have tried to exchange ADM made in Reaper with the Ear suite and the MPEG-H plugin but it was not working.
Is there somewhere a document that lists the ADM compatibilities with Dolby's?
Is it possible to import in a Dolby compatible production the ADM produced by the MPEG-H plugin?
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Looks there might be many "types" of ADM . Main thing DDM vs the rest is the coordinate system. There might be some PDFs floating round about the ADM standard & DDM. Have you tried the reverse aka MPH ADM or DDM imported into EAR?
E: I'm going off other people's explanations of ADM (thank you to those), so my understanding of ADM isn't that great.
Last edited by junh1024; 02-19-2021 at 03:07 AM.
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02-19-2021, 12:02 PM
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#575
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Moscow / Tbilisi
Posts: 909
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Quote:
Originally Posted by junh1024
It's also not possible to have exact speaker placement in "custom speakers" mode, especially as reasurround2 removed speaker XYZ control in automation. Can you also show the speakers in the channel editor button (but only if custom speakers is enabled), and show speaker XYZ as automation (like reasurround1) , so we can have exact XYZ editing of the speaker positions too?
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Yes, this would be useful!
Quote:
Originally Posted by junh1024
The official Auro panners are cubular. The current modes in reasurround2 for Auro are also cubular so reflect the official tools.
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Cubular panners have speakers in corners. Current Auro scheme isn't the same.
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02-22-2021, 05:55 PM
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#576
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 240
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZpercussion
Yes, this would be useful!
Cubular panners have speakers in corners. Current Auro scheme isn't the same.
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Ah yes, you're right. The speakers should be in the corners for the Auro layouts to match the 1st-party Auro panners. Also, are you using custom layouts with reasurround2? What layouts? I might use it with 7.1.6.
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03-04-2021, 06:44 AM
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#577
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: South, UK
Posts: 14,214
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v6.24+dev0303 - March 3 2021
Just getting back into testing reasurround now that it's back on the map again but wanted to also say thanks for the massive push to getting Razor edits to where they are too. That's appreciated and amazing!
It would be great if "Respect XYZ flip" also worked for the scene/anchor midi/OSC control as well.
I think this has been mentioned so please forgive me if it's already on your list
__________________
subproject FRs click here
note: don't search for my pseudonym on the web. The "musicbynumbers" you find is not me or the name I use for my own music.
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03-05-2021, 03:21 AM
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#578
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Rennes, FR
Posts: 195
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+ JS : channel mapper downmixer
+ zero out unmapped output channels
Nice ! thanks
Maybe the possibility to enter the precise values and show them horizontally ?
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03-08-2021, 07:01 AM
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#579
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Moscow / Tbilisi
Posts: 909
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Graphic request
It seems that reasurround 2 close much to finish.
So I refresh my graphic request.
For now reasurround window too big for HD monitors.
In cases when you have only 1 screen, or preserve second for video, it eats too much space.
I think, 16 percent is not too small if we can save it easy.
Also there is some addition visual requests about clear information feedback.
- Main feature: combine faders and meters
- Remove extra empty space
- Reorganize right area of controls to more vertical structure
- Change buttons Reset and Reflect to graphic icons with tooltip
- Move XYZ values under the pan scene
- Add value boxes to each channel. dB label above value boxes depends on selector (gain, influence, delay, diffusion etc).
- Reduce input channel name field a little. Also reduse some buttons width and value fields to fit the text in it.
- Make an option to hide or stay visible muted source puck.
- Muted puck looks like not filled circle.
- Improve Z moving visualisation on top view:
- when puck have Z value more than 0, it looks like a sphere.
- shadow under puck blured and white to get good visibility in back part of scene.
(Areas I invaved or removed is marked by red in bottom picture.)
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03-08-2021, 04:48 PM
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#580
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 240
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZpercussion
For now reasurround window too big for HD monitors.
In cases when you have only 1 screen, or preserve second for video, it eats too much space.
I think, 16 percent is not too small if we can save it easy.
Also there is some addition visual requests about clear information feedback.
- Main feature: combine faders and meters
- Remove extra empty space
- Reorganize right area of controls to more vertical structure
- Change buttons Reset and Reflect to graphic icons with tooltip
- Move XYZ values under the pan scene
- Add value boxes to each channel. dB label above value boxes depends on selector (gain, influence, delay, diffusion etc).
- Reduce input channel name field a little. Also reduse some buttons width and value fields to fit the text in it.
- Make an option to hide or stay visible muted source puck.
- Muted puck looks like not filled circle.
- Improve Z moving visualisation on top view:
- when puck have Z value more than 0, it looks like a sphere.
- shadow under puck blured and white to get good visibility in back part of scene.
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Some good ideas for saving space. Could also make the bottom section with inputs & outputs collapsible.
Also, I think last 2 Auro layouts should not be 5.1.5.1 & 7.1.5.1 , but rather 5.1.6 and 7.1.6 respectively since the "top" layer is very close to the height layer in practice & 4th digit is already used for indicating a bottom layer as per microsoft 8.1.4.4 . See https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/win.../spatial-sound and https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/win...-audio-objects for layout definition.
Last edited by junh1024; 03-08-2021 at 04:55 PM.
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03-09-2021, 01:28 AM
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#581
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Rennes, FR
Posts: 195
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If we want to create our own users, not easy now because we don't see the Loudspeakers angles anymore, and the ITU option with the circle was a good idea to keep equal distances. Maybe this improvement is on the list...
Let's hope other 3D formats will be possible with negative elevation like 22.2 that make ReasurroundPan more universal !
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03-09-2021, 09:47 AM
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#582
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Denmark
Posts: 168
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Haven´t read the whole thread but..
This is my problem (reaper 6.25)
when a track is set to 4 out, I cannot choose 2 input channels in reasurround - It changes to 4
I might be doing something wrong.
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03-09-2021, 10:40 AM
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#583
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: South, UK
Posts: 14,214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audiotect
Haven´t read the whole thread but..
This is my problem (reaper 6.25)
when a track is set to 4 out, I cannot choose 2 input channels in reasurround - It changes to 4
I might be doing something wrong.
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Just test here and seems to work so far.
I set the track to 4 but reasurroundpan to 2 inputs channel and the stereo preset from the dropdown.
Try the latest pre and see if that changes anything..
__________________
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note: don't search for my pseudonym on the web. The "musicbynumbers" you find is not me or the name I use for my own music.
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03-09-2021, 10:54 AM
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#584
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Denmark
Posts: 168
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hmm - It works okay when choosing one of my own presets, but (as an example) when I choose Quadrophonic from the speaker configurations it switches back to 4 input and cannot be changed, only if I change the channel amount on the channel itself.
I cannot replicate what you do.
Best
Søren/audiotect
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03-09-2021, 10:56 AM
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#585
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Administrator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: NY
Posts: 15,750
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I think audiotect is talking about reasurround classic, not the new reasurroundpan plugin? The next build will update reasurround classic to prevent the behavior audiotect is describing.
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03-09-2021, 12:41 PM
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#586
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: South, UK
Posts: 14,214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa
I think audiotect is talking about reasurround classic, not the new reasurroundpan plugin? The next build will update reasurround classic to prevent the behavior audiotect is describing.
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Ah all good!
__________________
subproject FRs click here
note: don't search for my pseudonym on the web. The "musicbynumbers" you find is not me or the name I use for my own music.
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03-09-2021, 12:58 PM
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#587
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Denmark
Posts: 168
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I am!
sorry (but still not working..)
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03-09-2021, 01:02 PM
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#588
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Moscow / Tbilisi
Posts: 909
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Quote:
Originally Posted by junh1024
Could also make the bottom section with inputs & outputs collapsible.
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Yes, this would be useful. There is space for collapse button under center and side % sliders.
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03-09-2021, 01:16 PM
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#589
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 13,333
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audiotect
I am!
sorry (but still not working..)
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Because there is no the next build yet?
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03-09-2021, 07:40 PM
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#590
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 377
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ReaSurround
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiotect
Haven´t read the whole thread but..
This is my problem (reaper 6.25)
when a track is set to 4 out, I cannot choose 2 input channels in reasurround - It changes to 4
I might be doing something wrong.
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Concur, same here.
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03-10-2021, 12:51 AM
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#592
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 981
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Hi Schwa,
A small Suggestion regarding the Reasurround 2 UI. When the pan pucks are placed in such a way that its touching the speakers...the numbers on the pucks is not visible. Its quite tricky when you have like 5 or 6 pucks. I think it would be better to see the numbers more clearly regardless of the pan pucks positions.
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03-10-2021, 02:41 AM
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#593
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Rennes, FR
Posts: 195
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+ ReaSurroundPan: support entering channel position angles
+ ReaSurroundPan: support entering position/angles for user speaker setups
thanks Schwa !
I just saw a bug for the 5.1 ITU, LS and Rs should be at -110° / +110°, they're now at 100°.
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03-10-2021, 03:01 AM
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#594
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Rennes, FR
Posts: 195
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Just a detail : when using custom speakers, the lock (loudspeakers) function could also make the loudspeakers numbers disappear, it would be easier to read.
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03-10-2021, 03:55 AM
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#595
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Rennes, FR
Posts: 195
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Question : why the rotate function is inversed ?
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03-10-2021, 05:15 AM
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#596
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: South, UK
Posts: 14,214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Berg
I just saw a bug for the 5.1 ITU, LS and Rs should be at -110° / +110°, they're now at 100°.
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Good catch!
__________________
subproject FRs click here
note: don't search for my pseudonym on the web. The "musicbynumbers" you find is not me or the name I use for my own music.
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03-10-2021, 10:31 AM
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#597
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Rennes, FR
Posts: 195
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I am quite sceptical with the different Auro 3D presets, as they are configured now, we should use the equal distance with the circle, like ITU presets. Those are Auro 3D studio presets. That doesn't make any sense in Auro 3D presets for Cinema to have the -30° or +30° L and R loudspeakers, those should be like 5.1 preset at -45° and +45°.
I think we should have this speakers arrangement for Auro 3D 13.1 Cinema :
https://www.dropbox.com/s/cos29wqodv...inema.png?dl=0
What do you guys think ?
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03-10-2021, 11:12 AM
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#598
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Rennes, FR
Posts: 195
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Trying to implement a 6.1 film loudspeakers arrangement from the 5.1 film, it doesn't work. See above what we get :
https://www.dropbox.com/s/qxnvfsq36j...0Film.png?dl=0
We should have equal CS/RS levels at +50=XYZ.
Any idea how to fix it ?
Maybe then it could be useful to have a 6.1 film format preset that respects the pan law at the rear.
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03-10-2021, 11:29 AM
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#599
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Administrator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: NY
Posts: 15,750
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I do get exactly equal panning in that scenario. I would guess your center rear speaker is not positioned exactly in the center, or maybe the right rear speaker influence is set higher than the center rear? Or maybe the input puck is fractionally to the right of +50 ... I'd expect to see atan(0.5)=+153(.435..) degrees at +50,-100 but I see +154 in your screenshot.
Last edited by schwa; 03-10-2021 at 11:38 AM.
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03-10-2021, 01:07 PM
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#600
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Moscow / Tbilisi
Posts: 909
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Berg
I just saw a bug for the 5.1 ITU, LS and Rs should be at -110° / +110°, they're now at 100°.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Berg
I am quite sceptical with the different Auro 3D presets, as they are configured now, we should use the equal distance with the circle, like ITU presets. Those are Auro 3D studio presets. That doesn't make any sense in Auro 3D presets for Cinema to have the -30° or +30° L and R loudspeakers, those should be like 5.1 preset at -45° and +45°.
I think we should have this speakers arrangement for Auro 3D 13.1 Cinema :
https://www.dropbox.com/s/cos29wqodv...inema.png?dl=0
What do you guys think ?
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Agreed. Exactly! We told about these moments above.
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