Reaperton Live type Session View

[memyselfandus]

Vote Here
http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=5090

Here goes ladies and gents.

How about some form of Session type view where we can double click on "cells" and it opens a midi editor for each one but is Separate from the main project view. so you can have lets say ezdrummer on one group of cells and compose and play back each Cell without the main project playing back.and add your drum part variations in each cell and drag each one wherever you want. into the main project.

here is one example showing how it could be used

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlYdxc1LnDI

The first pic here shows how it would look if we had a whole separate page for doing this. it show rows of clips. each rectangle or "clip" can be double clicked and edited via a piano roll and linked to a vst.



the second pic here shows how it would look with just a simple column on the right side of the project view. you could compose parts over here and drag the performances as midi files onto any track.




Vote Here
http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=5090

[airon]

You may want to request this thread be moved to the feature request forum. One of the forum admins will probably do that anyway.

Voted. We have a few of these "Session view" type requests iirc.

[memyselfandus]

crap. thanks airon

[jimmey]

I quite like the idea of a single column. Like a depository for ideas

[DarkStar]

(2) would be an abbreviated Project Bay / Media items view, with Edit added to the context menu?

[jnif]

Session view, like in Ableton Live, would be very useful in Reaper.
This feature request is still a bit vague. Many essential properties of session view are missing.

The session view in Reaper should not be just a fancy matrix style Media Browser / Project bay. It should be much more.

Here are some key properties and features of Session view in Live.

- Non-linear playback:
Independent play cursors on each track (column).
You can start/stop playback of any item in any order at any time.
Any number of tracks (columns) can be playing at the same time.
Only one item at a time can play on each track (column).
- Session view slots can contain looping or one-shot items.
- Automatic syncing of item start to project tempo.
- Many useful item launch settings, https://www.ableton.com/en/manual/launching-clips/
- Recording to any slot while any other slots are playing in other tracks.
- Automatic quantizing of item length when recording into session view slots.
- Launching all items on same row using "Scenes" on the right side of session view.
- Each column has all features of a track: volume, pan, FX chain, routing, metering, grouping to folders, etc.

jnif

[jimmey]

Originally Posted by jnif

Session view, like in Ableton Live, would be very useful in Reaper.
This feature request is still a bit vague. Many essential properties of session view are missing.

The session view in Reaper should not be just a fancy matrix style Media Browser / Project bay. It should be much more.

Here are some key properties and features of Session view in Live.

- Non-linear playback:
Independent play cursors on each track (column).
You can start/stop playback of any item in any order at any time.
Any number of tracks (columns) can be playing at the same time.
Only one item at a time can play on each track (column).
- Session view slots can contain looping or one-shot items.
- Automatic syncing of item start to project tempo.
- Many useful item launch settings, https://www.ableton.com/en/manual/launching-clips/
- Recording to any slot while any other slots are playing in other tracks.
- Automatic quantizing of item length when recording into session view slots.
- Launching all items on same row using "Scenes" on the right side of session view.
- Each column has all features of a track: volume, pan, FX chain, routing, metering, grouping to folders, etc.

jnif

Thats exactly what Ableton offers. If Reaper had this it would probably kill Ableton.

Somehow the request was closed, as this not a new idea. Have the devs ever made a statement to this idea? Because this seems to be a good feature for home recording artist.

[Skel]

To be honest I never knew what its all about. But now I understand the purpose of this feature, thank you

It would be a great addition in my opinion.

[memyselfandus]

Originally Posted by jnif

Session view, like in Ableton Live, would be very useful in Reaper.
This feature request is still a bit vague. Many essential properties of session view are missing.

The session view in Reaper should not be just a fancy matrix style Media Browser / Project bay. It should be much more.

Here are some key properties and features of Session view in Live.

- Non-linear playback:
Independent play cursors on each track (column).
You can start/stop playback of any item in any order at any time.
Any number of tracks (columns) can be playing at the same time.
Only one item at a time can play on each track (column).
- Session view slots can contain looping or one-shot items.
- Automatic syncing of item start to project tempo.
- Many useful item launch settings, https://www.ableton.com/en/manual/launching-clips/
- Recording to any slot while any other slots are playing in other tracks.
- Automatic quantizing of item length when recording into session view slots.
- Launching all items on same row using "Scenes" on the right side of session view.
- Each column has all features of a track: volume, pan, FX chain, routing, metering, grouping to folders, etc.

jnif

I agree! would be AMAZING. but it would still be nice to have a scratch pad area to "start" with.

[memyselfandus]

Originally Posted by Skel

To be honest I never knew what its all about. But now I understand the purpose of this feature, thank you

It would be a great addition in my opinion.

yeah it took me til version 3 or 4 to really "get it" with how ableton live works. took me forever. once I got it it was awesome.

[kineticeon]

I absolutely think this is great idea and was the main purpose of getting onto the form today. I wanted to see if the idea has even crossed the threads yet, and I found it quickly.

Now here is my reasons for agreeing with some sort of sessions mode/screen/add-on:

- Having separate playback control for each take/cell would allow reaper to be more "live" compatible, but this would also mean the midi learn would have to be updated for easier use and control ( maybe a visual midi learn matrix that can be opened via "view"-midi learn matrix, similar to ableton, but less GUI fancy...no need for more CPU usage than necessary).

This is the problem I have ran into, I write/live/breath Reaper for both my engineering,editing, and production. But when it comes to stepping on stage and playing all originals, my options are to export stems and load loops into ableton and use controllers, play via serato, CDJ's, etc. I lose the option to really play my personal material straight from the source.

Once reaper is on the live side of production, it would be a wrecking ball hard to stop. (catch 22 is software price would probably go up, and we might be dropping 3-$400 like most other D.A.W's).

At very least, it would be a nice start, just a start, to get separate playback control on each channel. I know it is easier said than done. which is why the catch 22 above exists. programming and testing is like any other business, time+money.

I just wanted to add my 2 cents in that I would like to use Reaper for all my audio purposes, in the studio and on stage. I would if I could, but I don't want it to be a headache trying to do so....

[Fergler]

The FR was closed due to duplicate request. Please use the search tool

[memyselfandus]

Originally Posted by Fergler

The FR was closed due to duplicate request. Please use the search tool

Yeah. Lots of requests for this type of feature.

[dalim.biswas]

I HATE SESSION VIEW IN SWS RESOURCES I ALWAYS WANT THIS FUNCTION LIKE HELL BUT NOBODY LISTENING HERE .WHEN IT WILL COME STILL VAGUE.EVEN MPL CAN DO THIS WHY REAPER CHOOSE TO SEE OTHER WAY ROUND.I VOTED FOR IT NOW AND ALSO WANT DRUM RACK LIKE ABLETON FOR DRAGGING MY SAMPLES INTO IT FOR CREATING BEAT N MUSIC .

[mschnell]

Making everybody angry by SHOUTING will not help a bit.
-Michael

[EvilDragon]

SWS resources doesn't have a session view, LOL.

Also: https://www.helgoboss.org/projects/playtime/

[vitalker]

Originally Posted by EvilDragon

Also: https://www.helgoboss.org/projects/playtime/

I haven't used Playtime, but the last version is dated 16 April 2018.

[EvilDragon]

Yeah, but it works quite alright regardless.

[operator]

NON-LINEAR WORKSPACE complementing Arrangement-View:

At first people should stop comparing Playtime to a fully integrated Session-View... it is not the same (it´s not!)

Playtime only partially does what a session-view does. With playtime you only get the "performing" aspect of a session-view. And in Playtime one needs to have the audio inside the arrangment-view (as far as I could figure out) to have it in the session-view (this is exactly the behaviour I don´t want).

THE SESSION VIEW SHOULDN`T BE SEEN AS A CLIP-LAUNCHER ONLY... IT`S A COLOR/SOUND PALETTE COMPLEMENTING THE ARRANGMENT-VIEW!

I´m coming from Bitwig and there the session view is at the left of the arranger (both visible at the same time) and this, in my opinion, is the way handling audio or midi in a DAW should work like.... It is sooooo amazing just having the song on the right side of the programm window and on the left side you have a space (non-linear workspace) where you can try out MULTIPLE ideas, store samples, etc... without cluttering up your song.

Imagine a color(sound)-pallete on the side of the arranger where you can store ideas/sketches/takes or just different e.g. gun-shot samples you use on the track throughout the project. The Arrangment-view is the "final product" and on the left you have a space to try out and store media-items, sketches, unused ideas, etc...

I don´t understand how such an AMAZING way of working with audio/midi can be overlooked. Or maybe it just simply doesn´t get more attention just because on first look this seems to be only something for EDM musicians (I assure you this is not the case!!). Every Sounddesigner out there, I will promise you, once you work this way you´ll never want to go back... for Game Sound Design this is really amazing.

This is THE ONE thing I really miss from my Bitwig-Days regarding workflow. I feel very constricted by the linearity of the Arranger/Project Timelime of Reaper... Having everthing (audio samples, midi sketches, ideas) in the arranger is a huge pain in the butt for me!!!

[TonE]

Did you try using FL Studio as vsti, as sampler inside Reaper, using pattern mode there for example, and you would get your session view? There you can try as many ideas as you want, without cluttering up the arrange view, for example. Plus the other million features of FL Studio. 16 stereo outs going to Reaper, perfect enough, I guess.

Ableton and Bitwig, see the daw mainly or originally as a drum machine, pattern oriented workflow, like in Atari ST Notator for example, or FL Studio. Where you can loop infinitely, then muting something here and there. Additionally there are great programs like jeskola buzz tracker which allow such workflow perfectly, and there is lua script based on buzz tracker, called hackey trackey, programmed by genius saike. All worth checking.

But yes, nobody would say no to a bitwig like concept also directly inside Reaper, who knows one day maybe, but if you look at Justin's workflow, using Super8, it looks a bit different, more real-time fun, just recording stuff, looping, directly as audio, mostly. Guitarist workflow or microphonist workflow. I myself did not explore Super8-fun-space yet... keep the ideas flowing here.

[mschnell]

Originally Posted by TonE

But yes, nobody would say no to a bitwig like concept also directly inside Reaper,

... as long as it's purely additional ....
-Michael

[operator]

I can´t say much about FL Studio in Reaper... never tried it. I must say I´m not the biggest fan of FL so this probably is not the best solution for me. But in general it is a good idea.

In my opinion it doesn´t have to be a session view exactly like in Bitwig... Not sure but maybe they could do something in "Reaper style". idk... As long as both workspaces would be visible at the same time... but like I wrote in an earlier post... I´m really missing a "non-linear workspace" that is complementing the arrangement view. It is such a versatile way of working. Crafting ideas, motives,... in a non-linear surrounding (timeline) and as soon as an idea (or several different ones) is worked out, it can be "injected" into the linear timeline of the song in the Arrangement View.

(For non instrumental music producer this is the midi equivalent to jaming with an instrument to the song or figuring out song ideas while playing to a few loops).

This way the song can be crafted sound by sound starting always in the Non-Lin-View and then being built into the song afterward. Also different versions of the idea(s) can be "stored" in the "Non-Lin-View" and the Arrangment can be kept clean. (I don´t know who could say no to this one... wouldn´t everybody prefer storing an unused media item in a place which doesn´t interfering with the arrangement? I don´t like having muted and bypassed items in my arrangement very much. Maybe it is just me. idk

I think (or am certainly sure) that this feature not only would complement sound designers, (electronic) music producers and DJs but recording artists aswell. It is similar to takes... just operating a little bit different and being in a seperate workspace.

And for instrumentalists (guitar player especially) this "Non-Lin-Workspace" also would be benifitial. It is very easy to set up an infinite looping Drum Loop (or even multiple song segments) to jam to. This is also very handy when playing live/performing. And then everything can be recorded into the empty Arrangment view.

This way of working is so incredible joyfull... And only with a very simple addition to reaper it would bring an unproportional great amount of differnt workflows with it. (it goes deeper than one might assume)

I hope the Devs really think about it...

[operator]

When i look at this Videos from Justin... this is exactly what I´m talking about. A "Session View" "Non-Lin-Workspace" or however you call it, is perfect for stuff like that. Back in Bitwig I used the Session-View exactly for stuff like that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8iiVdIGMD4

Every track can have it´s loops with different looplenghts and you can play and record on top of that. Or maybe Play and mute clips/items in the "non-lin-workspace" while the song is going in the Arranger...

This is a non-linear workflow... and if you ask me, often this is the more natural/musical way of working with midi and audio items.

A "session view" a "non-lin-workspace" introduces so much musicality into the typical linear/restricted workflow of a DAW.

[Ozman]

This has been begged for, for a long time. Even Digital Performer has a clip launcher now.
I do like the way that Bitwig's clip launcher can be set to the left of the arranger, and can switch between playing it or the arranger.
One thing that Bitwig doesn't have that Reaper leads in is the Comping system (recording takes). Bitwig's workaround is terrible for such.

Reaper is my favorite DAW. But, man, do I wish that the devs would add a modular/Grid-like JSFX tool (answer to the RS5K, and FX container)
and some non-linear workflow that is not attached to the arrangement (e.g. Session View, Clip Launcher, FL-like Patterns, Reason-like Blocks, Studio One-like Scratch Pad, etc.)

[TonE]

But for audio there is already Super8, why not using that? It has a feature of adding the recorded stuff to arrange, so you can continue recording more, I guess, never tried, but it should be something like that. Justin should know it best, probably, or some other Super8 experts.

hackey trackey uses also non-linear concept, its trick is using some late position (or any actually) for storing those 'patterns'. In the end what bitwig also does is looping something, you can have any region for that, loop there. Recording from that loop (session view) to arrange means only, copying from loop region to another place, normally, end of arrange. Playtime does only this as well, just a simple copying operation, while looping something elsewhere.

Long time ago my suggestion for Reaper was, taking Mixer of Reaper, placing there instead of fx, items, that is a perfect session view for Reaper, replacing fx with items, each item triggerable/loopable separately. Rest of mixer could stay same. Item mixer it could be called. Something like Super8, but built directly into the mixer! We should use terms and languages Justin and schwa can understand, mixer, Super8, items.

[SoutherlyBuster]

Interesting thread and almost reaper versus Live, oh better no go there or should I? Must say I like the work flow of the Session View in Ableton Live for laying down freely without interruption composition ideas. I have been using Reaper for about 2 years, Live for a month or so. I have tried Justins’s Super8 but it is by far not as intuitive as Live’s Session view. Have completed two compositions recently using Ableton Live Session view, non so far using Reaper Super8, but lots of compositions using Reaper. To me this attests to how well Ableton Live Session view is conducive to creativity. Would I switch to Ableton, no, I like both, they compliment each other.

When recording live you need the interface as simple and intuitive as possible to leave your mind free for the creative ideas to flow. Having the clips in session view in a closed black box in Super8 makes it difficult to fine tune start and end of loops, whereas in Live Session View it’s just like an other midi or audio track, all the editing features are the same. All the timing cues you have in Live Session View, especially when dealing with poly rhythms is invaluable to jump in at the right time for the next instrument layer to add. Often my loops have a different number of beats and do not line up on whole bars — this poly rhythm gives it the interest, all this was quite transparent in Ableton Live Session view.

Suspect Justin would need a large amount of quite me time to develop a good live looper. Still a big thanks to Justin putting powerful DAW features into a very affordable product.

[Vagelis]

Well said^^

[deeb]

I would prefer a reaper way (flexibility), something like this:

req: Live Mode Self Recording and API: prepare to play from new position
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=222116

[operator]

https://www.musicradar.com/news/is-l...-and-recording


Now even Logic gets a Clip Launcher... the last DAW I expected to get it...

Come on guys... now it is time to implement it!!! (please)

[Abriel]

Originally Posted by memyselfandus

Vote Here
http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=5090

Here goes ladies and gents.

How about some form of Session type view where we can double click on "cells" and it opens a midi editor for each one but is Separate from the main project view. so you can have lets say ezdrummer on one group of cells and compose and play back each Cell without the main project playing back.and add your drum part variations in each cell and drag each one wherever you want. into the main project.

here is one example showing how it could be used

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlYdxc1LnDI

The first pic here shows how it would look if we had a whole separate page for doing this. it show rows of clips. each rectangle or "clip" can be double clicked and edited via a piano roll and linked to a vst.



the second pic here shows how it would look with just a simple column on the right side of the project view. you could compose parts over here and drag the performances as midi files onto any track.




Vote Here
http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=5090

Add an, 'item list' on the left of the tracks.
This will change what item list is shown depending on what track you have selected.
So the track and track item list is on the left while the right side can switch between track playlist and track session view (w/the track drag N drop from right to left into the track playlist).

[myfeltgood]

Originally Posted by operator

https://www.musicradar.com/news/is-l...-and-recording


Now even Logic gets a Clip Launcher...

It's slick too. That 10.5 update is a game changer.

[operator]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEGgn3y74Dc

ClipLauncher now in Logic!
Look at this video and see how amazing such a Clip/Live/Nonlinear view can be.

[operator]

Originally Posted by myfeltgood

It's slick too. That 10.5 update is a game changer.

This Update (10.5) is mainly geared towards electronic music producers. Damn if I would have a Mac I would go back to Logic...

Come on Reaper... we would like some features geared toward electronic music producers aswell. (e.g. CLip/Live-View, Drag Sample to track --> automaticly create sampler/drum-machine)

And I totally agree, this update is a real game changer.

[mschnell]

Originally Posted by operator

Come on Reaper... we would like some features geared toward electronic music producers aswell.

... as long as it's purely additional ....
-Michael

[SeanTypedThis]

You could also use two instances of REAPER, one linear, one non-linear. I'd do this for recording live shows on a portable instance of reaper while also having my main install open with my performance/fx rack project open.
For me, it also works really well with Playtime for sketching and composing, as I can treat my main instance of REAPER with Playtime and various other samplers/virtual instruments as non-linear, while recording linearly into my second instance of REAPER.

Just route between the two using ReaRoute (or any other virtual audio cable) for audio tracks and loopMIDI (or any other virtual MIDI cable) for MIDI tracks. Can even drag drop items on the timeline between instances using ctrl+alt drag like sharing clips between "Session" and "Arrangement" views.

[carbon]

Have not investigated it yet, but maybe in the meantime Machine plug-in could achieve something similar?
For those that have it, that is.

The non-linear ways seem very attractive to me. Working on a song in the linear timeline gets quickly very messy if you want to test out different parts, sounds, arrangement.
I have some 5min pieces that have hours of small snippets with alternate versions of phrases etc.

[shmuelyosef]

Originally Posted by carbon

Working on a song in the linear timeline gets quickly very messy if you want to test out different parts, sounds, arrangement.
I have some 5min pieces that have hours of small snippets with alternate versions of phrases etc.

This is exactly why i still run Live and use it for compositing, then spin stems out Reaper to refine and mix...im debating at the moment to upgrade to Live 10 so I get the free Live 11

Anybody else use this Compose(Live)->Produce(Reaper) workflow?