Old 08-29-2019, 02:24 PM   #4361
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Originally Posted by Mr. Green View Post
That seems very odd to me, especially given that the majority of these controllers are *literally* MIDI devices.

Do you know of any way its controls can be intercepted for remapping within Reaper?

And honestly, the reason I am asking is because there is already a fantastic MIDI to FXParameter linking system (LBX Smart Knobs) available NOW in Reaper - complete with an easy to use, polished GUI, and a simple, on-the-fly way to link parameters and keep them saved for global use. It reminds me a bit of Studio One's implementation of that, which is a good thing.

What it DOESN'T do, however, is offer the means of creating complex user layouts, design, and customization of the hardware itself - which is the crowning achievement here at the CSI project.

It's like you each have managed to cover opposite sides of an equally challenging spectrum (well, maybe not totally "equally", but you get my point).

...and it's KILLING me that the two are unable to communicate with each other! :-(
Well, that IS the problem, they are Midi devices.

Recall that using the Midi protocol for surface control is a bastardization, it is reworked to mean different things -- for instance it is folly to talk about surface control using names like cc, it's 0x90, just a control number.

Likewise midi channels aren't midi channels, just control numbers.

Now 0x90 happens to be note on.

It also happens to be the most used number for buttons.

So, unless you were very lucky, pressing buttons will causes instruments to play, and playing interments will change the control surface -- YIKES

If you don't use ANY midi instruments you might get way with it, try it, can't break anything...
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Old 08-29-2019, 02:41 PM   #4362
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Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Well, that IS the problem, they are Midi devices.

Recall that using the Midi protocol for surface control is a bastardization, it is reworked to mean different things -- for instance it is folly to talk about surface control using names like cc, it's 0x90, just a control number.

Likewise midi channels aren't midi channels, just control numbers.

Now 0x90 happens to be note on.

It also happens to be the most used number for buttons.

So, unless you were very lucky, pressing buttons will causes instruments to play, and playing interments will change the control surface -- YIKES

If you don't use ANY midi instruments you might get way with it, try it, can't break anything...
Well, with SmarKnobs, you actually choose what interface you wish to receive input from, so your midi keyboard is isolated from the flow. I've already tried out mapping my XTouch Mini to various things, and started trying out the Console 1 - which was working as well - but not having the layering capability and a few other "control surface channel strip" options, it became very worthwhile to invest the time into your project here to explore other possibilities.

I don't know how familiar you are with the SmartKnobs thing, as it's still in it's infancy too, but here's a small visual demo...

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Old 08-29-2019, 04:14 PM   #4363
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I'm afraid it doesn't. Each parameter has to be re-linked with an adjustment manually.

edit: interestingly, even loading a new patch doesn't fix it. It's like none of the parameters will actually begin to stick until they have been physically moved at some point, after which they continue to function as expected. So loading presets and copying fx are where the issue arises.
btw - In case this helps to know, I went back to my old SmartKnobs configuration I had setup for the Console 1 hardware to see if it exhibited the same behavior. And it does.
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Old 08-29-2019, 04:25 PM   #4364
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btw - In case this helps to know, I went back to my old SmartKnobs configuration I had setup for the Console 1 hardware to see if it exhibited the same behavior. And it does.
Thanks, looks more like a Reaper thing then.
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Old 08-29-2019, 04:26 PM   #4365
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New build is up.

Fixes nasty crash if Navigator is missing from FX Zone file.
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Old 08-29-2019, 04:43 PM   #4366
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Thanks, looks more like a Reaper thing then.
I'm trying to find a way to maybe send some kind of "nudge" to all the mapped parameters followed by a Reaper "Undo" command. Theoretically it could work, as it works doing it manually. :-)
Do you think this might be possible?
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Old 08-29-2019, 05:01 PM   #4367
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Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
WOW, you got there quickly !

In order for Reaper to cause the OSC surface to go to the right page, it must be named explicitly and EXACTLY -- it's the equivalent of the FX name in the .zon file -- it must be exact.

So, since spaces are disallowed, you end up with the same as the filename, a pretty ugly thing.

Now, think url.

You will see things like

Code:
Widget Home/ShowFXWindows
	Control /Home/ShowFXWindows
	FB_Processor /Home/ShowFXWindows
WidgetEnd

Widget VST__UAD_Ampeg_SVTVR_Classic__Universal_Audio__Inc__/Input
	Control /VST__UAD_Ampeg_SVTVR_Classic__Universal_Audio__Inc__/Input
	FB_Processor /VST__UAD_Ampeg_SVTVR_Classic__Universal_Audio__Inc__/Input
WidgetEnd

Zone Home
	OnTrackSelection MapSelectedTrackFXToWidgets
	Home/ShowFXWindows SetShowFXWindows
ZoneEnd

Zone "VST: UAD Lexicon 224 (Universal Audio, Inc.)"
	SelectedTrackNavigator
	VST__UAD_Lexicon_224__Universal_Audio__Inc__/Program FXParam 0
	VST__UAD_Lexicon_224__Universal_Audio__Inc__/Bass FXParam 1
	VST__UAD_Lexicon_224__Universal_Audio__Inc__/Mid FXParam 2
	VST__UAD_Lexicon_224__Universal_Audio__Inc__/Crossover FXParam 3
	VST__UAD_Lexicon_224__Universal_Audio__Inc__/Treble_Decay FXParam 4
	VST__UAD_Lexicon_224__Universal_Audio__Inc__/Depth FXParam 5
	Toggle+VST__UAD_Lexicon_224__Universal_Audio__Inc__/Rear_Outs FXParam 10
	Toggle+VST__UAD_Lexicon_224__Universal_Audio__Inc__/Mode_Enh FXParam 13
	Toggle+VST__UAD_Lexicon_224__Universal_Audio__Inc__/Decay_Opt FXParam 16
	Toggle+VST__UAD_Lexicon_224__Universal_Audio__Inc__/Wet_Solo FXParam 12
ZoneEnd
Looks a bit intimidating, but if you treat the part before the slash as a url, most of which you ignore, you see the actual familiar structure -- Program FXParam 0, etc.

OK, now use the editor to load the .touchosc layouts in CSI/Touch OSC Layouts

Now take a look at CSI/Surfaces/OSC/TouchOSC.ost

See how the names cross-reference.

OK last part, take a look at CSI/Zones/TouchOSCPad.zon and CSI/Zones/TouchOSCPhone.zon, see how this works ?

It's really the same as Midi, just a little bent -- you end up with a larger .ost file as compared to Midi, and you also need to make pages for the OSC device.


Yours will look a lot simpler for the C4 screen

Code:
Widget Home/RotaryD1
	Control /Home/RotaryD1
	FB_Processor /Home/RotaryD1
WidgetEnd

Zone Home
	Home/RotaryD1 someAction
ZoneEnd
Let me know how it goes.
I sure that all makes sense, but I'm lost....

I started to reverse engineer to try and understand whats going on,

but did you say the FXzone files will need to be different for OSC and MIDI
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Old 08-29-2019, 05:15 PM   #4368
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but did you say the FXzone files will need to be different for OSC and MIDI
Well, technically they don't need to be, but in order to support TouchOSC automatically loading the right Page they do.

As far as lost, think about how you felt at first with Midi, now I bet it seems almost natural

Please feel free to ask away.

Getting started on the right foot is important, there are no bad questions.

It's basically just a matter of matching names up, it's pretty easy once you get going.

As far as making sense, maybe start at the familiar place, the .zon file.

You always need a Widget name, the OSC one just looks like a url.

Make note of it and trace back to the .ost file.

There you will find a Widget definition.

Notice the control and FB_Processors definitions.

Now open the appropriate file in the OSC editor.

Click on a control.

See how the control names map to the Widgets ?

Don't forget you can go to other Pages by clicking the tab panel at the top of the editor, it's a bit hard to see -- very dark.

Once again, please ask away.
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Old 08-29-2019, 05:26 PM   #4369
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Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
New build is up.

Fixes nasty crash if Navigator is missing from FX Zone file.
lol - thx!
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Old 08-29-2019, 06:01 PM   #4370
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Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Well, technically they don't need to be, but in order to support TouchOSC automatically loading the right Page they do.
What I'm looking to do is have a C4Emu that I can test FXZones for the C4 on, when I'm at home.

Here what I've messed about with,

I made a rough of the controls of the C4 in TouchOSC Editor, (included Play & Stop FOR CHECKING ITS WORKING)
the controls are labelled /1/RotaryA1, /1/RotaryPushA1 and so on.

I made a surface C4Emu.ost

I made a C4OSC folder and made a C4OSC.zon (in that there are only STOP PLAY CLICK and CYCLE)


In reaper I'm seeing the input data as above, but as I've said, I was hoping to be able to put an FX.zone in the C4OSC folder and be able to test it.
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Old 08-29-2019, 06:11 PM   #4371
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Originally Posted by Freex View Post
What I'm looking to do is have a C4Emu that I can test FXZones for the C4 on, when I'm at home.

Here what I've messed about with,

I made a rough of the controls of the C4 in TouchOSC Editor, (included Play & Stop FOR CHECKING ITS WORKING)
the controls are labelled /1/RotaryA1, /1/RotaryPushA1 and so on.

I made a surface C4Emu.ost

I made a C4OSC folder and made a C4OSC.zon (in that there are only STOP PLAY CLICK and CYCLE)


In reaper I'm seeing the input data as above, but as I've said, I was hoping to be able to put an FX.zone in the C4OSC folder and be able to test it.
Ah, OK, if you don't need automatic loading just use Widget definitions like this:

Code:
Widget RotaryA1
        Control /1/RotaryA1
        FB_Processor /1/RotaryA1
WidgetEnd
Then you can use the FX .zon files you already have.
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Old 08-29-2019, 06:16 PM   #4372
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Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Unfortunately, as you can see, OSC Widget names have a url like structure with / characters.

You can't really use one on place of the other, unless you rename all the Midi Widgets to look like the OSC widgets.
would that not be a good idea?

It would make FXZone universal?

Would we even notice?
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Old 08-29-2019, 06:22 PM   #4373
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would that not be a good idea?

It would make FXZone universal?

Would we even notice?
It would be a great idea, but that precludes autoloading the FX on the OSC devices as shown in the video.

Indeed the original intent was to have them universal, then the possibility of having the Pages autoload was discovered

By the way please re-read the previous, now edited post, you can do what you want easily.
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Old 08-29-2019, 06:44 PM   #4374
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Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
It would be a great idea, but that precludes autoloading the FX on the OSC devices as shown in the video.

Indeed the original intent was to have them universal, then the possibility of having the Pages autoload was discovered

By the way please re-read the previous, now edited post, you can do what you want easily.
Thanks I'll try that out tomorrow evening. zzzz
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Old 08-29-2019, 08:01 PM   #4375
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Geoff, is it possible to map controls to a single fx on a single track, regardless of focus or track selection?
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Old 08-29-2019, 09:30 PM   #4376
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Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
New build is up.

Fixes nasty crash if Navigator is missing from FX Zone file.
dang, what did I miss in the last 5 pages? I tried the new one and none of my pages are there lol
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Old 08-30-2019, 02:19 AM   #4377
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Geoff, is it possible to map controls to a single fx on a single track, regardless of focus or track selection?
Hmmm...

Analgous to Pinned Tracks -- Pinned FX -- on a Pinned Track of course -- sounds interesting, let's think about it...
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Old 08-30-2019, 02:20 AM   #4378
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Originally Posted by poetnprophet View Post
dang, what did I miss in the last 5 pages? I tried the new one and none of my pages are there lol
Yeah, it's not so bad -- CSI.ini is broken, just take a look at the new one in the build, it's basically adding 1 thing to Page definitions and a bunch of stuff at the end of Surface definitions.
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Old 08-30-2019, 05:10 AM   #4379
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New build is up.

Turns out we don't need the long form of the address, so the files for OSC look a LOT cleaner.

The FX Page names themselves still have to be ugly in order for autoload to work, but you only see those when you edit the .touchosc files, the .ost and .zon files are MUCH easier on the eyes, and look a lot more familiar.

Thank @Freex for getting me to push a bit more
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Old 08-30-2019, 06:38 AM   #4380
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Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Hmmm...

Analgous to Pinned Tracks -- Pinned FX -- on a Pinned Track of course -- sounds interesting, let's think about it...
Big possibilities if this is doable. :-)

Edit: how do you pin a track?

Last edited by Mr. Green; 08-30-2019 at 06:46 AM.
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Old 08-30-2019, 07:11 AM   #4381
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Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
New build is up.

Turns out we don't need the long form of the address, so the files for OSC look a LOT cleaner.

The FX Page names themselves still have to be ugly in order for autoload to work, but you only see those when you edit the .touchosc files, the .ost and .zon files are MUCH easier on the eyes, and look a lot more familiar.

Thank @Freex for getting me to push a bit more
You're very welcome, I'm always here if you need extra work. 😊

Will the new build affect that widget definition you posted for the C4?
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Old 08-30-2019, 08:29 AM   #4382
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Originally Posted by Mr. Green View Post
Big possibilities if this is doable. :-)

Edit: how do you pin a track?
Code:
Zone Channel|1-8
	TrackNavigator
	DisplayUpper|  TrackNameDisplay
	DisplayLower|  TrackPanDisplay
	TrackTouch+DisplayLower|  TrackVolumeDisplay
	RotaryPush| GoZone PanWidth|
	Rotary| TrackPan 0
	RecordArm|  TrackRecordArm
	Solo|  TrackSolo
	Mute| TrackMute
	Select|  TrackUniqueSelect
	Shift+Select|  TrackRangeSelect
	Control+Select|  TrackSelect
	Shift+Control+Select| TogglePin
	Fader|  TrackVolume
	TrackTouch+Fader|  TrackVolume
	FaderTouch|  TrackTouch
ZoneEnd
Note that the button has to be in a Channel, otherwise it wouldn't know which Track to Pin
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Old 08-30-2019, 08:35 AM   #4383
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Originally Posted by Freex View Post
Will the new build affect that widget definition you posted for the C4?
Yes, slightly:

old
Code:
Widget RotaryA1
        Control /1/RotaryA1
        FB_Processor /1/RotaryA1
WidgetEnd
new
Code:
Widget RotaryA1
        Control /RotaryA1
        FB_Processor /RotaryA1
WidgetEnd
You will also have to uncheck the autogenerate OSC address checkbox in the TouchOSC editor, and make the address look like the examples in the included .touchosc files.
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Old 08-30-2019, 09:32 AM   #4384
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Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Code:
Zone Channel|1-8
	TrackNavigator
	DisplayUpper|  TrackNameDisplay
	DisplayLower|  TrackPanDisplay
	TrackTouch+DisplayLower|  TrackVolumeDisplay
	RotaryPush| GoZone PanWidth|
	Rotary| TrackPan 0
	RecordArm|  TrackRecordArm
	Solo|  TrackSolo
	Mute| TrackMute
	Select|  TrackUniqueSelect
	Shift+Select|  TrackRangeSelect
	Control+Select|  TrackSelect
	Shift+Control+Select| TogglePin
	Fader|  TrackVolume
	TrackTouch+Fader|  TrackVolume
	FaderTouch|  TrackTouch
ZoneEnd
Note that the button has to be in a Channel, otherwise it wouldn't know which Track to Pin
So when you move on to a different set of channels, does the pinned channel remain pinned on the controller while others enter the zone?

Also, Since the Console 1 is a single channel unit, how would I apply a pin to a channel?

Referring to your example above, "Zone Channel|1-8", I was under the impression that the word "Channel" was simply designating the name of the zone. Does the name "Channel" carry additional significance beyond that?
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Old 08-30-2019, 09:38 AM   #4385
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In a nutshell, I would like to set it up so that the Home zone and Send zones respond to selected channels, while the FXFocused zone stays "pinned" to the first fx on the first track of the session.
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Old 08-30-2019, 10:05 AM   #4386
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So when you move on to a different set of channels, does the pinned channel remain pinned on the controller while others enter the zone?

Also, Since the Console 1 is a single channel unit, how would I apply a pin to a channel?

Referring to your example above, "Zone Channel|1-8", I was under the impression that the word "Channel" was simply designating the name of the zone. Does the name "Channel" carry additional significance beyond that?
A Pinned Channel stays Pinned to a particular Track, while the Channels around it bank normally.

It makes no sense on a Console1 as you say.

So my idea that a Pinned FX needs a Pinned Track is flawed.

We should just build so, as you say, Focused FX can be Pinned.

Let me think about how easy that is to do...
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Old 08-30-2019, 10:29 AM   #4387
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Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Yes, slightly:

old
Code:
Widget RotaryA1
        Control /1/RotaryA1
        FB_Processor /1/RotaryA1
WidgetEnd
new
Code:
Widget RotaryA1
        Control /RotaryA1
        FB_Processor /RotaryA1
WidgetEnd
You will also have to uncheck the autogenerate OSC address checkbox in the TouchOSC editor, and make the address look like the examples in the included .touchosc files.

Now this time I do understand lol.
Thanks
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Old 08-30-2019, 10:43 AM   #4388
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A Pinned Channel stays Pinned to a particular Track, while the Channels around it bank normally.

It makes no sense on a Console1 as you say.

So my idea that a Pinned FX needs a Pinned Track is flawed.

We should just build so, as you say, Focused FX can be Pinned.

Let me think about how easy that is to do...
If it were at all possible, an ideal approach for my use would be something along the lines of "PinFX T1 S1", "PinFX T1 S2", etc (track/slot)

edit: corrected / channel=track
so maybe a better fit for the CSI paradigm would be, "PinFX Track1 Slot1", "PinFX Track1 Slot2", etc.

Last edited by Mr. Green; 08-30-2019 at 11:37 AM.
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Old 08-30-2019, 12:02 PM   #4389
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Green View Post
If it were at all possible, an ideal approach for my use would be something along the lines of "PinFX T1 S1", "PinFX T1 S2", etc (track/slot)

edit: corrected / channel=track
so maybe a better fit for the CSI paradigm would be, "PinFX Track1 Slot1", "PinFX Track1 Slot2", etc.
Well, after pondering this a bit, we are really talking about the concept of Pin Zone, not just FX.

TogglePin gets renamed to TogglePinTrack.

TogglePinZone gets added.

Now just have to work through the ramifications internally, but I think it's doable.
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Old 08-30-2019, 12:31 PM   #4390
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Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Well, after pondering this a bit, we are really talking about the concept of Pin Zone, not just FX.

TogglePin gets renamed to TogglePinTrack.

TogglePinZone gets added.

Now just have to work through the ramifications internally, but I think it's doable.
Curious to see where you're going with that. With a pinned zone, would it therefore be possible to define the track and fx slot as well?
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Old 08-30-2019, 12:48 PM   #4391
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Curious to see where you're going with that. With a pinned zone, would it therefore be possible to define the track and fx slot as well?
That happens automatically, you just TogglePinZone.

If the Zone has no navigators, it just Pins.

If it has a Track Navigator, it Pins the Track.

If it has a Slot (Sends/FX) it Pins that too.

You don't think about all of this, you just TogglePInZone.

Actually, let's start out with TogglePinFocusedFXZone just to get going.

Still pondering...
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Old 08-30-2019, 01:15 PM   #4392
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That happens automatically, you just TogglePinZone.

If the Zone has no navigators, it just Pins.

If it has a Track Navigator, it Pins the Track.

If it has a Slot (Sends/FX) it Pins that too.

You don't think about all of this, you just TogglePInZone.

Actually, let's start out with TogglePinFocusedFXZone just to get going.

Still pondering...
Sounds good! So to be clear, what I am hoping to do (eventually) would be able to control the FXParameters of a given fx in the pinned zone without it needing to be either opened or focused. Just always on in that zone.

Last edited by Mr. Green; 08-30-2019 at 01:26 PM.
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Old 08-30-2019, 01:50 PM   #4393
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Hey Geoff,

I've made progress.... (small steps working on 2 knobs A1 & A2)

I have
2 working DisplayUpper
2 working DisplayLower
2 working rotaries

But the RotaryPush is giving me trouble...
I have it as a Push Button the FB is working as i can see on/off on table when i make change in reaper but doesn't work from tablet.
Although I see the input being sent.
C4emu /RotaryPushA1 1.000000
C4emu /RotaryPushA1 0.000000

any ideas

Last edited by Freex; 08-30-2019 at 01:55 PM.
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Old 08-30-2019, 02:05 PM   #4394
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Sounds good! So to be clear, what I am hoping to do (eventually) would be able to control the FXParameters of a given fx in the pinned zone without it needing to be either opened or focused. Just always on in that zone.
Well you would have to focus it at project load, then Pin it.

It would then stay Pinned until you exited the project.
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Old 08-30-2019, 02:09 PM   #4395
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Originally Posted by Freex View Post
Hey Geoff,

I've made progress.... (small steps working on 2 knobs A1 & A2)

I have
2 working DisplayUpper
2 working DisplayLower
2 working rotaries

But the RotaryPush is giving me trouble...
I have it as a Push Button the FB is working as i can see on/off on table when i make change in reaper but doesn't work from tablet.
Although I see the input being sent.
C4emu /RotaryPushA1 1.000000
C4emu /RotaryPushA1 0.000000

any ideas
Cool, progress.

Have a look at the example .touchosc files, see how the pushbuttons are set up, no local feedback checked, etc. and match those properties, see if that works for you.
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Old 08-30-2019, 02:28 PM   #4396
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Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Cool, progress.

Have a look at the example .touchosc files, see how the pushbuttons are set up, no local feedback checked, etc. and match those properties, see if that works for you.
I'm obviously doing something wrong somewhere,

is this right in the surface?
Quote:
Widget RotaryPushA1
Press /RotaryPushA1
FB_Processor /RotaryPushA1
WidgetEnd

I changed it from Press to Control (like in yours)
I'm now seeing it work, IF I hold the button, but it's not staying on?
Should it be a toggle?

I thought the "Toggle+" in the FX.zone got around that? Or is that only relevant to Midi?

Last edited by Freex; 08-30-2019 at 02:37 PM.
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Old 08-30-2019, 02:37 PM   #4397
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I'm obviously doing something wrong somewhere,

is this right in the surface?
That looks right if the Widgets are named correctly in the .touchosc file.

Also the properties should look like the .zip file pic enclosed.

Do you have Toggle+ preceding the Widget names pin the.zon file ?
Attached Files
File Type: zip Screen Shot 2019-08-30 at 6.31.27 PM.zip (25.8 KB, 13 views)
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Old 08-30-2019, 02:38 PM   #4398
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freex View Post
I'm obviously doing something wrong somewhere,

is this right in the surface?



I changed it from Press to Control (like in yours)
I'm now seeing it work, IF I hold the button, but it's not staying on?
Should it be a toggle?

I thought the "Toggle+" in the FX.zone got around that? Or is that only relevant to Midi?
Aha, check properties .zip pic in previous post, you'll see what's wrong
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Old 08-30-2019, 02:54 PM   #4399
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Not seeing it, I've tried it as send on press, send on release, both on, both off makes no difference?
Surface
Quote:
Widget RotaryPushA1
Control /RotaryPushA1
FB_Processor /RotaryPushA1
WidgetEnd

Zone
Quote:
Zone Home
OnTrackSelection MapSelectedTrackFXToWidgets
OnFXFocus MapFocusedTrackFXToWidgets

Stop Stop
Play Play
Cycle CycleTimeline
Click Reaper 40364


ZoneEnd


FXZone
Quote:

Zone "VST: FabFilter Pro-Q 3 (FabFilter)" "Fab-Q3"
SelectedTrackNavigator



DisplayUpperA1 FXParamNameDisplay 2 "Freq 1"
DisplayLowerA1 FXParamValueDisplay 2
RotaryA1 FXParam 2
Toggle+RotaryPushA1 FXParam 358

DisplayUpperA2 FXParamNameDisplay 3 "Gain"
DisplayLowerA2 FXParamValueDisplay 3
RotaryA2 FXParam 3
Toggle+RotaryPushA2 FXParam 0
ZoneEnd

Last edited by Freex; 08-30-2019 at 03:10 PM.
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Old 08-30-2019, 03:04 PM   #4400
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Not seeing it, I've tried it as send on press, send on release, both on, both off makes no difference?
Well, if it works if you hold it, that's another way of saying it stops when you release it, so make sure Send on 'Release' is NOT checked.

Send on 'Press' should be checked.

Local feedback off should be checked.

You also need Toggle+ in front of Widget names in the .zon file, just like Midi.
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