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Strange behaviour with sends and SiF Issue Tools
issueid=1972 02-04-2010 05:57 AM
Human being with feelings
Strange behaviour with sends and SiF

For example, you have a kick and a bass. You send the kick to the bass channel thru 3/4 to do some sidechaining compression.
If you do a SiF of the kick you won't hear the bass. It happens when a channel has a send from the other one. For any reason the bass channel is not muted but the bass item seem to be. It happens when you send things thru 1/2 too.
Issue Details
Issue Type Closed Issue
Project Deprecated REAPER issue tracker
Category Audio recording and playback
Status Fixed
Priority 5 - Medium
Affected Version 3.22
Closed Version 3.3
Yes votes 0
No votes 1
Assigned Users (none)
Tags (none)

02-04-2010 06:17 AM
Moderator
 
That's expected. If you send a track thru 3/4 and use SiP on it you'll just hear the solo'ed track, not the one that's receiving. Now if you send a track thru 1/2 and use SiP you should be able to hear it thru both tracks: the one with the items and the one that's receiving. This is normal behaviour.

NOTE: What you describe is the normal behavior if you use SiP on the track that's receiving (unless you're using 3/4 on your send).
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02-04-2010 05:52 PM
Human being with feelings
 
My bad, I wrote SiP instead of SiF. So the problem is with SiF, when you should be able to hear the bass item (dimmed) but you don't if you have a send to that channel from the channel you are doing the SiF.

Sorry for my typo. I'll edit the title.
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02-04-2010 05:53 PM
Human being with feelings
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spyrow
Sorry for my typo. I'll edit the title.

Hmm.. it seems I can't.
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02-05-2010 04:32 AM
Human being with feelings
 
I'll try to explain it better:

You have kick, bass and hihat.
You do SiF (solo in front) of the kick. You still hear the bass and the hihat (dimmed).
You create a send from the kick channel to the bass channel. You do a SiF of the kick again. You hear the kick at its volume, the hihat dimmed, but you don't hear the bass anymore.

Please, change it back to open bug.
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02-05-2010 01:43 PM
Super Moderator (no feelings)
 
SiF has nothing to do with this at all I guess. If you SiP a sending track, you will hear the signal from the receiving track (audio is being sent through plugins on that track for example), but not media on this receiving track. Media gets muted and hence a VSTi won't get MIDI data anymore.

The problem is, I have no idea if that's intended or not. However, if you just want to SiF the kick track, hold ALT while clicking solo to override SiP and all 3 tracks will be there, one soloed and the other dimmed.
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02-05-2010 05:13 PM
Human being with feelings
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steindork
SiF has nothing to do with this at all I guess.
It has. The bug is when you use SiF. When you use SiP it works as intended.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steindork
If you SiP a sending track, you will hear the signal from the receiving track (audio is being sent through plugins on that track for example), but not media on this receiving track. Media gets muted and hence a VSTi won't get MIDI data anymore.
That's ok. I have no problems when using SiP (solo in place).

I'll try to explain the problem again:

You have two tracks. You want to do a SiF (SOLO IN FRONT). You do a solo in channel 1, you hear channel 2 dimmed. Now you do a send from 1 to 2. Now you do a solo in channel 1 again but you don't hear the media in channel 2 anymore.
Is clear like that?
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02-05-2010 05:15 PM
Human being with feelings
 
Ok, I just saw the status changed to "Confirmed". Thanks and sorry again for my typo in the title (which led to a little mess understanding the bug).
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02-05-2010 05:52 PM
Super Moderator (no feelings)
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spyrow
It has. The bug is when you use SiF. When you use SiP it works as intended.
They are not mutual exclusive. SiF only playes otherwise muted tracks "dimmed", regardless of the solo mode.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spyrow
You have two tracks. You want to do a SiF (SOLO IN FRONT). You do a solo in channel 1, you hear channel 2 dimmed. Now you do a send from 1 to 2. Now you do a solo in channel 1 again but you don't hear the media in channel 2 anymore.
Is clear like that?
Sure but that happens independent of SiF or not. Turn SiF off and solo (in place) channel 1. You still don't hear media from channel 2. Or do you?
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02-06-2010 05:03 AM
Human being with feelings
 
I think you don't understand what SiF does.
SiP mutes non-soloed tracks.
SiF dims non-soloed tracks.

If you have a send from one track to another and you do a SiF in the sender the receiver item media get muted (instead of only dimmed). That's the bug.
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02-06-2010 07:03 AM
Super Moderator (no feelings)
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spyrow
SiP mutes non-soloed tracks.
Half wrong. Create a send to an FX bus/reverb track (from a track that has something to send on it of course). Now solo-in-place the sending track. Repeat with 'normal' (pre-fader/pre-send )solo. Does the light come on now?

You can't "do a SiF" as it is not a solo mode (as in "where in the signal flow the solo signal gets tapped") but a global setting on the amount of muting of the other tracks. Unlike 'normal' solo, SiP includes the receiving track into the solo but not the track media. If you do a normal solo, your specific issue doesn't exist.

Whether or not the receiving track should play track media on it in SiP is the question that came up in the coarse of the confusion here. But this is probably not an issue either, all you have to do is to solo the right (the receiving) track.
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02-06-2010 08:13 AM
Human being with feelings
 
I don't know why you keep talking about SiP. SiP works well. I have no complains using SiP.

My complain is with SiF. When you work with a project with lots of sidechain you can't use SiF because many of the media get muted instead of dimmed.

I'm not going to lose more time here talking about this, I think it's clear enough and I hope they fix it soon.
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02-06-2010 08:46 AM
Administrator
 
I think I understand the ambiguity. Currently "in-place solo" has precedence over "solo in front": if you have both enabled, tracks that do not pass through an in-place solo do not get heard at all, and everything else is dimmed. The request is for solo in front to have precedence: tracks that pass through an in-place solo are all played full volume, and everything else is dimmed.

Is that correct?
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02-06-2010 11:14 AM
Human being with feelings
 
I think you got it... and I think I now begin to understand what Steindork was trying to say me with all the SiP talk. SiF is not a third solo mode, but something dependent of SiP.

The issue, anyway, is there.
Imagine you are working with a kick a bass and a hihat.
You do a solo-in-front in the kick and you hear the bass and hihat dimmed.
If you create a send from the kick to the bass to do a sidechaining (for example, something very typical) you can't use solo in front anymore because you won't hear the bass anymore (unless you don't have in-place selected in prefs, that's right) but you do hear the hihat dimmed, so it's only the channels you have a send. For a normal solo-in-front behaviour you should be able to hear the dimmed bass too when you solo the kick, no matter if it has a send or not.

So there's a conflict there. If you can solve it then great, if not, knowing this, we can always turn off solo-in-place in these cases.
But if you use normal solo then your reverb will get dimmed too and you won't hear the kick sound like you do in the mix but... maybe there's not perfect solution for this.
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This petition for a change to Fixed was accepted
02-09-2010 01:37 PM
Human being with feelings
 
FIXED (3.23rc3)
02-10-2010 03:49 AM
Human being with feelings
 
thanks buddies!
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