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05-23-2017, 08:27 AM
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#1
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: South, UK
Posts: 14,214
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v5.50pre10 - May 23 2017
+ FX: fix undo behavior with TCP parameters and learn [p=1845984]
# Automation items: fix inconsistent behavior when collecting points [p=1846667]
# Automation items: fix moving automation items across tracks when moving media items [p=1846674
# Automation items: only apply "edits affect other pooled items" for items with the same start and end times [p=1846646]
# Envelopes: add action to reduce points by half within time selection
# VST3: fix setContextInfoValue(kPan)
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note: don't search for my pseudonym on the web. The "musicbynumbers" you find is not me or the name I use for my own music.
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05-23-2017, 05:14 PM
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#2
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 12,769
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OMG can't wait to test env point time selection reduction! Thanks in advance fantastic devs!
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05-23-2017, 09:19 PM
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#3
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 7,570
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"add action to reduce points by half within time selection"
I've never used actions to reduce envelope points before. What am I missing out on?
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05-24-2017, 04:20 AM
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#4
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 12,769
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This works perfectly. Thanks Devs !!
@EpicSounds
When you draw an envelope, it often shotguns a ton of points. This lets you reduce them to what you might have wanted.
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05-24-2017, 05:45 AM
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#5
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 798
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If you like to manipulate the envelopes by hand after you've drawn them, these actions make it more manageable to do so
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05-24-2017, 06:25 AM
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#6
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: St. Petersburg, FL
Posts: 880
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I didn't find any bugs in the first hour of using it today...
We're getting closer!
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05-24-2017, 06:51 AM
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#7
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 24,790
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Waiting on Embass to post something...
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05-24-2017, 09:14 AM
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#8
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Kalispell
Posts: 14,745
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Quote:
"add action to reduce points by half within time selection"
I've never used actions to reduce envelope points before. What am I missing out on?
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In the midi editor, if the CCs accumulate to a large number, it can start to slow the computer down.
I supose it's the same for the envelope points?
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05-24-2017, 10:02 AM
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#9
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: South, UK
Posts: 14,214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Randolph
I didn't find any bugs in the first hour of using it today...
We're getting closer!
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That's a fantastic sign!
__________________
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note: don't search for my pseudonym on the web. The "musicbynumbers" you find is not me or the name I use for my own music.
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05-24-2017, 10:16 AM
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#10
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: South, UK
Posts: 14,214
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Bug. Drag copying audio item with AIs selected doesn't move AIs
I spoke to soon!
This is a crucial use case for a lot of sound design that was working and isn't anymore so maybe I've managed to break something?
I've got "move envelope with media items off" but if I try and selected an audio item and say 2 AI items (on the same track) that are longer than the audio item and then copy drag them.
Either:
1. only one of the 2 AI items copies along with the audio item.
or
2. The audio item copies but the AIs duplicate and then stay in place/overlap instead of copying to the new dragged location.
Overhanging automation and being able to copy it easy is definitely a big one for sound design and my favourite feature here so unless I'm doing something wrong, I think this needs looking at before release
Also, being able to group AI to normal items so they edit and act as one is something I hope will come at some point too (I think it was mentioned by Schwa but I might be dreaming it!)
EDIT: moving doesn't work either, not just copying. Even tried putting the envelopes on the same track (no lanes) and selecting it all but moving the audio item leaves the AIs behind
__________________
subproject FRs click here
note: don't search for my pseudonym on the web. The "musicbynumbers" you find is not me or the name I use for my own music.
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05-25-2017, 10:40 AM
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#11
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: ASU`ogacihC
Posts: 3,913
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Sorry if dumb question, Is this the expected behavior/rule?
AI that extend past item get cropped at item end.
AI that extend past item Do Not get cropped when inside Time Selection.
Thanks!
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05-25-2017, 11:31 AM
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#12
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 24,790
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I think it could be, yeah.
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05-25-2017, 01:08 PM
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#13
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Florence, Italy
Posts: 463
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I need a way to draw envelopes only on time selection avoiding drawing envelope out of it in the first pre-record measures during recording.
Is there a way to do so with this automation clips?
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05-26-2017, 04:14 AM
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#14
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Administrator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: NY
Posts: 15,750
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edgemeal
Is this the expected behavior/rule?
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That is by design, yes.
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05-26-2017, 04:17 AM
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#15
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Administrator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: NY
Posts: 15,750
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DANIELE
I need a way to draw envelopes only on time selection avoiding drawing envelope out of it in the first pre-record measures during recording.
Is there a way to do so with this automation clips?
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If I'm understanding the request correctly, yes:
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05-26-2017, 06:43 AM
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#17
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: St. Petersburg, FL
Posts: 880
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AIs switch lanes when undoing after paste
- Create AI
- Copy
- Paste a sequence of them butted end-to-end
- Undo
Also note that there's quite a few scenarios where AIs seem to randomly change lanes when undoing. I'll try to find my old report of this.
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05-26-2017, 06:44 AM
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#18
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: St. Petersburg, FL
Posts: 880
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05-26-2017, 06:49 AM
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#20
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: St. Petersburg, FL
Posts: 880
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http://forum.cockos.com/showpost.php...6&postcount=43
This happens fairly frequently to me. Despite the simple example in that post, it seems to happen fairly regularly when 'normally editing' AIs just due to the nature of looping/moving points.
Seems like post #18 in this thread is related?
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05-26-2017, 06:59 AM
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#21
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 794
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Randolph
http://forum.cockos.com/showpost.php...6&postcount=43
This happens fairly frequently to me. Despite the simple example in that post, it seems to happen fairly regularly when 'normally editing' AIs just due to the nature of looping/moving points.
Seems like post #18 in this thread is related?
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re this post and post 18:
Honestly I much prefer this new behavior (point that doesn't go beyond the next/previous point), since many times I just try to do vertical adjustments to points and accidentally if they are very close, I go past another point and have the envelope completely screwed...
I think there was even a request about it from another user
g
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05-26-2017, 07:14 AM
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#22
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 5,207
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3 days and still no post from Embass. I think it's almos ready.
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05-26-2017, 08:14 AM
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#23
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: London
Posts: 1,211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Randolph
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I agree, I noticed that when working on a project yesterday. I prefer by far the old behavior.
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05-26-2017, 08:24 AM
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#24
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Florence, Italy
Posts: 463
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa
If I'm understanding the request correctly, yes:
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Yes!! This is what I need!!
Finally, a great improvement in automation recording.
Actually I have to be very careful not to touch the slider or not to breathe in the breath controller until the play cursor is in the time selection for the first recording cycle.
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05-26-2017, 01:04 PM
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#25
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: St. Petersburg, FL
Posts: 880
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gianfini
re this post and post 18:
Honestly I much prefer this new behavior (point that doesn't go beyond the next/previous point), since many times I just try to do vertical adjustments to points and accidentally if they are very close, I go past another point and have the envelope completely screwed...
I think there was even a request about it from another user
g
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The problem is that you end up with points that are totally immovable (or barely moveable). They can't be moved left or right at all. It's not too difficult to work around after you spend a few minutes figuring out WTF is happening.
The better solution is to have a mouse modifier that just lets you snap to nearby points or limit horizontal, instead of always limiting motion like this.
The request that you're speaking of I think is ovnis, starting at post 65 here: http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=191557
Except there's nothing in the changelogs about this changing.
Last edited by Robert Randolph; 05-26-2017 at 01:10 PM.
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05-27-2017, 12:31 AM
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#26
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 794
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Randolph
The problem is that you end up with points that are totally immovable (or barely moveable). They can't be moved left or right at all. It's not too difficult to work around after you spend a few minutes figuring out WTF is happening.
The better solution is to have a mouse modifier that just lets you snap to nearby points or limit horizontal, instead of always limiting motion like this.
The request that you're speaking of I think is ovnis, starting at post 65 here: http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=191557
Except there's nothing in the changelogs about this changing.
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Yes I agree, having it as an option or mouse modifier would be perfect. Kind of "move point (can go past next point)" and "move point (can't go past next point)".
Nevertheless if I'm forced to choose either one or the other, I prefer this behavior.
Please devs can you make it optional?
g
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05-27-2017, 04:03 AM
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#27
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 604
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+1111
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05-28-2017, 09:17 AM
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#28
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,111
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Bugs and unexpected behaviour with automation items:
1. Cursor drawing bug when inserting AI using keyboard shortcut.
2. Two overlapping points inserted at the start of AI. Is this by design? It feels confusing.
3. "Delete point" does not work in popup menu. Mouse modifier works.
Sorry if these have been reported already. I have just started testing and did not read all old bug reports.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Randolph
The better solution is to have a mouse modifier that just lets you snap to nearby points or limit horizontal, instead of always limiting motion like this.
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Is it possible to edit existing envelope points only vertically like MIDI CCs in this example?
jnif
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05-29-2017, 12:16 PM
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#29
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,111
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Is gluing an automation item supposed to work like this?
I'm trying to use a workflow where I use only item based automation. But the glue behaviour shown above makes it difficult. I think it would be better if glue would not add any points to the underlying (non-AI) track envelope.
jnif
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05-29-2017, 01:18 PM
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#30
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: St. Petersburg, FL
Posts: 880
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jnif
Is gluing an automation item supposed to work like this?
I'm trying to use a workflow where I use only item based automation. But the glue behaviour shown above makes it difficult. I think it would be better if glue would not add any points to the underlying (non-AI) track envelope.
jnif
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The way your AI is working overall in that image is totally different than how it works here normally.
There's something else happening. It seems like your points are outside the AI, not inside it.
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05-29-2017, 01:28 PM
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#31
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: St. Petersburg, FL
Posts: 880
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Toggling off automation looping with can change the envelope in an unwanted manner.
- Create AI
- Set Shape to Parametric
- Toggle Loop off
I suppose it's because the 'next point' is actually at the beginning of the AI, not the end. When the loop is removed there's nothing for it to ramp to.
However, it still can create some issues when toggling a loop off since the shape changes.
It also happens without LFO shapes.
I had this cause an issue today after unlooping then gluing an AI. It was rather confusing since I didn't notice right away that unlooping made me 'lose' a point.
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05-29-2017, 02:01 PM
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#32
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Randolph
The way your AI is working overall in that image is totally different than how it works here normally.
There's something else happening. It seems like your points are outside the AI, not inside it.
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AFAIK the points (before glue) are not outside the AI.
I have just changed the preference in "Editing Behavior / Automation / Connect to underlying envelope on:" to "Right side".
jnif
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05-30-2017, 04:58 AM
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#33
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Administrator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: NY
Posts: 15,750
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jnif
AFAIK the points (before glue) are not outside the AI.
I have just changed the preference in "Editing Behavior / Automation / Connect to underlying envelope on:" to "Right side".
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This behavior should be improved in the next build.
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05-30-2017, 06:17 AM
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#34
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Florence, Italy
Posts: 463
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa
This behavior should be improved in the next build.
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Any news about the articulation mapper?
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05-30-2017, 06:21 AM
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#35
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Administrator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: NY
Posts: 15,750
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DANIELE
Any news about the articulation mapper?
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Unfortunately, that feature is indefinitely on hold.
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05-30-2017, 06:45 AM
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#36
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: South, UK
Posts: 14,214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa
Unfortunately, that feature is indefinitely on hold.
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Very sad to hear that.. was really looking forward to the massive improvements it would have made to work flow.
Even a basic version of it would have been a big help to dealing with orchestration (which is more and more common these days).
Any particular reason why that you can/would want to share?
Maybe there's a work around for these issues or a compromise that could still get it done as it seemed to be going well.
Could it be opened up for discussion in the other thread?
__________________
subproject FRs click here
note: don't search for my pseudonym on the web. The "musicbynumbers" you find is not me or the name I use for my own music.
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05-30-2017, 07:15 AM
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#37
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 24,790
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa
Unfortunately, that feature is indefinitely on hold.
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So basically you guys lost all interest in making it nice and usable visually (it worked just fine with the current text method, but composers wouldn't want to deal with all that, mostly - that's why GUI editing of artic maps is so important) and support the working composer area of the market who can't stand Cubase & co? Not nice news at all...
Some reasons would definitely be great to know about why. Huge opportunity missed.
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05-30-2017, 07:42 AM
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#38
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Administrator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: NY
Posts: 15,750
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I would estimate that the articulation mapping feature is 60% complete at the infrastructure level and 0% complete at the UI level. The work that was done is on hold until we have the development resources to complete it. It will likely be a v6 feature.
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05-30-2017, 07:45 AM
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#39
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 24,790
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That sounds more encouraging than "indefinitely on hold"!
(Also, it kinda DOES make sense to make it a major version feature...)
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05-30-2017, 08:22 AM
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#40
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: South, UK
Posts: 14,214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa
I would estimate that the articulation mapping feature is 60% complete at the infrastructure level and 0% complete at the UI level. The work that was done is on hold until we have the development resources to complete it. It will likely be a v6 feature.
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That's definitely better to hear than indefinite phew..
What about releasing it as a feature you can enable (via config text file) as it is so that people who don't mind no ui can still use it and test it?
That might help to save time with later development of it too since the infrastructure side can can get redefined more before the UI sits on top of that.
__________________
subproject FRs click here
note: don't search for my pseudonym on the web. The "musicbynumbers" you find is not me or the name I use for my own music.
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