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Automation Items Issue Tools
issueid=121 06-16-2009 03:56 PM
Human being with feelings
Automation Items
A speculative idea for an evolution of the automation system

the idea is for automation envelopes to be housed in items: "automation items". they could be copied and pasted / have multiple takes / be muted, stretched, grouped etc. just as audio and midi items are.

automation items could be joined to audio or midi clips, or not, on a per-item basis.

there are plenty of tricky bits to the idea: what happens at the edges of items - are points added when they are split etc ...

but the basic idea of leveraging all the cool per-item actions that we have to be able to act on sections of automation seems like it could be powerful and flexible...

I think that having dedicated automation items is better than having automation live in existing audio or midi clips as things could get screwy in FIPM mode or when playing all takes etc etc. And automation items as described above should be more or less as convenient.

----------------------- Edit by DarkStar
[New] Discussion thread:

http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=68790
Issue Details
Issue Type Elevated FR
Project Deprecated REAPER issue tracker
Category Editing behavior
Status Popular Request
Priority 5 - Medium
Suggested Version 3.04
Implemented Version (none)
Users who would use this feature 318
Users who would not use this feature 3
Assigned Users (none)
Tags (none)

06-16-2009 06:13 PM
Human being with feelings
 
Great idea, spelled out once again. Perhaps this is a good way to manage multiple passes of automation, and advanced stuff like Preview modes.
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06-17-2009 04:15 AM
Human being with feelings
 
+1 for item automation, an absolute must have.

In logic 8, you have an option to send the track automations to the midi clips, very handy as you can after edit the automation datas in the midi clip, the automation datas are also linked to the clip.
You can even do the contrary, send the automation datas from the midi clip to the track automation.

Note also : in Logic8, the track automations can be linked to the clip (audio + midi) and be copied at the same time.
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06-17-2009 05:14 AM
Human being with feelings
 
For me, this is absolutely essential. I make (and always have made) absolutely minimal use of automation in REAPER (and the DAW with which I previously had most experience, Cubase), simply because it's an absolute nightmare to manage it.

This is particularly true for the sort-of loopy projects I'm often working on, where lots of parts can be expected to repeat, then repeat with slight changes, etc.

Needless to say, automation items, like our desires for audio items, should be "ghostable"/capable of existing as "shared copies"!

Thanks.
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07-04-2009 03:30 AM
Human being with feelings
 
I worked on a song yesterday with lot of automation, and remembered those issues. Just wanna give devs a hint that if reaper will have automation items, it will solve and make much-much easier lot of stuffs like:
* Copy envelopes when copying items
and even...
* Loop automation
* Automation Ripple
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07-04-2009 01:56 PM
Human being with feelings
 
Quote:
For me, this is absolutely essential. I make (and always have made) absolutely minimal use of automation in REAPER (and the DAW with which I previously had most experience, Cubase), simply because it's an absolute nightmare to manage it.
I can say exactly the same thing !
The problem with automation items is how to link them to audio items. Podium does it in its "hierarchic" manner, but it is rather restricting since when moving items.
I have managed in Reaper to use MIDI items with control change datas to automate plugins, which is far from being perfect, but partialy solves the problem of linking envelopes to plugins parameters.
The Logic way is elegant and efficient and could be perhaps a good model for automation items ?
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07-19-2009 04:46 AM
Human being with feelings
 
One interesting consequences would be that we could handle data in automation lanes like items, but how would that fit with selecting and editing the automation itself ?

The editing functions are great, but how is this going to fit in ?

One idea is to have a global automation-item mode. To edit automation disengage the automation-item mode and it's like it is now. Engage it, and automation cannot be edited directly but only handled as items.
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07-23-2009 06:43 PM
Human being with feelings
 
Just wanted to re-mention that this would give us very cool things like multiple takes, time stretching, easy copying and saving for later use, reversing? ;)

Just in case someone skips to the end! ;)
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07-24-2009 04:59 AM
Human being with feelings
 
+1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000.

Seriously. Mentioned before many times, but we'll keep on asking for it until we get it. :P

Ideally one should be able to use the same automation (in clips) for sending values to several outputs, should be able to send both MIDI (CC#, aftertouch, pitch bender, and *notes* too) and VST(i)/AU(i) parameters, and should have user configurable scaling and GUI display values.

Once this will happen, I will finally begin to take Reaper seriously as a sequencer / music production tool / live performance tool (as opposed to audio recording / mixing / playback tool) as well. Something I have been hoping for ever since I started using Reaper.
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07-25-2009 03:47 AM
Human being with feelings
 
Maybe that is a good way to copy automation between lanes very quickly.

You could look at automation on a per-envelope level and simply copy the automation items between the envelope tracks.

Automation items of envelope lanes would be auto-grouped per plugin, which would be important for keeping parameter sets together.

Complicated stuff.
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11-16-2010 04:43 AM
Human being with feelings
 
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