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Old 04-20-2013, 07:43 AM   #67
imispgh
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Join Date: Aug 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richie43 View Post
Actually, yes I did try it. Like I said, it's a cool product. But also like I said, when I still had a sub-average mixing environment, I had much better and more consistently balanced mixes using my monitors and the IK ARC system than I did with any of the room emulation approaches with headphones. I realize that this was my specific experience, and always encourage people to find what works best for them. But the VRM did not end up to be what worked best for me.
I get "to each his own" etc.

However I do have to say that your response concerns me. Not so much that you can't be right but because odds are you are not and others, especially the young or inexperienced, can come away thinking somehow your situation is in any way normal or normally acceptable.

At the risk of sounding like an elitist (and possibly turning people off - which is exactly the opposite of what I want to do) I caution people to do their homework. MOST people these days making music, mixing etc listen to crap on crap in crap. They have no actual EXPERIENCE in listening to an actually well recorded song in a properly treated room on proper equipment which has been properly set up. The room treatment by some method being key. If you have never run tests from the listening seat for the usual HORRIBLE situations that occur below 300hz and not treated them or the first order reflection points (comb filtering issues) then you are in no way properly informed. NOW having said this does this mean you will become great at what you do? No. What it does mean is you have an informed reference point.

I strongly suggest people run sweeps or pink noise from their seats, observe the waterfall plot etc and see what their room and set up is really doping. Then do an experiment by creating a filter on your master channel that reverses all the bumps you see (below 300hz) and raises the softer nulls (trying to counter deep nulls can hurt your amp). Try , within reason to get the resulting waveform flat from 30hz up. Also use a mirror to find the first order reflection points and put a blanket of some other absorbing material there temporarily. After you do this listen to your music. Listen to songs that most feel are universally well recorded. (I suggest something from the Trinity Sessions from Cowboy Junkies. The reason is that it is an incredibly well recorded album made in a church. The freq extremes are excellent, every instrument is exceptionally clear, you can hear they are in a church and the imaging is also excellent. By the way this whole album was made with ONE stereo mic and a DAT machine. It shows you how the right set up and equipment with minimal nonsense can do). What you should listen for is the freq extremes, any areas that no longer stick out or are now actually clearer, tightening up of the imaging - side to side and front to back. Again the issue is not that you LIKE what you hear. But that you now know what accurate is. I assure you that most of you will have your eyes (ears) opened and learn something from this. if anyone wants to be talked through it please let me know.(Note-if your monitors are not good this experiment will work but you need to understand you are hearing a relational improvement but NOT an example of how good it can actually be. And by good I do not necessarily mean expensive)

If having done this you understand and want to permanent value of this then you need to consider your budget and space. For bass traps etc are the way to go. However they take up space and are not cheap - even if you make your own. That is because you may need quite a few. The next option is to use a parametric EQ to apply that filter permanently. As a last resort you can keep the master filter but remember to kill it when rendering. Lastly you have to treat all first order reflections. Floor, ceiling, walls to the side and behind. (This is a bit less important if you listen nearfield and those surfaces are somehow far away). Cheap Sonex or similar looking panels will do. Carpets or even thick moving blankets etc can work.

Now on the VRM Box. Again it is far better to use this device than not have the right set up. (Yes you can as stated above still make good mixes but the odds are against you. That would require you are either lucky or educated enough on what things can or are supposed to sound like and the difference between that and your own system. Basically KNOWING your monitors). And again - while the right set up is preferred - using this device is massively to your benefit as a back up check. It is so cheap and gives you so many options it is borderline foolish not to use it. No it is not perfect but it gives you many monitor choices. So many I guaranty that in flipping between them you find something that one of them tells you that you would not find otherwise. And no I am not affiliated with the company.

I also encourage people to play their mixes in cars. (VRM doesn't simulate that). It's a very popular listening environment. Fact is these days if it doesn't sound good on a handheld device or car then to most it is not worth it. But keep in mind each car/system is different. AND they are usually littered with issues like your room. (Run those tests in a car sometime and see how things look. Keep in mind though that the glass is causing a lot of comb filtering issues in the mids and highs you may not see visually)

Lastly Ricjie43 - what didn't you like about the VRM? Did you try all the monitor options? Is it just a general dislike for headphones? (Which I am very sympathetic to. I went out of my way to get a great room to avoid having to use them except as the second reference I referred to). Are you using one of the headphones it was designed for? Like the Sennheiser 280s? Did you mix or listening to any universally known well recorded song not sound great to you on at least one of the choices? (For example I like the Adams). One song that I like to use is Morph the Cat from Donald Fagen. It has extremely wide range - especially that bass. Is it possible that you prefer your set up etc and not the VRM because it is personal taste or you have a hearing issue? (And I mean that seriously. Not being sarcastic. Quite often people how no idea they have a hearing issue or even that their ears could stand a flushing). Because I would suggest that if your system somehow sounds better than ALL of the VRM choices on the right headphones that your personal preference is steering you in the wrong direction. Not for yourself but if you make music or mix for others.

Last edited by imispgh; 04-20-2013 at 07:48 AM.
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