Old 08-07-2019, 11:20 AM   #3801
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Does it need to have a unique GoZone name? Then from within the FXMenu it's just GoZone...
Would the FXmenu not be enough?

GoZoneFx doesn't really do it IMHO either.

Last edited by Freex; 08-07-2019 at 11:27 AM.
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Old 08-07-2019, 11:30 AM   #3802
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Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Yes, well, Slot actually.
Ah, ok, I'm with you now I'd go with GoFXSlot, because from that point it's implicit that the Zone loaded will be the one associated with the FX in that slot, if that makes sense

Quote:
This is the first way of managing FX that allows for more than one instance of the same FX on a Track
OnFocus does this too

BTW Thanks for fixing the scrolling, selecting a track on the surface now puts it on the left hand end of the on screen mixer when ToggleScroll link is activated.
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Old 08-07-2019, 11:49 AM   #3803
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Does it need to have a unique GoZone name? Then from within the FXMenu it's just GoZone...
Would the FXmenu not be enough?
Well you still need an Action for RotaryPush.

The Action can't be GoZone, because GoZone requires the Zone name, and in this case it's the Slot.
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Old 08-07-2019, 11:53 AM   #3804
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New Configurator with scroll bar for raw fx params.

Last edited by MixMonkey; 09-11-2019 at 06:23 AM.
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Old 08-07-2019, 11:53 AM   #3805
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Ah, ok, I'm with you now I'd go with GoFXSlot, because from that point it's implicit that the Zone loaded will be the one associated with the FX in that slot, if that makes sense
There ya' go

GoFXSlot it is.

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OnFocus does this too
Yes, OK it is the second , OK, well actually, ALL of them do it EXCEPT Selected

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BTW Thanks for fixing the scrolling, selecting a track on the surface now puts it on the left hand end of the on screen mixer when ToggleScroll link is activated.
Cool, and thanks to @poetnprophet for pointing back to the working implementation.
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Old 08-07-2019, 04:41 PM   #3806
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Originally Posted by MixMonkey View Post
New Configurator with scroll bar for raw fx params.
Just had a quick look at this, very nice indeed !!
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Old 08-07-2019, 04:49 PM   #3807
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Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Well you still need an Action for RotaryPush.

The Action can't be GoZone, because GoZone requires the Zone name, and in this case it's the Slot.
I'll take your word for it, over my head I'm afraid, lol



Anyone know what you can do, if you find a plugin with 4 "On"params?

Apart from just use it by hand.

No even a plugin I use, but just came across it and onc you use one "On the rest disappear, if you manually insert them into the zon file with note++ all the buttons work the one onscreen button.

Poor code i guess.

What about double wet? Reaper Wet and plugin Wet?
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Old 08-07-2019, 05:05 PM   #3808
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I'll take your word for it, over my head I'm afraid, lol



Anyone know what you can do, if you find a plugin with 4 "On"params?

Apart from just use it by hand.

No even a plugin I use, but just came across it and onc you use one "On the rest disappear, if you manually insert them into the zon file with note++ all the buttons work the one onscreen button.

Poor code i guess.

What about double wet? Reaper Wet and plugin Wet?

Good suggestion about the scrollbar on the Configurator, nice to be able to have a quick look through what's available

As to the plugins that have multiple parameters with the same name, I'm afraid we're a bit stuffed. If you really want to map one of these, you can run it inside BlueCat Patchwork and assign its automation hooks via the Patchwork auto system.

The reason the identical names don't cause more trouble outside of CSI is the fact that DAW automation systems use the internal plugin automation indexes to assign the parameters, not the external names.

Unless there's a way that Geoff can give us access to those indexes, it is what it is i'm afraid
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Old 08-07-2019, 05:19 PM   #3809
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What about double wet? Reaper Wet and plugin Wet?
This turns up all the time. As far as I can tell, if there's a plugin parameter called 'wet' it'll take precedence over the Reaper one, for no other good reason than it comes first in the list. Same applies to 'bypass'.

BTW Sorry I completely missed your pm from a few days ago. I never think to look for them (actually you're the first person who's ever sent me a pm)
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Old 08-07-2019, 05:28 PM   #3810
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Posted this before, my personal favourite in the plugin parameter hall of shame, Taupe from Acustica:
Code:
VST: TAUPE (Acqua)
Mix 5
Mix 10
Mix 3
Mix 1
Mix 2
Mix 1
Mix 1
Mix 3
Mix 9
Mix 10
Mix 2
Mix 1
Mix 3
Mix 2
Mix 1
Mix 1
Mix 2
Mix 6
Mix 3
Mix 4
Mix 9
Mix 1
Mix 2
Mix 5
Mix 7
Mix 8
Bypass
Wet
Mapped using BlueCat Patchwork
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Old 08-07-2019, 05:37 PM   #3811
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Originally Posted by MixMonkey View Post
Posted this before, my personal favourite in the plugin parameter hall of shame, Taupe from Acustica:
Code:
VST: TAUPE (Acqua)
Mix 5
Mix 10
Mix 3
Mix 1
Mix 2
Mix 1
Mix 1
Mix 3
Mix 9
Mix 10
Mix 2
Mix 1
Mix 3
Mix 2
Mix 1
Mix 1
Mix 2
Mix 6
Mix 3
Mix 4
Mix 9
Mix 1
Mix 2
Mix 5
Mix 7
Mix 8
Bypass
Wet
Mapped using BlueCat Patchwork

I thought 4 "on" was lazy, but that's just insane. I hadn't realised before that there were so many repeats.


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Originally Posted by MixMonkey View Post

BTW Sorry I completely missed your pm from a few days ago. I never think to look for them (actually you're the first person who's ever sent me a pm)
No worries the post you put up of your C4 blanks got me going, thanks.

And the scroll on the raw text is prefect, actually the whole thing makes the takes so much less taxing.
It's idiot proof, I'm proof lol
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Old 08-07-2019, 05:43 PM   #3812
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I thought 4 "on" was lazy, but that's just insane. I hadn't realised before that there were so many repeats.
It's not something high on list for plugin manufacturers. Maybe CSI will push it up that list

Like the avatar btw
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Old 08-07-2019, 05:45 PM   #3813
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Originally Posted by MixMonkey View Post
As to the plugins that have multiple parameters with the same name, I'm afraid we're a bit stuffed. If you really want to map one of these, you can run it inside BlueCat Patchwork and assign its automation hooks via the Patchwork auto system.

The reason the identical names don't cause more trouble outside of CSI is the fact that DAW automation systems use the internal plugin automation indexes to assign the parameters, not the external names.

Unless there's a way that Geoff can give us access to those indexes, it is what it is i'm afraid
Well, there is a way to get access to those indexes, but.....

It will require an FXZone format change...

The original thinking was to simplify the file formats as much as possible for the user.

That's why we used FXParam Name.

It'a actually a PITA code wise.

FX don't allow you to query an index unless the FX is live -- that is you have a working instance of it inserted somewhere.

What really happens is the Zone Activation on a particular FX (yay, we have a live one) causes the FXParam name to be used to look up the index, but as you point out it takes the first one it encounters.

Now, I doubt I would mention this if folks had to enter this manually -- too much room for error, but we have an opportunity to fix this now that you've done such great work with the Configurator tool.

Here's what I propose for the new format:

Code:
Zone "VST: ReaComp (Cockos)"
	SelectedTrackNavigator
	Threshold FXParam 0 Thresh "Thrsh"
	Attack FXParam 2 Attack
	Release FXParam 3 Release "Rel"
	Ratio FXParam 1 Ratio
	Compressor FXParam 19 Bypass "Byp"
	Parallel FXParam 20 Wet
ZoneEnd
Now if we could just find those indices.

Aha, they are right in front of us

It's simply the order they appear.

The first one is 0, the next 1, the next 2, etc.

So you could simply use the index of the dropdown(or something similar) to auto gen the numbers needed for the new format.

I was hoping this duplicates problem wasn't that bad, but we're getting far too many anecdotes this early, better to fix it now and be done with it, what do you think folks ?
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Old 08-07-2019, 05:59 PM   #3814
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Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Well, there is a way to get access to those indexes, but.....

It will require an FXZone format change...

The original thinking was to simplify the file formats as much as possible for the user.

That's why we used FXParam Name.

It'a actually a PITA code wise.

FX don't allow you to query an index unless the FX is live -- that is you have a working instance of it inserted somewhere.

What really happens is the Zone Activation on a particular FX (yay, we have a live one) causes the FXParam name to be used to look up the index, but as you point out it takes the first one it encounters.

Now, I doubt I would mention this if folks had to enter this manually -- too much room for error, but we have an opportunity to fix this now that you've done such great work with the Configurator tool.

Here's what I propose for the new format:

Code:
Zone "VST: ReaComp (Cockos)"
	SelectedTrackNavigator
	Threshold FXParam 0 Thresh "Thrsh"
	Attack FXParam 2 Attack
	Release FXParam 3 Release "Rel"
	Ratio FXParam 1 Ratio
	Compressor FXParam 19 Bypass "Byp"
	Parallel FXParam 20 Wet
ZoneEnd
Now if we could just find those indices.

Aha, they are right in front of us

It's simply the order they appear.

The first one is 0, the next 1, the next 2, etc.

So you could simply use the index of the dropdown(or something similar) to auto gen the numbers needed for the new format.

I was hoping this duplicates problem wasn't that bad, but we're getting far too many anecdotes this early, better to fix it now and be done with it, what do you think folks ?
If it isn't going to be a ton of work for you, I'm happy to change the configurator (and about 200 plugins, third time's the charm)
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Old 08-07-2019, 06:03 PM   #3815
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Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Well, there is a way to get access to those indexes, but.....

It will require an FXZone format change...

The original thinking was to simplify the file formats as much as possible for the user.

That's why we used FXParam Name.

It'a actually a PITA code wise.

FX don't allow you to query an index unless the FX is live -- that is you have a working instance of it inserted somewhere.

What really happens is the Zone Activation on a particular FX (yay, we have a live one) causes the FXParam name to be used to look up the index, but as you point out it takes the first one it encounters.

Now, I doubt I would mention this if folks had to enter this manually -- too much room for error, but we have an opportunity to fix this now that you've done such great work with the Configurator tool.

Here's what I propose for the new format:

Code:
Zone "VST: ReaComp (Cockos)"
	SelectedTrackNavigator
	Threshold FXParam 0 Thresh "Thrsh"
	Attack FXParam 2 Attack
	Release FXParam 3 Release "Rel"
	Ratio FXParam 1 Ratio
	Compressor FXParam 19 Bypass "Byp"
	Parallel FXParam 20 Wet
ZoneEnd
Now if we could just find those indices.

Aha, they are right in front of us

It's simply the order they appear.

The first one is 0, the next 1, the next 2, etc.

So you could simply use the index of the dropdown(or something similar) to auto gen the numbers needed for the new format.

I was hoping this duplicates problem wasn't that bad, but we're getting far too many anecdotes this early, better to fix it now and be done with it, what do you think folks ?
Geoff you are a mind of knowledge and a freaking genius,

MixMonkey just when you thought C4FXconfig was sorted...

I hope it's not going to be a total painITA to add the numeric's?
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Old 08-07-2019, 06:09 PM   #3816
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Originally Posted by MixMonkey View Post
If it isn't going to be a ton of work for you, I'm happy to change the configurator (and about 200 plugins, third time's the charm)
More work for you than me actually

Let's do it !!
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Old 08-07-2019, 06:11 PM   #3817
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Originally Posted by Freex View Post
MixMonkey just when you thought C4FXconfig was sorted...

I hope it's not going to be a total painITA to add the numeric's?


Also, digging the avatar
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Old 08-07-2019, 06:16 PM   #3818
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Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
FX don't allow you to query an index unless the FX is live -- that is you have a working instance of it inserted somewhere.
The indicies are always the same though, right? (every time the same plugin is loaded) and you're sure that they just start at zero with the first name in the FX Param list and increase by one with each parameter? I guess they could be output with the names by FX Param as a check.
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Old 08-07-2019, 06:17 PM   #3819
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There ya' go


Cool, and thanks to @poetnprophet for pointing back to the working implementation.
it is perfect now, thank you thank you!!
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Old 08-07-2019, 06:34 PM   #3820
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Originally Posted by MixMonkey View Post
The indicies are always the same though, right? (every time the same plugin is loaded) and you're sure that they just start at zero with the first name in the FX Param list and increase by one with each parameter? I guess they could be output with the names by FX Param as a check.
Yup, always the same unless the manufacturer changes the FX

Here's the actual code that generates the list:

Code:
for(int j = 0; j < DAW::TrackFX_GetNumParams(track, i); j++)
{
    DAW::TrackFX_GetParamName(track, i, j, fxParamName, sizeof(fxParamName));
    //DAW::ShowConsoleMsg(("\n" + string(fxParamName)).c_str());
    rawFXFile << "\n" + string(fxParamName);
}
As you can see, it is definitely zero based, and definitely index based (j = paramIndex).

Also realized we don't need FX Name anymore.

You just have to output the index and then either the name or the alias, if present.
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Old 08-07-2019, 06:34 PM   #3821
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Originally Posted by poetnprophet View Post
it is perfect now, thank you thank you!!
Thanks for pointing out where to find the working code
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Old 08-07-2019, 06:50 PM   #3822
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Also realized we don't need FX Name anymore.

You just have to output the index and then either the name or the alias, if present.
Just have to tie the name (that the user deals with) to the index that (CSI uses)

Instead of the name that's used at the moment, I propose we use something like:

Code:
1Threshold
2Ratio
3Bypass
4Bypass
This will let users differentiate between identically named parameters. It might entail a bit of trial and error on their part to work out what controls what (I use Patchwork for this as it has a learn mode as well as a list of parameters- very handy plugin)

It means that they'll need to type an alias everytime, but they're probably already doing this anyway (I know I am)
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Old 08-07-2019, 06:59 PM   #3823
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Originally Posted by MixMonkey View Post
Just have to tie the name (that the user deals with) to the index that (CSI uses)

Instead of the name that's used at the moment, I propose we use something like:

Code:
1Threshold
2Ratio
3Bypass
4Bypass
This will let users differentiate between identically named parameters. It might entail a bit of trial and error on their part to work out what controls what (I use Patchwork for this as it has a learn mode as well as a list of parameters- very handy plugin)

It means that they'll need to type an alias everytime, but they're probably already doing this anyway (I know I am)
Don't forget to start at 0

Maybe some parse magic where the entry in the FX params column and the dropdown looks something like "0 - Threshold", but the code logic places "Threshold" in the cell -- with the number stored conveniently somewhere out of site

Bonus prize if they select the mapped cell and the correct cell in the FX list gets selected too (or something like that) to indicate what's what

Also, if you run of things to do , you could add support for an alias for the FX name itself, this will be used for the FXMenu Zone concept we've been discussing...

All of this is already coded at this end, it was almost trivial
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Old 08-07-2019, 07:06 PM   #3824
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Don't forget to start at 0
My bad

Quote:
Maybe some parse magic where the entry in the FX params column and the dropdown looks something like "0 - Threshold", but the code logic places "Threshold" in the cell -- with the number stored conveniently somewhere out of site
I think you're going to need to see the number in the cell, otherwise you won't be able to tell indentically named params from one another
Quote:
Also, if you run of things to do , you could add support for an alias for the FX name itself, this will be used for the FXMenu Zone concept we've been discussing...
How about an alias as the second line in the FX.zon file? If you want to make up a syntax I'll put it in .
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Old 08-07-2019, 07:08 PM   #3825
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All of this is already coded at this end, it was almost trivial
I'll have to start on this tomorrow need to zzzzz.
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Old 08-07-2019, 07:15 PM   #3826
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I think you're going to need to see the number in the cell, otherwise you won't be able to tell indentically named params from one another
OK, but instead of having everyone have to type aliases all the time, put the parsing magic just before output, splitting the string and either putting out the stripped param name (e.g. "Threshold"), or, if present, the alias.


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Originally Posted by MixMonkey View Post
How about an alias as the second line in the FX.zon file? If you want to make up a syntax I'll put it in .
Well it's already coded to work like this (and it is optional):

Code:
    Zone someZoneName someZoneAlias
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Old 08-07-2019, 07:16 PM   #3827
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I'll have to start on this tomorrow need to zzzzz.
Yup, me too, and I think you're 3 hours ahead of me
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Old 08-08-2019, 07:21 AM   #3828
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With the new change coming, both with FX slots and index thingy....will we still have SelectedTrackFX? If so, will we be able to use both?
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Old 08-08-2019, 08:15 AM   #3829
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Originally Posted by poetnprophet View Post
With the new change coming, both with FX slots and index thingy....will we still have SelectedTrackFX? If so, will we be able to use both?
Yes, that's why ToggleMapFX (which really means ToggleMapSelectedTrackFX) was important

There will be a new action ToggleFXMenu.

So, ToggleMapFX and ToggleFXMenu, along MapFocusedTrackFXToWidgets will comprise a very powerful trio
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Old 08-08-2019, 09:32 AM   #3830
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Yes, that's why ToggleMapFX (which really means ToggleMapSelectedTrackFX) was important

There will be a new action ToggleFXMenu.

So, ToggleMapFX and ToggleFXMenu, along MapFocusedTrackFXToWidgets will comprise a very powerful trio
two thumbs up!!
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Old 08-08-2019, 04:02 PM   #3831
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hey Geoff, sorry to report but the new build (compared the the build just before) that fixes the scroll link now makes the mapselectedtrackfx not work very well. First selection will map, next selections doesn't and the displays are not updating. Also sends shows the -150 when you select another track with less sends.

but, if I select on the screen in Reaper, everything updates properly.
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Old 08-08-2019, 04:43 PM   #3832
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hey Geoff, sorry to report but the new build (compared the the build just before) that fixes the scroll link now makes the mapselectedtrackfx not work very well. First selection will map, next selections doesn't and the displays are not updating. Also sends shows the -150 when you select another track with less sends.

but, if I select on the screen in Reaper, everything updates properly.
Thank for testing, fixed -- will be in next build, hopefully tomorrow.

Be warned all FX .zon files will be broken in the next build.

The new format is being worked on by @MixMonkey (YAY), probably as we speak
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Old 08-08-2019, 05:48 PM   #3833
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The new format is being worked on by @MixMonkey (YAY), probably as we speak
Indeed ...and here's the first draft. It's not as robust as I'd like but should do to check the basic functionality. The # and > functionality (remove widget and GoZone) are broken at the moment.

Could you check it out Geoff, and see if it's output ties in with your new format?

Last edited by MixMonkey; 09-11-2019 at 06:23 AM.
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Old 08-08-2019, 05:54 PM   #3834
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NOoooooOOOOoooo! Jk...although I may not get to test for a while, got some work to do.

Will the ZoneRaw files be any good still? Or no. I just started generating them, now I get it. Neat!
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Old 08-08-2019, 05:57 PM   #3835
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Will the ZoneRaw files be any good still? Or no. I just started generating them, now I get it. Neat!
They should be, fingers crossed. The tie up with the index numbers happens in the Configurator, using the same FX Param output.

The old FX.zon files won't work though.
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Old 08-08-2019, 06:12 PM   #3836
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Indeed ...and here's the first draft. It's not as robust as I'd like but should do to check the basic functionality. The # and > functionality (remove widget and GoZone) are broken at the moment.

Could you check it out Geoff, and see if it's output ties in with your new format?
I did a super quick check, all looks good.

I have a few finishing touches to put on FXMenu and will then post a build that will work with these new FX .zon files.

Probably have something tomorrow
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Old 08-08-2019, 06:13 PM   #3837
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I did a super quick check, all looks good.

I have a few finishing touches to put on FXMenu and will then post a build that will work with these new FX .zon files.

Probably have something tomorrow
Cool Let me know if anything needs changing, I'll carry on bug squashing.
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Old 08-08-2019, 11:31 PM   #3838
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Cool Let me know if anything needs changing, I'll carry on bug squashing.
Just wanted to check, Alias, am I going to break anything if i replace the pre-generated (which is a nice touch) with one of my own?

Doesn't seem to , but seeing =IF(ISBLANK..((...........))))) when you double click, could be quite unsettling for some, not me tho, i'll just see if I break it.

Has anything been finalised about the FxNameAlias for FXmenu?
It would seem to me that the Alias should be in the fx Zone file, and that we should be able to decide it within the C4Fxconfig.

Last edited by Freex; 08-09-2019 at 02:22 AM.
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Old 08-09-2019, 03:40 AM   #3839
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Just wanted to check, Alias, am I going to break anything if i replace the pre-generated (which is a nice touch) with one of my own?
Why not just try it, I'm pretty sure it will be fine.

You can look at the generated file and make sure your alias is there.

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Has anything been finalised about the FxNameAlias for FXmenu?
It would seem to me that the Alias should be in the fx Zone file, and that we should be able to decide it within the C4Fxconfig.
Yup, FXMenu is all coded and working here, build will go up soon, a couple of hours or so.

Syntax is:

Code:
Zone someZoneName someZoneAlias
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Old 08-09-2019, 04:17 AM   #3840
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New build is up.

FXMenu is operational, but primitive.

Here's the basic stuff needed:

Code:
Zone Buttons
	Track ToggleMapFXMenu
	Send ToggleMapSends
	Pan ToggleMapFX
        ChannelLeft TrackBank -1
	ChannelRight TrackBank 1
        ...
ZoneEnd

Zone FXMenu|1-4
	SelectedTrackNavigator
	DisplayUpper|  FXNameDisplay |
	RotaryPush| GoFXSlot |
ZoneEnd
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