Old 03-05-2007, 10:13 PM   #1
lttoler
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Default Reaper latency problem

I have been using reaper about a month but only for mixing. IO cant record because of the latency problem. I just got a new Dell pc with the standard soundcard. What should I do to fix this problem. Thanks!!
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Old 03-05-2007, 10:22 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by lttoler View Post
I have been using reaper about a month but only for mixing. IO cant record because of the latency problem. I just got a new Dell pc with the standard soundcard. What should I do to fix this problem. Thanks!!
The latency problem is not REAPER (in fact, REAPER seems to do better with latency than most other apps).

The problem is you need to get yourself a proper recording sound card (believe me, it will be more convenient and it will sound better as well).

The other option, until you get a proper recording sound card, is to download ASIO4ALL (google it, and you shall find!), which is a generic low latency ASIO driver that will work with all sound cards.
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Old 03-05-2007, 10:30 PM   #3
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What would be a good soundcard for me to get. If i get a Line 6 Toneport will I still need a new soundcard?
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Old 03-05-2007, 10:42 PM   #4
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i have a presonus firestudio... it all depends on what you wish to do with it... something with USB or firewire seems to be pretty low latency... i hear PCI cards are better but i'm not sure. my firestudio is almost no latency with a 2.8ghz dell 512mb ram running 8 simultaneous inputs...
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Old 03-05-2007, 11:20 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by lttoler View Post
What would be a good soundcard for me to get. If i get a Line 6 Toneport will I still need a new soundcard?
I have a toneport and it's good for recording guitar and other audio. It has no midi input. If you want to record midi I would suggest looking around. I use an audigy card by creative labs for midi stuff. It's decent and cheap. There are alot better cards though. I'm happy for the time being with the toneport and Audigy card. In the future I will probably upgrade. It all depends on what you want to record. Asio 4 all is a good suggestion to for getting the best out of the card you have right now. It was written for that purpose and it works pretty well. I have it installed to and use it sometimes.
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Old 03-06-2007, 09:22 AM   #6
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I have the same problem with my Creamware-soundcard, and It works fine in Sonar. That's why I think it's a Reaper-related problem and not a problem with my soundcard.
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Old 03-06-2007, 09:25 AM   #7
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As said, be sure to install the ASIO4all driver in the meantime. Download it here: http://www.asio4all.com/
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Old 03-06-2007, 09:30 AM   #8
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Sure, but I do not wish to use ASIO. It doesn't explain why it works fine in other applications either.
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Old 03-06-2007, 09:57 AM   #9
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Sure, but I do not wish to use ASIO. It doesn't explain why it works fine in other applications either.
I have sonar 5 and reaper. Both work fine here. If you don't want to use Asio drivers, use WDM. You can get pretty low latency with those. Another thing to check is your buffer settings. You can lower them tho achieve lower latency. I believe they're set to 516 samples 46 miliseconds by default. Just curious. What is your issue with Asio drivers? They work great for me in both sonar and reaper.
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Old 03-06-2007, 10:04 AM   #10
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I have no problem with ASIO, it's just that it's too hard on my CPU. I use WDM-drivers, and yes, I can get a very low latency. The problem is when I import another audio-file and want to record something, then the recorded sound is ~.5-1 second behind the imported audio. I've played around with the latency-compensation, but it's hard for me to find the exact amount of samples.
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Old 03-06-2007, 10:22 AM   #11
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I have no problem with ASIO, it's just that it's too hard on my CPU. I use WDM-drivers, and yes, I can get a very low latency. The problem is when I import another audio-file and want to record something, then the recorded sound is ~.5-1 second behind the imported audio. I've played around with the latency-compensation, but it's hard for me to find the exact amount of samples.

Gotcha. That makes sense. I haven't run into that but I'll play around to see if I can reproduce it with my WDM drivers when I get home. Hopefully someone else will chime in to help. That would definitely a problem.
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Old 03-06-2007, 10:45 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nuthinbuttrubl89 View Post
i have a presonus firestudio... it all depends on what you wish to do with it... something with USB or firewire seems to be pretty low latency... i hear PCI cards are better but i'm not sure. my firestudio is almost no latency with a 2.8ghz dell 512mb ram running 8 simultaneous inputs...
atm PCI cards are certainly better than firewire or USB... but between those two i would choose firewire, something about USB not being as suitable for audio as firewire, something about burst rate speeds, or something....
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Old 03-06-2007, 11:09 AM   #13
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Default latency

Excactly Jason, USB soundcards are not suitable: they cause "less or equal IRQ" driver probs, even my onboard sound with asio4all works better, i agree that pci cards are more suitable like Audiophile, and other M-Audio stuff
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Old 03-06-2007, 11:48 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by 3mph View Post
I have no problem with ASIO, it's just that it's too hard on my CPU. I use WDM-drivers, and yes, I can get a very low latency. The problem is when I import another audio-file and want to record something, then the recorded sound is ~.5-1 second behind the imported audio. I've played around with the latency-compensation, but it's hard for me to find the exact amount of samples.
AFAIR it´s only the ASIO driver that latency compensate the in/output in reaper.

But i don´t remember the creamwarecards to create more cpu overhead in ASIO than in WDM, i used to have 2 of them, and did alot of tests.
Have you tested it with the same amount of in and outputs avaible in both WDM and ASIO?
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Old 03-06-2007, 01:22 PM   #15
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I cant see asio using more cpu than WDM
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Old 03-06-2007, 01:35 PM   #16
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I cant see asio using more cpu than WDM
If anything, the opposite should be true. ASIO bypasses the Windows Kernel by design. WDM theoretically would use more CPU I think...

D
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Old 03-06-2007, 01:37 PM   #17
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If anything, the opposite should be true. ASIO bypasses the Windows Kernel by design. WDM theoretically would use more CPU I think...
If anything they should both equate to about the same thing taking place..

however ASIO as an API is an easier one to support since it makes certain things (like selecting I/O etc) easier. as well as reporting of latency, too.
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Old 03-06-2007, 01:39 PM   #18
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Cool. Thanks Justin. Learn something new everyday!

D

PS Without going too far over my head... (won't take much) can you explain why ASIO4ALL appears to improve performance on some machines? I mean it just encapsulates the existing WDM driver right?

Last edited by Diogenes; 03-06-2007 at 01:41 PM.
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Old 03-06-2007, 02:55 PM   #19
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Default Sample offset

Try importing (or recording) a kick or snare track - record the output of that into a new track, then set your timeline to "samples" and zoom in real close on both. You should be able to determine the sample offset between the two tracks that way by lining up the edit cursor at the starting point of the kick hits on each track. The difference in samples between the two should be your latency compensation setting. (I hope i got that right - i'm fighting a bad flu and am heavily dosed on Tylenol Flu meds. I'm floating away in lala land as i type.) ; ]

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3mph View Post
I have no problem with ASIO, it's just that it's too hard on my CPU. I use WDM-drivers, and yes, I can get a very low latency. The problem is when I import another audio-file and want to record something, then the recorded sound is ~.5-1 second behind the imported audio. I've played around with the latency-compensation, but it's hard for me to find the exact amount of samples.
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Old 03-06-2007, 02:56 PM   #20
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IS it possible that maybe you found higher CPU overhead using it with Sonar, and are now carrying that assumption over to Reaper, without having checked it first?

I've not used Sonar myself, but, if I'm not mistaken, Sonar was initially optimised for DX drivers, and then only added ASIO compatibility in the last few years? Perhaps this is something more unique to Sonar, rather than being true of most other apps that have always been set up for ASIO?

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Old 03-06-2007, 03:03 PM   #21
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Sonar has had ASIO support as far back as at least Version 3. That's as far back as I ever messed around with Sonar. I have Sonar 4 LE now but seldom use it for anything.

D
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Old 03-06-2007, 05:45 PM   #22
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Sonar's asio support though has been attrocious, I dont know sonar 6 but certainly up to sonar five you were MUCH better off using WDM in many cases
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Old 03-07-2007, 12:48 AM   #23
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Maybe I'm just plain silly, but I can't see how any of your suggestions and explanations can explain what is happening in Reaper. The recording-latency appears in Reaper with WDM-drivers, not in Sonar - that's the problem. From my point of view it would prevent some future users to use Reaper out-of-the-box.

I think it's the same problem Ittoler reported in the inital post.
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Old 03-07-2007, 01:14 AM   #24
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Give up :-)
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Old 03-07-2007, 05:16 AM   #25
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Trolling or not, I feel it's a problem worth looking into.
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Old 03-07-2007, 05:58 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by 3mph View Post
Maybe I'm just plain silly, but I can't see how any of your suggestions and explanations can explain what is happening in Reaper. The recording-latency appears in Reaper with WDM-drivers, not in Sonar - that's the problem. From my point of view it would prevent some future users to use Reaper out-of-the-box.
Have you even bothered to TRY using ASIO drivers with REAPER? Or are you just carrying over assumptions from Sonar and refusing to try ASIO on the basis of your personal past experiences that are most likely unique to Sonar?

If I'm not mistaken, Sonar is rather unique in being set up for low latency with WDM drivers. Most of the other applications use ASIO drivers for lowest latency performance.

Also, I think Justin already explained that ASIO is easier to support than low latency with WDM drivers. He seems pretty sharp with this stuff, that Justin . . . I'd expect him to know a thing or three about the subject.

Further, since every audio interface meant for recording supports low latency ASIO drivers, and ASIO4ALL takes care of any other sound cards that don't have ASIO drivers, why would anyone get a crinkle in their shorts because they don't get low latency with WDM drivers? What's the point, as long as you have something available to you that DOES work well?
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Old 03-07-2007, 06:22 AM   #27
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I agree that you have to try things before you critisize them. I think ASIO4ALL is a valuable project for those who can't get things to work with the drivers supplied with their soundcard. I'm satisfied with the way my ASIO-drivers works with my soundcard (the Luna-drivers was great and now SFP gives even more routing-possibilities). I can get very low latency (>7ms) with Reaper with either WDM or ASIO, so I don't see high latency as a problem.

This kind of latecny is different - it's something that happen in Reaper (as gregh said, on my setup) when recording. It's not during playback or streaming, it's when I want to record in "sync" with the timeline so to speak. When I hit "record" the things that get in to Reaper is not in sync with the rest of the project. It means that I can't used the timeline or the played audio as a reference. The recorded audio is delayed a lot (as described earlier)

Hey, I'm just trying to help making Reaper a better program for all to use - also the future users. I'm describing a problem I have with Reaper, but maybe my poor english (I'm from Denmark) make things sound different.. I don't know..
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Old 03-07-2007, 06:34 AM   #28
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I think Billybk gave some useful help above.

Once you know the number of samples involved, you can adjust the setting in Options/Prefs/Audio/Recording (there is a manual adjustment there is the auto adjustment is not close enough).
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Old 03-07-2007, 07:05 AM   #29
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Ah . . . sorry 3mph . . . I did misunderstand what you were talking about.

Your post probably should be in a different thread, though, since you are talking about something different than the original poster of this thread was asking about.
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Old 03-07-2007, 11:33 AM   #30
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I tried ASIO and it seemed to help some but not enough for me to record. I get about a 1/2-1 second delay.
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Old 03-07-2007, 11:47 AM   #31
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what latency do you have the asio system set up for?
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Old 03-07-2007, 01:02 PM   #32
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Default Best to stay away from USB 1.1 interfaces...

Quote:
Originally Posted by lttoler View Post
What would be a good soundcard for me to get. If i get a Line 6 Toneport will I still need a new soundcard?
My experience with USB interfaces has generally been negative, with few exceptions (my Zoom H4 for instance). If you have a free PCI slot, consider that 1st (M-Audio's Audiophile 2496 is a pretty safe bet) or Firewire interfaces..(the Audiophile 2496 is available in a Firewire flavour). I mention these two because I'm assuming you want to keep your outlay at the low end....you can spend more of course....
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