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Old 09-03-2018, 05:38 PM   #1
Robert Randolph
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Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: St. Petersburg, FL
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Default Reaper's take system sucks, but rather than vaguely bitch about it...

Recently on my website I complained about Reaper's take system being complete rubbish. I think complaints are useful, but they don't inspire progress. So instead of "simply complaining", this is a list of the issues that I've had with the take system.

I KNOW that this is not a new thing. I've already gone through the forum, reddit, gearslutz, homerecording.com, and various other forums to read the dozens (my history says hundreds...) of threads complaining about the Reaper take system. (Yes I read this too https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=61936&page=9, every single post).

This system has recently lost me nearly 90 hours of product (which encompassed MANY more hours of recording time). My takes become so messed up that it was easier to re-record everything in another DAW than try to salvage it in Reaper. (This happened because previous takes become switched/moved/deleted during edits in other parts and was not recognized till later. So undo was not an option)

I've seen threads going back to 2009 about these issues, so I'm not particularly hopeful that anything will be fixed. I just hope that I can encourage some discussion and document issues in a somewhat clear and reproducible manner.

I AM NOT INTERESTED IN WORKAROUNDS. I am aware of a lot of workarounds and have a number of scripts I had to write myself to deal with these issues. I don't want to 'work around' things. I want to get work done.

All information is presented with a stock Reaper install on macOS 10.13.6 with SWS and ReaPack installed. All settings are default unless mentioned otherwise.

If anyone would like to mention other issues, I will happily create a short.gif of the issue and add it to the list.


Issue #1 - Take Numbers Incorrect

- All settings default.



When creating a take that is not the same length as the file it is overlapping, the resulting take numbers are incorrect.

As seen in the video, the resulting leading and trailing items list "Take 1/2" despite only having one take.

Issue #2 - Take Switching is inconsistent

- All settings default. This is presented after the steps in Issue #1



With 2 takes, one of which is not the same length as the other, empty takes are created.

Pressing T does not switch between these takes, however you can "Options: Show all takes in lanes (when room)" and then select the takes.

Pressing T again to switch will not cycle between the empty and non-empty takes.

This can cause strange desyncing of takes across a performance. When combined with Issue #4, this can be disasterous!

There is no alternative because in order for takes to cycle between _performances_ you must manually click each take you want, which is similar to using the "Take: Switch items to next take" shortcut and then manually fixing everything.

Issue #3 - Recording over item splits creates splits in takes

- All settings default.



In this scenario I record over an existing take. Then I record over another part, and repeat this a handful of times to extend the total performance.

If decide that the first take was fine, it requires multiple switching of takes with mouse clicks.

Why mouse clicks? This segues to issue #4.

Issue #4 - Switching Multiple overlapping split takes with shortcut is "broken"

- All settings default. Begin with setup from Issue #3.



After recording, assume that I wish to have the original Take 1 back on top.

I first must select all the takes that encompass Take 1, which is error-prone. Then if I press T n-times (where n is the number of takes), it will cycle to the original take.

If I press T to cycle more times, everything becomes de-synced and it is no longer possible to get Take 1 back without manual editing.

Issue #5 - Determining the active empty take is impossible.

- All settings default. Begin with setup from Issue #2 or Issue #3



This is assuming that empty takes should be switched to (see Issue #2).

When "Options: Show all takes in lanes (when room)" is active, the currently active empty take is not visually identified. Only the "Take n/x" indicates this. This makes visually recognizing the current take selection impossible.

Issue #6 - "Options: Show empty take lanes (align takes by recording pass)" creates a mess.

- All settings default except
- OFF Options: Show empty take lanes (align takes by recording pass)



I've seen this suggested as a solution for various issues, however it almost always makes things worse. It becomes impossible to determine which take belongs to which performance and it cycles differently than "Options: Show empty take lanes (align takes by recording pass)" being ON. Similar issue when using "Item: Remove all empty take lanes".

If you turn this on while an empty take is selected, then you end up with an empty take being shown. Now you reach issue #2 again and your take sequence becomes corrupted. A single take switch and now you must manually attempt to re-assemble your take sequence.

Issue #7 - No way to select multiple takes at once

- Settings irrelevant

As the title says. AFAIK there is no way to select multiple takes in items with only a mouse action. If you wish to select a portion of a performance that has been split over multiple items by the take system (or if you created the splits yourself), it make result in dozens of clicks.

Notable workaround: the default command "Take: Activate take under mouse" is assigned to the key 'Y'. You can hold down Y and move your mouse over the takes. I have found that this is somewhat error prone and not as easy to use as the more common 'box select' paradigm used in millions of pieces of software across the world.

Issue #8 - Comps do not load properly depending on "Options: Show all takes in lanes (when room)" state

- All settings default



Here I have 2 comps saved. One with 8 active takes. One with 3 active takes.

If I load these comps with "Options: Show all takes in lanes (when room)" ON then everything works.

If I load these comps with "Options: Show all takes in lanes (when room)" OFF then comps with empty lanes are not loaded correctly. You can see this in the video where Comp 2 loads and results in 8 total items, instead of 3.

Issue #9 - Grouped items that have been split do not cycle correctly

- All settings default

I've started with 2 tracks recorded together. Group the items.

Now attempt to switch takes. Each time I click a new take "lane", takes are picked up from the new lane. I can see this as potentially] useful in some situations, however it means relying on undo to revert to a previous state. There's no way to revert to the previous take sequence without suspending the group and sequencing it yourself.

Of course, if you turn on "Options: Show all takes in lanes (when room)", then everything just turns into Joseph's technicolor dreamcoat.

Last edited by Robert Randolph; 09-03-2018 at 08:33 PM.
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