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MIDI editor: show the whole track as one instance Issue Tools
issueid=3178 01-12-2011 11:31 AM
Human being with feelings
MIDI editor: show the whole track as one instance
The midi editor should have an option to show the whole track as one editable instance without switching between the reuse items.

When opening the MIDI editor, at the moment only one MIDI item is shown for editing. With the reuse option it is possible to move to other items by clicking that item in the track view.
My suggestion would be: create an option that the MIDI editor shows the whole MIDI track as one instance. Here you can scroll through the whole bunch of MIDI data without the need of switching between the single items. That would be a real improvment for the MIDI guys, like me.
If you need an example for my suggestion, just have a look at the piano roll of Sonar X1 or Tracktion.
I really hope this will make it into a future version of Reaper!
Issue Details
Issue Type Closed Issue
Project Deprecated REAPER issue tracker
Category Editing behavior
Status Duplicate
Priority 1 - Highest
Affected Version 3.73
Closed Version (none)
Yes votes 59
No votes 0
Assigned Users (none)
Tags (none)

01-19-2011 01:18 AM
Human being with feelings
 
You want it? Please vote!
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01-19-2011 02:08 AM
Human being with feelings
 
Boy I hope this is getting a lot of votes. Only jus tnoticed it on the waty to somewhere else.....
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01-25-2011 01:25 PM
Human being with feelings
 
Some additional information is needed to this FR.
It is diffucult to understand how this works, at least for those users who have not used Sonar or Tracktion. So, please explain your proposal in more detail.

What happens if you already have multiple items on single track? Are those items glued automatically before opening MIDI editor? (Probably a bad idea.)

If separate items are allowed on same track and you add/remove/move/copy/modify notes in the midi editor, then how does user and Reaper know which item is being edited?

Why this FR is limited to a case where ONE TRACK is shown as one instance in MIDI editor? Why not show ALL TRACKS as one instance?

Related MIDI editor FRs have been discussed quite a lot already under topics like "multi track/item MIDI editing". How is this FR related to those FRs? I have a feeling that implementing this FR would be only a partial solution. It might be good to discuss how this proposal fits to the big picture.


jnif
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01-26-2011 02:11 AM
Human being with feelings
 
Ok, maybe it is not easy to understand what this FR exactly wants. Let me give you an idea what this is all about.

Multiple MIDI items on a track: yes, that is the case normally. So the improved MIDI editor (let's call it "IME") can show all the MIDI items as separated items in one instance. You can scroll through the whole track of MIDI items in the IME without the need to re-click every neighboured item - that's how it is done now with the re-use function. The items are NOT glued, of course. They are not altered in any way. They are just shown together in one instance of the IME.

If you add one note in the IME the appropriate item is automatically selected. One possibility would be to show the items bordes/structures in the IME. So you are able to see in which item you are currently working in. There is no need for item manipulation as this can be done in the track view.
This FR is limited to the abbility to acces ONE track only in the IME. In my opinion, a multiple track editor would by a bit confusing.

Of course, this FR is not the ultimate solution. But it would be an improvement in any way. The current editor is so exhausting when composing a MIDI track. I am sure the devs will find a way to improve the MIDI editor so that Reaper gets even better! :)
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01-26-2011 03:50 AM
Human being with feelings
 
I suggested something similar here: http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=2739

Perhaps this can even be considered a duplicate of my request.
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01-26-2011 03:57 AM
Human being with feelings
 
Oh, that's definitely the same as my request. Wasn't really aware that this has been discussed already for so long.
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01-31-2011 12:57 AM
Human being with feelings
 
I suppose the real answer to this is a glue/unglue button so that the various MIDI items can be temporarily joined to facilitate whole-track editing and then returned to their original state. Not sure how difficult the math would be to allow Reaper to keep track of all the various clips when they are edited though.
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01-31-2011 01:18 AM
Human being with feelings
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ivansc
I suppose the real answer to this is a glue/unglue button so that the various MIDI items can be temporarily joined to facilitate whole-track editing and then returned to their original state. Not sure how difficult the math would be to allow Reaper to keep track of all the various clips when they are edited though.
No. Just to glue and unglue the items is not the real answer. It should technically be not too complicated to realize this FR as other DAWs can also handle their MIDI items like this. The positions of the MIDI items should be known within the DAW, so it would be possible to show the different items in the editor.
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01-31-2011 02:12 AM
Human being with feelings
 
The problem lies in the overlaps of midi items.

Multiple takes can be handled with a dropdown menu above the piano roll edtor for example, that shows the take for the area you've currently clicked in to or have selected a note in.

The overlaps need special treatment, and the midi editor still needs to somehow indicate which item is being edited. I suggest that clicks in the non-overlapping areas determine that, and that the range that the midi item covers is somehow visually indicated, perhaps as it has been so far. And there needs to be a slight buffer at the ends of the midi item you're currently editing, so you do cannot accidentally select another midi item to place notes in, just because you clicked a pixel or two in to that items area in influence. In other words, to change midi item focus the user needs to click a little more outside the current item being edited than necessary, IF they overlap.

Expanding this across several tracks will simply need some kind of palette of note colours that represent the different tracks. The user needs an easy way to pick one, and the easiest way for that is probably a track list, though I'd love to know what Sonar does here, since quite a few composers seem to like its midi editor a lot.
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02-01-2011 10:28 AM
Human being with feelings
 
Okay sloppy wording on my part. I am used to all MIDI is in one continuous take & you can affect any area or the whol esimultaneously.
reaper`s system of takes does not allow this.
What I meant by glue/unglue button was glue/unglue EVERYTHING in a track.
Provided the overlaps are shown either by partial ghosting or maybe different colors for different takes this should do what is necessary.
The main problem here as I see it is that it is a right rotyal pain in the a$$ to have to keep swapping items or takes or whatever just to edit ONE MIDI track.
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02-02-2011 03:42 PM
Human being with feelings
 
so this is a way to take an "Item"(really just a group of midi data)
and select it and paste it into one midi track.(I used mouse copy/paste to clarify my actions)
really easy to do. now, you can select a 500 bar item like I did before you enter your midi data, but thats a pain when working with many midi tracks.

see here:
https://stash.reaper.fm/7828/4.gif

now its one long midi item, and you can insert groups of midi noes anywhere you want.

overlapping could be fixed by defining the note borders better.
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02-03-2011 12:51 AM
Human being with feelings
 
Of course, handling the whole MIDI track in one MIDI item is one way. But that is not the way I prefer. However, if there will be no improvement of the MIDI editor, I can think of editing this way with additional markers to indicate changes of verse, refrain, etc.
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02-03-2011 01:37 AM
Human being with feelings
 
bennisix going to have a play with your method later. Thanks for the input.

Crisis. Yes, but this FR is ABOUT handling MIDI that way.
Just because it wouldn`t suit your workflow doesn`t make it any less valid for those requesting it. I for one hate to break from what I am editing to go to the next marker.
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02-03-2011 01:44 AM
Human being with feelings
 
No, this FR is about showing all MIDI items of one track within one instance of the MIDI editor without the need to "re-use" the neighboured items.
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02-03-2011 05:01 AM
Human being with feelings
 
Can we still mark it as a duplicate of my older request?
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02-03-2011 05:07 AM
Human being with feelings
 
Yes, we can.
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02-11-2011 11:50 PM
Human being with feelings
 
(grin) and maybe if we all vote for/post in BOTH the devs will think there are more of us!
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