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Old 08-06-2019, 10:08 AM   #26
audiojunkie
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Originally Posted by mike@overtonedsp View Post
A long time ago I implemented the initial framework for native Linux VST2 support in Ardour. At the time my reasoning was this:
  • There was a wealth of plug-ins available for other OS, most in VST2 format, and most using the JUCE framework (which could already be used to build Linux versions). This would set the bar quite low for porting existing plug-ins and might encourage developers to port to Linux.
  • LV2 was still a bit experimental at the time and little understood by developers. It seemed less likely that developers who had VSTs on other OS would be persuaded to port to a completely different standard (which was unsupported on other OS) and was still evolving.
  • The greater availability of Linux plug-ins for one of the most popular Linux DAWs, at the time, might (I hoped) help greater adoption or at least interest in Linux as an audio platform - possibly more host applications and with it a greater incentive to port plug-ins to Linux etc.
  • No-one else wanted to do it.

I'm not sure to what extent any of this rippled out to other DAWs, developers etc - perhaps not at all - but several years down the line we now have Reaper, Bitwig, Ardour, Tracktion / Waveform, (and probably others I'm not aware of) available for Linux, and a significant number of VSTs available natively for Linux - and DAWs built on Ardour now also have cross-platform support for VST. I'm not sure we could have got there with LV2 alone.
There is definitely truth to what you say. Native VST is definitely my first choice for plug-ins. The real problem that needs to be remedied is the lack of native plugins. I'm really happy to see a variety of DAW options available for Linux. My current discontentment is having to jump through the various hoops to get an adequate number and variety of tools (plugins). I know that one could argue that we already have an adequate number, but I disagree. It all depends on each user and what works for him or her. Personally, I'd love to have a native version of Kontakt. I don't see that happening for a long, long while (if ever). I'm sure there are others that have particular apps that they would like to have on Linux but can't currently. Each person will be different and have different apps that they want.

I think the only way that will happen will be if we cater to the musician in general, and not the computer tech/user musician. I suspect most people interested in making music don't want to spend time learning how to use linux first. We've got to make the Linux music-making experience as easy as possible, to entice more users. With a larger support base, more developers will be interested. As more developers are interested, the base will continue to grow.

Maybe LV2 isn't the route for that, maybe it's Native VST. But if it is, we've got to entice more developers to develop for Linux (as was mentioned above), and many, many more users to choose Linux over Microsoft or Apple. :-) How do we do that?

I think there are several ways that will help, but there are only some of those ways that we have any control over. Here are some ideas over all that could entice users:

-- Make the entire music-making experience (including tool availability) as easy as, or easier than Microsoft and Apple for the musician

-- Make cross-platform development tools as easy as setting a switch to cross compile binaries

-- Make documentation abundant, well written, and up-to-date

-- Be a welcoming and helpful community


I think as far as the Reaper goes, there is a great welcoming and helpful community. In fact, there are several communities that are great. I think we are all doing well in that area.

Documentation (including Linux in general), is a total and complete mixed bag. Occasional parts are documented very well and kept current. A lot of documentation hasn't been updated since the 2.x kernel days, and it no longer reflects Linux or the current state. A lot of things have no documentation at all. I think that we as a community can definitely assist in this area through constantly updating and maintaining well written and up-to-date documentation. There are noble efforts going on amongst even our very community, and I applaud the Herculean efforts that have been made. But I think we all have a responsibility (if we have the knowledge and understanding) to help those who know less than us, through documentation, if we really want things to succeed.

As far as development goes, that is a deep dark realm where only the wizards, warlocks and magical geniuses reside, I could never presume to imagine how hard it must be to write all of these tools! All of you developers have my absolute respect!! I VERY SERIOUSLY doubt that it is even close to being as easy to cross compile the musical tools we need by just setting a switch in the software. It's probably impossible, but it is a dream worth wishing for, and hopefully as tools improve, it will become little by little easier to accomplish the cross compilation of linux binaries.

As far as making the entire music-making experience (including tool availability) as easy as, or easier than Microsoft and Apple for the musician--I think that is a goal that everyone should work toward, and I don't think it will ever be any one thing. This goal will be composed of countless little things--things that every one of use can do to help improve the experience of others. Be creative. :-)

Overall, this entire thread has me realizing that the Linux music-making experience is much more complicated than just the adding of LV2 to the host (although it may still be worth the effort for the developer to support). It has opened questions to me that I don't know the answers to--What is the best plugin format for Linux plug-in development? (VST or LV2) Should plugin developers write plugins for both standards? Should hosts support all of the standards? Etc. etc. etc.

I don't know the answers to any of this.

The only thing I know is that I want to use Linux and I want to have an experience as good or better than Microsoft or Apple users someday. I want to help in whatever way I can. :-)



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Last edited by audiojunkie; 08-06-2019 at 10:18 AM. Reason: Intentions not clear.
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